AT ski suggestions

**rudy** · 03-07-2007, 03:47 PM

Looking for suggestions on an AT ski with a 90+ waist around a 180 in length. Typically ride at Berthoud, Indian Peaks, Teton Pass, ect. I currently ski a 183 Havoc with freerides and switch between my alpine boots and G-rides. Lately have been using my alpine boots almost exclusively due to feeling in the back seat with the G-rides and the stiff tails on the Havocs. I ride either Gotamas (183) or some old bandit XXXs (185) at the resort. Had the Gotamas mounted with the freerides originally but then decided to put alpine binders on them and replace them with the Havocs in an attempt to lose some weight on the uphill (but loved the way they rode on the downhill).

Bottom line - looking for some suggestions for a lighter ski (to replace the Havocs) with a good even flex. More concerned with a good ski on the descent than weight for the uphill though. Was thinking bout the Bros but was hoping to find a ski that is easier to find deal on. Would love to demo some skis but don't want to pay a bunch of money to do it. Sooooo, any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

**Below Zero** · 03-07-2007, 03:51 PM

I'd check out the Sugar Daddy, Drew. It makes a great AT ski. I thought that the Havocs were already light though.

**pechelman** · 03-07-2007, 03:57 PM

90+, 180, readily available on deals, lighter than atomic\bd construction
your options are limited.

karhu jak bc100 is the one that jumps out
not sure if the new skis are lighter, but maybe checkout the 06/07 183 janak
lighter than a gotama, but similar shape is a 182 VCT

honestly though, 3.8-4.2lbs for a ski that size is about what you can expect.
that puts the havoc pretty much right in that range.

smaller than 90+, youve got a few more options

another option might be to wait for the 07.08 bd lineup as theyve got sexy wood cores and inhouse fabrication.

also, if you really want to drop some weight, ditch the bindings and go dynafit if they suit your skiing style

**El Chupacabra** · 03-07-2007, 04:06 PM

Originally Posted by pechelman

karhu jak bc100 is the one that jumps out

I saw that earlier today on Bentgate.com -- $291 --
http://bentgate.net/bc100skbyka.html

No idea about stiffness, flex, etc.

**Magnoe** · 03-07-2007, 04:22 PM

Seems like the 180 Verdict would be what you're looking for. They were on SAC a couple days ago for under $300.

**Danno** · 03-07-2007, 04:23 PM

Jak BC is 90 underfoot, BC 100 is, well, 100. They are what instantly came to mind, either would be excellent. Quite a good ski. Not very stiff, but has a nice flex and a little snap. Not a noodle unless going high speed on hardpack. And even at full retail it's one of the more affordable skis out there. Plus many deals available.

**laseranimal** · 03-07-2007, 05:24 PM

if he didn't like the havocs stiff tail then he won't like the SD
yes the daddy has a softer shovel but the tail is still stiff

**corn dog** · 03-07-2007, 05:29 PM

Originally Posted by rudy

Bottom line - looking for some suggestions for a lighter ski (to replace the Havocs) with a good even flex.

More concerned with a good ski on the descent than weight for the uphill though.

Well the havoc is pretty light. If you want lighter you are looking at more dedicated AT skis like trab, carbon surf, or the boutique carbon skis - dp and goode.

**rudy** · 03-07-2007, 05:39 PM

Thanks for the input thus far. I like the weight of the Havoc but it is the stiff tails that I'm not a big fan of. What I was trying to say is I would be willing to increase the weight a bit if I could get a more even flex, a better turning ski. Don't want a noodle but something that would not give me the feeling of tailgunning. I would assume that the verdict would have pretty much the same feel with a bit more width, no? Also, don't know if they changed the construction of the Havoc but they are 3 years old at this point.

**pechelman** · 03-07-2007, 05:43 PM

Next years havoc will be different.

Really give a look at the karhu.
I flexed one at the store a while back, seemed just about the right flex for a BC ski. It was soft, but definitely not too soft. Medium-Soft flex Id say. 4 on marsh's scale perhaps.

Ive not flexed an 06/07, but I know they updated the flex on the janak to be a bit softer and more round. Maybe give that a look too.

**Below Zero** · 03-07-2007, 05:44 PM

How long have you been skiing the havocs with G-rides? I just started skiing the G-rides on my 183 Sugar Daddy/Freeride setup and I noticed myself in the backseat quite a bit. My last run of the day I think I finally found the sweet spot of the those AT boots - takes some getting used to.

Not trying to criticize, but are you sure it's not your technique? How tall are you and how long are your poles? Maybe you just need to get more forward?

**uncle crud** · 03-07-2007, 05:46 PM

Or it could just be the Havocs, which I found to be a lame, dead, pointless ski.

**sar13** · 03-07-2007, 05:53 PM

Not too popular around these parts but the Fischer 106/prohete makes a great fat AT ski. Fairly light (under 8.5#) for a ski that fat and very fun to ski. Some say durability is an issue but I wouldn't worry too much about that as a dedicated AT ski. Soft but not too soft. I tele the 180 and love 'em. Since they have been making the ski for about a decade there seem to be deals popping up fairly regularly.

**wilcox510** · 03-07-2007, 05:54 PM

This doesnt help you much as far as skis you can get a deal on (or can get quickly for that matter), but I recently got my 179 soft Bros and am liking them quite a bit. I use Megarides, and previously had Havocs. I also thought the Havocs were too stiff. I'd say the Bros are the most fun AT ski I've had (out of about 7 pairs) for powder or crud. My one day on them in mild breakable crust was the best I ever felt in those conditions (although yesterdays conditions were so bad I couldnt handle it even with the Bros). So, anyways, for soft stuff I like them quite a bit more than Havocs.

**rudy** · 03-07-2007, 06:02 PM

Originally Posted by Below Zero

How long have you been skiing the havocs with G-rides? I just started skiing the G-rides on my 183 Sugar Daddy/Freeride setup and I noticed myself in the backseat quite a bit. My last run of the day I think I finally found the sweet spot of the those AT boots - takes some getting used to.

Not trying to criticize, but are you sure it's not your technique? How tall are you and how long are your poles? Maybe you just need to get more forward?

No offense taken. I have had on the G-rides for about 15ish days with the Havocs. Then I switched back to my alpine boots and still encounter the problem to some extent. I know part of it is getting used to less stiff AT boots but alot of it has to do with the stiff tails of the ski. I'm 5'10" and 170 lbs. My poles are 120 cms.

**LeeLau** · 03-07-2007, 06:09 PM

I actually had Havocs and Pocket Rockets.

I found them both to be quite soft actually. That's probably just me as Im not particularly sensitive to how skis feel.

Edit: Maybe try PRs? I ski them in 185 and you can find them dirtcheap. Twintip so they ski shorter. The good news is that if they're decambered and bagged out - well who cares? After all they're for touring. I'm 5' 10" and 160. There's not that much weight difference between the two.

If you want lighter - got to spend quite a bit more.

**MakersTeleMark** · 03-07-2007, 06:34 PM

Reverands, also available on sale @ bentgate.

**Kya** · 03-07-2007, 07:17 PM

Originally Posted by El Chupacabra

I saw that earlier today on Bentgate.com -- $291 --
http://bentgate.net/bc100skbyka.html

No idea about stiffness, flex, etc.

That's a good deal! I have skied the Line Prophet 100, and it is $$ for pow/touring. I do believe that Line and Karhu are like the same ski? So it seems that you'd be getting a lighter Prophet 100.

I'm 5'6", 155lbs. I prefer a softer ski, shorter ski. I got them mounted with dynafit tlt. I have ridden the 179 Prophet 100. I'd say they are a medium flex. Way stiffer, damper then a Mothership, and fatter. Super easy to ski. I took them out on the groomers Sunday and they can carve a fast, solid edge for sure. I'm stoked for the all mountain any condition ability. Hope that helps. That Karhu looks like a killer deal!

**Magnoe** · 03-07-2007, 07:25 PM

Kya,
If you check this thread again would you mind posting what your weight/height is and what length prophet your skiing? No need to post your skill level, I've seen the threads with you and iskibc

**iskibc** · 03-07-2007, 08:47 PM

I ride on the Prophet 100s in a 186cm. and they absolutely rock in all bc conditions. They aren't all that heavy either. Thinking about switching the NX21s for dynafits on them. The 100s have a nice and even flex, durable bases and edges, and can handle just about any type of snow conditions you will face in the backcountry. They can turn on a dime, are super responsive, and float like a feather in pow.

Go with them, you won't be dissapointed.

**corn dog** · 03-07-2007, 09:05 PM

If you want a cheaper softer Havoc you could just get some 186 atomic stomps of the hostage plate generation. I use them as an AT ski and like them a lot in that role. They have a mellow flex, including the tail, and are on ebay for sub $200. You have to ditch the hostage plate and fit the freerides on there somehow or other. If you're down for some work with hacksaw and cutting board its not too much hassle, just be extra careful with the positioning so you don't get insta-tele.

**ninjabirdman** · 03-07-2007, 09:25 PM

Originally Posted by iskibc

The 100s have a nice and even flex, durable bases and edges, and can handle just about any type of snow conditions you will face in the backcountry. They can turn on a dime, are super responsive, and float like a feather in pow.

looking at a karhu bc100. when you say just about any type of snow, would you include crust/spring mornings? that's what concerns me about a softer touring ski (on havocs now, love them, but want something a bit wider)

**Magnoe** · 03-08-2007, 12:07 AM

Originally Posted by iskibc

I ride on the Prophet 100s in a 186cm. and they absolutely rock in all bc conditions. They aren't all that heavy either. Thinking about switching the NX21s for dynafits on them. The 100s have a nice and even flex, durable bases and edges, and can handle just about any type of snow conditions you will face in the backcountry. They can turn on a dime, are super responsive, and float like a feather in pow.

Go with them, you won't be dissapointed.

Iskibc,

How big are you? It seems like the prophet 179's might be too short for me. I would use these skis probably 80% resort for soft or powder days, 20% slackcountry/BC... Much like my Gotamas but are too short (176). You think these would work as skis I can use at resort for anything but the hardpack days?

I really appreciate you stepping up to the plate in lieu of Kya.

**chaka** · 03-08-2007, 09:28 AM

another vote for Karhu/Line models around the 90-100 size range. I have '05 totem Jaks as my A/T setup, 97mm underfoot, pretty soft but I have found them to be great for a wide variety of snow conditions for bc. I am 155lbs for reference, ok skier. This is the same ski essentially as a newer mothership. You could probably find a great deal, now that they have moved away from the 97mm waist to either 90 or 100.