Building a Snowcave

SkiBumOfVT · 03-11-2007, 05:03 PM

So everyone I was wondering how to build a snowcave, I'm thinking about spending a night ontop of the mountain and then skiing down in the morning. Anyone want to help me out with this? are there basic ones? advanced ones?

**idiot** · 03-11-2007, 05:05 PM

there is a mountaineering book called freedom of the hills....good read

**GheePup** · 03-11-2007, 05:13 PM

Find a good bank of snow with a safe snow pack. Grab your shovel and go to town. What is so hard about that?

SkiBumOfVT · 03-11-2007, 05:23 PM

Originally Posted by GheePup

Find a good bank of snow with a safe snow pack. Grab your shovel and go to town. What is so hard about that?

oh sorry for some reason I thought to make a snow cave you use a saw or something sorry about all the trouble

**Powow** · 03-11-2007, 05:31 PM

Only a few things to know:

Keep the top of the door lower than the floor, to keep heat in
Make sure the walls slope downward, ie shape it like a dome, otherwise you'll get dripped on
Poke a hole near the top so condensation doesn't build up

Bring a noseplug because I've heard they can stink like hell.

**summit** · 03-11-2007, 05:31 PM

I'd make sure that mountain top had a sufficient snow depth and quality for a cave before you commit to it... you might try staying in a snow cave at a lower altitude first.

don't forget to make woopty-do on the entrance, smooth and slant the walls, make a vent hole, and t mark off on the surface the area of your cave (so that nobody stomps on your roof)

ETA: I've never spent the night in any cave I've built... yet...

**snowburns** · 03-11-2007, 05:34 PM

you get wet (digging), bring extra clothes

**dang** · 03-11-2007, 06:00 PM

building a snow cave sucks.
It's fun when you're just goofing around and can go back to your house and change clothes, but in the backcountry it should be used as a complete last resort.
It takes a very long time to dig something that you can comfortably fit in, and you get completely soaked and exhausted in the building process. Expect 2-3 hours of digging. This might sound like a lot, but when you're cramped up inside the beginnings of the cave, you can't move much snow. Plus, you continually have to get in/out of the cave in order to remove the snow you are shovelling.

Bring a tent.
If you're interested in going lightweight, then just bring a tarp and dig yourself a snow trench (about 1 million times easier than a snowcave.)

**MOHSHSIHd** · 03-11-2007, 06:02 PM

Slept on one once near Hoosier Pass, it sucked balls...

it you dont make the ceiling high enough or slanted enough you will get dripped on all night....found out the hard way

**Wiilbert** · 03-11-2007, 06:05 PM

I'll second the nomination for 'Freedom of the Hills', at $30 it's a cheap price to pay for the mountaineer's bible. Mike and Allen's Winter Camping book also has some good advice for this.

I heard about a group that went missing back home a few months ago. Seems they were on a week long traverse and didn't show up. Their snow cave had collapsed on them somewhere in the middle. For me, not only is it a fuckton of work, but I wouldn't sleep a wink due to being so scared (but, I have issues with claustrophobia). I'd recommend a tent, or a trench as mentioned.

**fixiewrek** · 03-11-2007, 06:16 PM

To add a different opinion, I've built many and slept in more and have had some awesome experiences. It is a lot of work and doesn't leave much time for other stuff, but 2 to 3 hours makes a pretty good home. Some tips...
- Keep the cave floor higher than the entrance as noted.
- If time is a factor, you can dig out smaller leg tunnels and have a smaller cave overall.
- Smooth out the top as much as you can, this will prevent dripping.
- Carve out a little notch for some votive candles. Great light and ambience and ices the walls over a little.
- Keep a shovel inside in case the entry way fills up.
- Don't cook inside!
- Find a good slope to do it on with enough snow.
- Mark your cave and destroy it when you leave.
- You will be working hard so some dry clothes are nice, but all dependent on your sweat level and what kind of clothes you are wearing.

Other than that, get out there and dig. Freedom of the Hill is good and Mike and Al's backcountry book has some good info as well.

**Free Range Lobster** · 03-11-2007, 06:21 PM

You have never been a kid in a reasonably (or used to be) snowy region huh?

**summit** · 03-11-2007, 06:29 PM

i just needed an excuse to post this...

G · 03-11-2007, 06:41 PM

Originally Posted by dang

Bring a tent.

Believe everything Dang said.

Bring a tarp. Dig trench. Lay skis & branches across trench. lay tarp over it all. cover it with snow. sleep happy.

Try to keep the door low. Bring an extra sleeping pad and a warm dog. bring candles. If you flop around alot while sleeping, bring another small tarp to cover your bunk. build your bunk up off the floor a bit. Read your new copy of "freedom of the hills" while you're laying in the sleeping bag. Bring a warm thermos to place in sleeping bag. Bring a piss bottle. Dont mix the two up. Just don't freeze to death.

**Dug** · 03-11-2007, 07:57 PM

Originally Posted by Geoff

Bring a piss bottle.

Worth repeating.

**snowburns** · 03-11-2007, 08:27 PM

Originally Posted by Dug

Worth repeating.

With a snow cave you dont need a piss bottle, just roll on your side, unzip your bag, whip it out and let it flow. Sure beats the fine art of trying to piss in a bottle in your bag.

They'are also hella-warmer than a tent (obviously above freezing when the snow melts on you).

Also, nobody has mentioned it, but take your ski pole and punch the basket through the top of the cave to create a vent hole.

**BenWA** · 03-11-2007, 08:55 PM

Another thing, build your sleeping platform on a bench that is elevated a foot or two off the floor, the cold air will sink to the floor and youll be slightly warmer that way.

**Dug** · 03-11-2007, 09:48 PM

Originally Posted by snowburns

With a snow cave you dont need a piss bottle, just roll on your side, unzip your bag, whip it out and let it flow. Sure beats the fine art of trying to piss in a bottle in your bag.

I dunno, I piss in the bottle first and then pour it out an arms length away. Sure beats rolling on it during the night.

**LeeLau** · 03-11-2007, 11:18 PM

Snow caves are fun and not that hard to build. Good discussion here http://bb.nsmb.com/showthread.php?t=...light=snowcave

**jrosendahl** · 03-12-2007, 09:18 AM

I just got back from my first overnight in a snow cave. Here is what I learned:'

They are very comfortable
I got soaked while building it - bring one or even two extra pairs of gloves
It is dificult to dry anything that gets wet - try as hard as possible to stay dry.
don't worry about keeping the entrance small at first - the snow you move out can re-shrink the entrance.

It was a good night - we made sure on the first go that the next day was going to be very nice. I think that contributed to the plesantnesws greatly.

**edg** · 03-12-2007, 09:34 AM

Build a two level slit trench (the lower level to act as a cold sink, the upper level as a sleeping bench), place tarp over top (bury edges in the snow). If on a sufficiently steep slope you can also punch a hole through from the cold sink to allow the cold air to escape more quickly.

Using the tarp is much easier than either digging a cave, or using wind slab to build a roof.

edg

**soylent green** · 03-12-2007, 09:35 AM

A coupla candles on some homemade snow shelves seems to have a decent effect on the inside temperature. Make sure to pack out the wax. I have never used an air hole in the roof. You just don't need it and the warm air is lost right out the roof.

**Tye 1on** · 03-12-2007, 09:38 AM

Second the trench. Or third, whatever.

**skibee** · 03-12-2007, 09:53 AM

If you are basing your votes for trench on the Wapta Icefields tragedy in January mentioned earlier I would like to point out that they were using a trench on flat ground... very experienced folks and just had some bad luck, roof caved in. Flat roofs have less strength than a curved roof, think dome like a church only much smaller.

If you have a dry snow pack... go cave, if you have wet snow (stronger) go with an improvised trench/ pine bough thingie.

Take a probe to find a deep spot to dig, nothing sucks more than digging into a boulder half way through and having to start over.

Look for a good windrift with no avalanche hazard above... nuff said.

No wind drift... make a big pile of snow and dig into that... let it set up for 1/2 hour before digging.

have fun.

B

Oh yeah, I used to teach snowcaving to army folks... I have slept in around 40, coldest night I had was a trench when we didn't have enough snow to dig caves... heli ski guiding was a much better gig.

**edg** · 03-12-2007, 10:04 AM

Originally Posted by skibee

If you are basing your votes for trench on the Wapta Icefields tragedy in January mentioned earlier I would like to point out that they were using a trench on flat ground... very experienced folks and just had some bad luck, roof caved in. Flat roofs have less strength than a curved roof, think dome like a church only much smaller.

If you have a dry snow pack... go cave, if you have wet snow (stronger) go with an improvised trench/ pine bough thingie.

Take a probe to find a deep spot to dig, nothing sucks more than digging into a boulder half way through and having to start over.

Look for a good windrift with no avalanche hazard above... nuff said.

No wind drift... make a big pile of snow and dig into that... let it set up for 1/2 hour before digging.

have fun.

B

Oh yeah, I used to teach snowcaving to army folks... I have slept in around 40, coldest night I had was a trench when we didn't have enough snow to dig caves... heli ski guiding was a much better gig.

Did you use anything as a roof on your trench, out of interest? (Branches or tarp or whatever?)

edg