Got my roll...

**RootSkier** · 03-17-2007, 11:46 PM

Originally Posted by kayaktheworld

In that case, you are not doing it right.

Well, maybe we are calling it different things then. I tend do some sort of sweep roll and end up leaning forward, too. It can start from anywhere, though.

Maybe I am just envisioning the gaperific version of a back deck roll.

**SKISC** · 03-18-2007, 02:38 AM

Originally Posted by teledave

The only roll I have is a C-to-C, it's pretty bombproof but I have gotten worked pre-roll a couple of times. Is there anwhere online that ai can get instruction for a sweep roll?

Dave, I have a DVD that the NOC produced. I made you, Stinky, and GB a copy last year but never gave it to you. It is still in my truck. PM me addy and I will mail or give it to you next time I see you.

**SKISC** · 03-18-2007, 02:48 AM

One thing that helped me keep my head down during the sweep was that I got my mask out of my diving bag and took it to the lake with me (don't take it to the river, you may get laughed at). I would phsically watch the paddle sweep and then as I started pulling the paddle into the water I would watch the paddle, looking straight down the shaft. Do the hip snap while still looking down the shaft and when everythig wa upright I would slide, not pull, my head out of the water with the paddlefollowing.

You will get it. Hang in there.

**BB RidgeKid** · 03-18-2007, 03:25 AM

Keep going to the pool and get that roll down. My best tips are your head should come up last as everyone has said, and if you are doing your roll right hand forward make sure you keep your left elbow glued to the boat (this will generally keep your paddle from diving. getting a hand roll is tough but really easy once you figure it out all it involves is a verypowerful hip snap (it also helps your normal roll because you are capable of getting the boat right side up with little arm strength. Personally i think it is harder to roll with a mask on it is sort of confusing. When you get on to the river just let yourself settle and just do it like you do it in the pool. Just keep at it and once you get nailed keep doing it. The roll is all about finnesse.

**kayaktheworld** · 03-18-2007, 09:25 AM

Hubie, I knew Spelius was down at the Futa, didn't know he was making videos on rolls. I disagree with him on how to do a sweep roll though. There is a way to do it so that with that one you also come up sitting forward and ready.

**cloudpeak** · 03-18-2007, 10:56 AM

It's my understanding that most people no longer teach the sweep roll the way Spelius shows it in this video. Today, most people are sitting upright in the kayak at the end of the roll and ready to paddle forward without ever being on the back deck.

I really like his video of the back deck roll. I've been working on this roll for a while without much success, and I think this video might help me the next time I make it to a pool session.

**cmsummit** · 03-19-2007, 08:49 AM

Originally Posted by hubie

sorry, these videos are kind of hokey, but that is how most instructional videos are, here is another one of a guy doing what spelius is calling a hybrid roll. this looks like a sweep roll to begin with, but he ends up sitting foreward and ready to paddle. kayaktheworld this is probably what you are talking about when you are saying there is a different way to sweep roll. this is probably more like what my c to c has developed into over the years, but this is not a sweep roll. this is more like a c to c with all the steps blended together.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEd2Z4dMiJc

that's my roll, right there. I learned the c to c method and over the years as it became necessary to roll up quicker, it just naturally progressed into that hybrid roll.

**Conundrum** · 03-20-2007, 12:37 PM

Hubie-yep, that is a hybrid where you set up in a sweep and finish in the later stages of a c to c. That's what I do a lot because you can really keep your elbows tucked in and you are ready to paddle when you are out of the water.

In a back deck, you should come up leaning forward in a pretty aggressive position. If I'm anywhere I need to be on my game, I use those two rolls depending on my position when I go upside down.

A technically true sweep roll will put you towards your stern when you come up. I do those too, as slowly as possible when I know I have the time and depth to do it safely.

Once you start getting your rolls consistently, try to do them as slowly as possible. It will show you any bad habits.

Another piece of advice I can give is going to sound sexist but is only a generalization. Find a good female paddler and watch them roll. Typically, even beginning female paddlers have better rolling technique than male paddlers. They are forced to because on average, women have less upper body strength and their center of gravity is different giving them a better hip snap on pure genetics alone. Men, even experienced paddlers, will often times rely on their strength and even fight the current to get up. Women more often will just go through the proper motion out of necessity. Plus, paddler chicas are hot so if nothing else, use learning to roll as an excuse to make some new friends.

**ridinshockgun** · 03-20-2007, 01:18 PM

Originally Posted by Conundrum

Find a good female paddler and watch them roll.

That is very true. Been there, done that.... and it really puts things in perspective. It looked so effortless and here I was using everything I had to roll the boat.

**moose pit** · 03-20-2007, 02:44 PM

Originally Posted by ridinshockgun

That is very true. Been there, done that.... and it really puts things in perspective. It looked so effortless and here I was using everything I had to roll the boat.

No shit, the GF is doing the pool sessions as well - 45min and she had it pretty much dialed. Me not so quick.

**Yeti** · 03-20-2007, 03:04 PM

I'm another one in the hybrid sweep-to-C roll camp. I never had any real instruction in rolling, but have just figured out something that works for me. Thanks for those videos -- he is kinda hokey, but that back deck roll looks worth trying.

**crackboy** · 03-22-2007, 12:38 PM

the thing i found that helped with my paddle diving was to make sure i had a good wrist angle and i really punched the paddle out of the water.

the guy who taught me suggested i imagine a piece of ice on the surface that i am trying to move from the front to the back of the boat. worked for me, not so well for other people

**teledave** · 03-22-2007, 01:21 PM

Originally Posted by crackboy

the thing i found

Are you on crack?

Boating season starts in an hour on the Pigeon for me!

Hope my roll still works.

**SKISC** · 03-22-2007, 01:40 PM

Originally Posted by teledave

Are you on crack?

Boating season starts in an hour on the Pigeon for me!

Hope my roll still works.

You SUCK! Because I still have pneumonia and can't go. We will do plenty of paddleing this summer though. You guys have fun tonight. Let me knw how cold that water is.

**chrismo720** · 03-22-2007, 04:56 PM

I got a pretty decent role( first season was last summer ) yet to flip it in current, but I damn know its comeing. I cant wait to get my combat. Althought I am told I have a sick brace, thats a key reason I havent flipped her yet.

**crackboy** · 03-22-2007, 10:42 PM

Originally Posted by teledave

Are you on crack?

Boating season starts in an hour on the Pigeon for me!

Hope my roll still works.

whys everyone say that ?

My rafting season starts tommorow morning. Start raft guide training.

**mtcham** · 03-22-2007, 11:54 PM

Moose Pit,

Learning to roll in the pool is great. If you have other good boaters at the pool watch them and ask questions. Every kayaker I've known will help the new guys.

Don't stop with your onside roll, mirror it with the offside, learn the backdeck-you'll end up in this position some time and it's safer to roll up from the back than reposition to the front. Learn to hand roll both sides as you will lose your paddle at some point. And last work on a bomber brace and you'll not get tipped over easily.
Practice your rolls from almost slow motion to power rolls-sometimes you have lots of time to get up and sometimes you don't.

And most imortant learn the Hand of God. Most longtime boaters know it. It's a simple thing that can save a life.

**Yeti** · 03-23-2007, 08:09 AM

Hand of God lesson

Done right, this works wonders. Before I had heard about the right technique, I found it very difficult to unflip a stuck boater.

Good reminder to practice rescue technique.

**teledave** · 03-23-2007, 08:24 AM

Roll still works, although it is kind of raggedy. I may go back this afternoon and work on just rolling a bit before getting into any holes. Or i may just drink all day, 'cause my back and shoulders are SORE!

Water was fairly cold, Tripp; about like the Nant always is. I'm sure that is warmer than the places where the flow is primarily from snowmelt though. One nice thing about the Pigeon is in a month or two we'll be boating in a bathing suit and rashguard.

PS: I got the DVD's.

**moose pit** · 03-23-2007, 10:03 AM

Thanks for the great advice and vids!

Last night was session 3 and it looks like I've got my roll pretty much dialed

Nose plugs and goggles sure made the evening (and the beers after) much more enjoyable.

The guys putting on the sessions are awesome! First rate people with a ton of experience and patience. Cheers to the Northwest Paddle Brigade and Gravity Distribution (Fluid Kayak) for demo boats

We've done a few t rescues and last night was a intro into some more paddle techniques, edging, and stuff. It sucks but it looks like I've picked up another hobby that requires specialized gear

Getting some of the other roll techniques is next week... perhaps.

**ridinshockgun** · 03-23-2007, 11:06 AM

Don't stop going to the pool.

I go almost every week, mostly to hang out and go drink afterwards but it makes a big difference just to get in there and fool around for an hour or so.

**Dobish** · 04-08-2007, 02:07 PM

i taught myself to roll, and granted it works, it is not pretty. my offiside is okay because i had to practice it a lot. I really like the back-deck roll. When I was learning to roll, I was doing it in Long Island Sound, so I really didn't want to open my eyes. I did get really good at grabbing my sunglasses as they fell off my head though.

all of the old ladies at the beach kept asking me why i fell over so much!

**ridinshockgun** · 04-11-2007, 11:34 AM

I figured I'd add this. I tried out some NRS webbed gloves at the pool last week and I like them a lot.

They don't have near the power that hand paddles do and they keep you from leaning on the paddle so much when you get used to cheating with your roll on the river.

**ridinshockgun** · 04-11-2007, 11:35 AM

I figured I'd add this. I tried out some NRS webbed gloves at the pool last week and I like them a lot.

They don't have near the power that hand paddles do, but a bit more than just your hands and they would keep you from leaning on the paddle so much.

**moose pit** · 04-13-2007, 10:28 AM

So last night was the last of the "official" pool sessions offered up by the paddling club

but I have a roll

and apparently it suppose to be spring. Although the wet snow that is falling has me itching to ski.

Since my on side roll is pretty solid (in the pool

) my esteemed instructing team (those that have been kind enough to instruct me on all things kayak) decided that it was time to propose a new to me technique for righting a kayak. My experience with the backdeck roll was not particularly successful... ok so it was at the very best marginally almost near close to sort of the right idea. More things to learn

Now it's only a matter of time before I'll be swimming

the kayaking powers that be (those with gear to lend) seem a little to keen to pitch my carcass into moving water there is defiantly a sadistic streak in all of them.

Pics will likely be coming soon...