[NSR] At What Price?

[The Reverend Floater]

At what price will GW Bush fund his campaign? The man has done many, many things that have pissed me off, but this last move enrages me to the point that I'm literally in a bad mood and pretty much furious:

"It's as sick as people who stole things out of the place," said Firefighter Tommy Fee of Queens Rescue Squad 270. "The image of firefighters at ground zero should not be used for this stuff, for politics."

What sort of arrogance leads this sociopathic fuckhead to use images from one of our country's greatest tragedies in order to pump fear and insecurities into the American people?

Nothing short of unreal. I'd give my salary for the next 5 years for one oppotunity to pimp-slap this bitch.

Goddamn it!

KERRY IN '04! KERRY IN '04!

[KQ]

Well you and I (and every other American) paid for his NASCAR glad handing under the guise it was an "official trip." So the answer is "as far as he needs to no matter what."

As I said in the post I just resurected (in which I posted the article you speak of) It seems they just don't get "it."

IMHO - They appear to be so emotionally stunted that it causes them to see things in a distorted light. It's as if they are incapable of real emotion and to see the depth of the tragedy on a level that regular people do.

[CaddyDaddy77]

CNN) -- A deadline extension for the commission investigating the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks took a major step toward becoming law Wednesday when the House of Representatives approved a 60-day extension.

The voice vote on the House floor followed Senate passage of the extension last week. President Bush is expected to sign it into law.

But a key sticking point remains: commission access to Bush and Vice President Dick Cheney.

The White House has offered the commission chairman and vice chairman -- former New Jersey Gov. Thomas Kean, a Republican, and former Indiana congressman Lee Hamilton, a Democrat -- an opportunity to sit down for one hour, separately, with Bush and Cheney.

"We have decided the arrangement is not good enough at this point." said Tim Roemer, a Democrat and former Indiana congressman who is a member of the 10-member bipartisan panel, known formally as the National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States.

"Getting the facts won't kill us, but not getting them might. We need to make sure we get all the facts and write the definitive story. These are certainly the most important people we'll talk to during this investigation," he said in a telephone interview.

Former President Bill Clinton and Vice President Al Gore have agreed to meet the whole commission for as much time as it needs.

"We need to have fair and full cooperation, not separate and unequal cooperation from the two administrations," Roemer said.

Al Felzenberg, a spokesman for the commission, stressed that the White House offer was not rejected.

"It is still under discussion," he said. "We continue to hope that the president will reconsider and meet with the entire commission."

Public versus private testimony
Commission members also want National Security Advisor Condoleezza Rice to be among the witnesses at the panel's eighth and final public hearing, scheduled for March 23 and March 24 in Washington.

Secretary of State Colin Powell and Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld are on the witness list, as are their predecessors, Madeleine Albright and William Cohen, and Rice's predecessor, Sandy Berger.

Rice met privately with the commission for four hours last month.

"Personally, I think Condi Rice would make a very fine witness for the administration, but if they prefer not to have her testify in public, that's their choice," said James Thompson, a Republican former Illinois governor who is a commission member.

No national security adviser has testified in public before a legislative commission, according to Thompson.

"I understand the concern of the Bush White House. They are trying to protect the prerogatives of the presidency, not just for President Bush but future presidents, and that is a legitimate concern," he said.

By all accounts the commission, created by an act of Congress in November 2002, got off to a slow start. Its original chairman and vice chairman bowed out, the commissioners needed to get national security clearances, and there were delays in obtaining documents from executive agencies.

Critics accused the White House, which initially opposed the formation of the commission, of stonewalling. But Thompson said, "We now have every single document we have requested and every single document we need."

Threat information
However, Roemer, who served on the House Select Intelligence Committee, said the commission's success in obtaining redacted copies of the President's Daily Brief (PDB), a CIA-prepared threat assessment, was mishandled.

The commission's chairman and vice chairman have seen only paragraphs focused on terrorism and al Qaeda.

"The commission, I think, erred in asking for the wrong type of information," Roemer said. "I don't know when you pick a paragraph or two from a 12-page document over a four- to six-year period how that informs you as to what the president was warned about ahead of time, or how the intelligence community prioritized this threat of al Qaeda."

"If the Bush administration wants to be able to say at the end of the day that they didn't have sufficient warning leading into 9/11, then they should let us see the PDBs and let all 10 commissioners see them," he said.

The White House-supported extension was initially blocked by House Speaker Dennis Hastert, who said he did not want the report coming out in July instead of May because releasing later in the election year could make it "a political football."

Hastert also said he wanted Congress to obtain the commission's recommendations for fixing security breaches made evident in the attacks as early as possible.

But under pressure from some victims' families and lawmakers, Hastert agreed to the extension on Friday.

July 26 will be the commission's new deadline to report on all aspects of the attacks, including government responses. The commission then will have an additional 30 days to close down its operations.

[vinzclortho]

I too think it's bullshit and wrong...


but I just wanted to point out that Caddy's avatar combined with the news report pretty much makes him the coolest. ....or at least he gives the illusion of a very business-like monster wearing glasses reporting news that you can believe...like a young Tom Brokaw...before he did all that mescaline and shot those endangered condors.

[CaddyDaddy77]

Originally posted by vinzclortho
I too think it's bullshit and wrong...


but I just wanted to point out that Caddy's avatar combined with the news report pretty much makes him the coolest. ....or at least he gives the illusion of a very business-like monster wearing glasses reporting news that you can believe...like a young Tom Brokaw...before he did all that mescaline and shot those endangered condors.

Wow, that's flattering. I just thought that was the only one that showed how much of a dork I am. Don't have glasses but I'm working on the haircut.
Mescaline check
Condors, do Vultures count??

[KQ]

Here's a riddle for you -

Take away 9/11 and what does Bush have to stand on politically?

[natty dread]

That motherfucker. How dare the shrub use images of firefighters at ground zero to promote his campaign when he has done nothing but cut fire department budgets across the country since 9/11. The heroism of the 343 FDNY guys who died in those buildings has nothing to do with this asshole who is our president or his agenda. As both a citizen and a professional firefighter (IAFF local 43), I'm completely fucking outraged. His failure to fund the FIRE act is particularly inexcuseable.

NEW BUSH ADS USE OF FIRE FIGHTER IMAGES SMACK OF POLITICAL OPPORTUNISM

As Bush Trades on Heroism of Fire Fighters, His Homeland Security Funding Cuts Hurt Fire Fighters and Communities

WASHINGTON, DC – The General President of the International Association of Fire Fighters, AFL-CIO (IAFF), Harold Schaitberger, issued the following statement today after President Bush unveiled new political ads that use images of fire fighters in September 11, 2001 attacks for political gain.

“I’m disappointed but not surprised that the President would try to trade on the heroism of those fire fighters in the September 11 attacks. The use of 9/11 images are hypocrisy at its worst. Here’s a President that initially opposed the creation of the Department of Homeland Security and now uses its first anniversary as cause to promote his re-election. Here is a President that proposed two budgets with no funding for FIRE Act grants and still plays on the image of America’s bravest. His advertisements are disgraceful.

“Bush is calling on the biggest disaster in our country’s history, and indeed in the history of the fire service, to win sympathy for his campaign. Since the attacks, Bush has been using images of himself putting his arm around a retired FDNY fire fighter on the pile of rubble at ground zero. But for two and a half years he has basically shortchanged fire fighters and the safety of our homeland by not providing fire fighters the resources needed to do the job that America deserves.

“The fact is Bush’s actions have resulted in fire stations closing in communities around the country. Two-thirds of America’s fire departments remain under-staffed because Bush is failing to enforce a new law that was passed with bipartisan support in Congress that would put more fire fighters in our communities. President Bush’s budget proposes to cut Homeland Security Department funding for first responders by $700 million for next year and cuts funding for the FIRE Act, a grant program that helps fire departments fund equipment needs, 33% by $250 million. In addition, state and local programs for homeland security purposes were reduced $200 million.

“We’re going to be aggressive and vocal in our efforts to ensure that the citizens of this country know about Bush’s poor record on protecting their safety and providing for the needs of the people who are supposed to respond in an emergency.”

About the International Association of Fire Fighters

The International Association of Fire Fighters, headquartered in Washington, DC, is the 16th largest union among the 64 national unions that makeup the AFL-CIO. The IAFF represents more than 263,000 full-time professional fire fighters and emergency medical personnel who protect 80 percent of the nation’s population. More than 2,900 affiliates and their members protect nearly 6,000 communities in every state in the Unites States and every province in Canada.

[lemon boy]

[Cynics PSA]
This is getting you guys outraged? :shrug: Who really didn't expect him to "use" 911 for political gain?

Matchbook on a bonfire
fart in the wind

Politics as usual.
[/CPSA]

[KQ]

Originally posted by lemon boy
[Cynics PSA]
This is getting you guys outraged? :shrug: Who really didn't expect him to "use" 911 for political gain?

Matchbook on a bonfire
fart in the wind

Politics as usual.
[/CPSA]

To quote my favorite bumpersticker:

If you're not outraged - you're not paying attention


"Politics as usual" is the problem - we need to hold ALL of them accountable and make OUR voice heard.

[Buster Highmen]

It is the absolute right of the State to supervise the formation of public opinion.
The rank and file are usually much more primitive than we imagine. Propaganda must therefore always be essentially simple and repetitious. The most brilliant propagandist technique will yield no success unless one fundamental principle is borne in mind constantly . . . it must confine itself to a few points and repeat them over and over.
If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it people will eventually come to believe it.
Propaganda is a means to an end. Its purpose is to lead the people to an understanding that will allow them to willingly and without internal resistance devote themselves to the tasks and goals of a superior leadership. If propaganda is to succeed, it must know what it wants. It must keep a clear and firm goal in mind, and seek the appropriate means and methods to reach that goal. Propaganda as such is neither good nor evil. Its moral value is determined by the goals it seeks.

[iceman]

Originally posted by Buster Highmen
It is the absolute right of the State to supervise the formation of public opinion.
The rank and file are usually much more primitive than we imagine. Propaganda must therefore always be essentially simple and repetitious. The most brilliant propagandist technique will yield no success unless one fundamental principle is borne in mind constantly . . . it must confine itself to a few points and repeat them over and over.
If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it people will eventually come to believe it.
Propaganda is a means to an end. Its purpose is to lead the people to an understanding that will allow them to willingly and without internal resistance devote themselves to the tasks and goals of a superior leadership. If propaganda is to succeed, it must know what it wants. It must keep a clear and firm goal in mind, and seek the appropriate means and methods to reach that goal. Propaganda as such is neither good nor evil. Its moral value is determined by the goals it seeks.

Goebbels?

[KQ]

Originally posted by Buster Highmen
It is the absolute right of the State to supervise the formation of public opinion.
The rank and file are usually much more primitive than we imagine. Propaganda must therefore always be essentially simple and repetitious. The most brilliant propagandist technique will yield no success unless one fundamental principle is borne in mind constantly . . . it must confine itself to a few points and repeat them over and over.
If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it people will eventually come to believe it.
Propaganda is a means to an end. Its purpose is to lead the people to an understanding that will allow them to willingly and without internal resistance devote themselves to the tasks and goals of a superior leadership. If propaganda is to succeed, it must know what it wants. It must keep a clear and firm goal in mind, and seek the appropriate means and methods to reach that goal. Propaganda as such is neither good nor evil. Its moral value is determined by the goals it seeks.

Why does this remind me of the news reels showing rats running around the streets of Berlin in the 1939?

[lemon boy]

KQ-

Sure, this is politics as usual. This kind of shit is completely unsurprising and if you'd put a little reading comp effort into my post you'd note the phrases: matchbook on a bonfire and fart in the wind. The shrub making those ads doesn't make me much madder at him in the grand scheme of things. I remain way more pissed off over the Iraq and the shrubs general prosecution of the WOT (although not AFG in general), the deficit, the constant rollback of civil liberties, the constant rollback of environmental/conservation protections etc... etc... etc... etc.... ad nauseum (really really nauseous).

It is just propaganda, perhaps it will backfire on Karl if more people are pissed about it than not but you're not thinking about the ads:

1. Your demographic is gonna be outraged by ANY pro-shrub ad.
2. There are a few who may be outraged (and if this group is big enough might constitute a propaganda blunder/failure)
3. The group of people who will be consoled by the images (this is the targeted group)
4. Those strong supporters who'll be emboldened/prideful at this type of ad (ANY pro-shrub ad).

The shrub's pretty vulnerable (imho) on issues, especially traditionally conservative issues but is almost unassailable on emotional issues.

[The AD]

And does he really want to advertise that one of the greatest tragedies in the history of the U.S. happened under his watch? I guess he does.

[Buster Highmen]

Originally posted by iceman
Goebbels?

Dingdingding! We haf un weiner!!!

[lemon boy]

Originally posted by The AD
And does he really want to advertise that one of the greatest tragedies in the history of the U.S. happened under his watch? I guess he does.

sure he does, ask ANY republican, they'll tell you that Bill Clinton is responsible for 9/11 and the shrub's just cleanin up the mess (and doin a DAMN fine job of it they might add)

[The AD]

Originally posted by lemon boy
sure he does, ask ANY republican, they'll tell you that Bill Clinton is responsible for 9/11 and the shrub's just cleanin up the mess (and doin a DAMN fine job of it they might add)

You're right. How could I forget? The economic downturn was all Clinton's fault, too.

[365wp]

Random sorta OT...but the new twenties have 100% more tracking built-in!

[Greydon Clark]

George Bush is the best president ever. You people are on crack. Go suck a dick. God bless America and may he piss fire and shit plague on the rest of the world.

[lemon boy]

See, now yer getting it.

Tax cuts improve the economy before the taxes are due
Tax cuts increase revenues
War is peace
Truth is fiction

It's not hard to imagine, it's easy if you try.

[KQ]

Originally posted by Greydon Clark
George Bush is the best president ever. You people are on crack. Go suck a dick. God bless America and may he piss fire and shit plague on the rest of the world.

LOL!!! Just spit my Star-schmucks mocha all over my monitor.

[bush_repub]

Greydon, you got it right.
everybody else check

http://amishrakefight.org/gfy

[KQ]

Originally posted by bush_repub
Greydon, you got it right.
everybody else check

http://amishrakefight.org/gfy

Ahhhhhhhhh the answer to my riddle. LOL!!! Thank you for proving my point

[schuss]

Originally posted by 365wp
Random sorta OT...but the new twenties have 100% more tracking built-in!

actually, thats just someone being a moron with how they use their microwave. Microwave one 20, it won't blow. Microwave a stack and the densest part (the eye) will blow as its insulated and thus acquires more heat. We just went through this on another forum.

[Jumper Bones]

Originally posted by lemon boy
sure he does, ask ANY republican, they'll tell you that Bill Clinton is responsible for 9/11 and the shrub's just cleanin up the mess (and doin a DAMN fine job of it they might add)

well yes Bill Clinton IS somewhat responsible for the 9/11 attacks. his administration policies destroyed the budgets that the intelligence services used to have, so that they became reliant on technical means of observation. It's hard to spy on people with orbiting satellites designed to sniff out satellite radio transmissions, when all of the stuff is occurring on the ground on the basis of tribal and family relationships.

the democratic charge of saying Bush is responsible for 9/11 because it happened on his watch is bullshit. For 8 years, Bush's predecessors kited checks on the rationale that this was a new world without a significant threat worth spending anything real on. Less than 1 year into the new presidency, those checks came due, got cashed when there wasn't anything in the bank to back them up. Oh fuck.

If Kerry had used these images in HIS ads, would you still be upset? I'd say no. The Bush camp just beat him to it. Keep in mind the IAF has already endorsed Kerry, so no wonder they're making a ruckus about their images being used.

I'm not saying the President is the bright and shining light this world needs, and I'm certainly not his stoolie. You have every right to be angry about certain things. Just try to not have every bit of anger side precisely with party lines.

We're hearing the same stupid shit out of the left that we heard out of the right 4 years ago. I'm just waiting for the right to cry of a "vast left-wing conspiracy" against the Pres.