looking to purchase my first Subaru

**seanpistol** · 03-06-2007, 11:56 PM

I have a couple questions.

First off, i've driven an F-250 my entire life. I've never owned a car, and have only driven one a few times. I commute 25 miles a day to and from work, and it is usually traffic-free believe it or not. A couple days a week in the winter I run up to Mammoth to get some skiing in. In the summer, it's to the beach to surf. Usually I will only have 1 or 2 passengers and our gear.I'm planning on moving to Salt Lake in another year, so I will be in the snow quite a bit more than I am now.

I'm looking at a Subaru Outback Impreza. I really like the look of the WRX wagon, but don't want the turbocharged motor for a few reasons, such as the fact that having a WRX will make my insurance quite a bit higher, i'd rather not have to use premium fuel, and it doesn't get as good of gas mileage.

Is the Outback Impreza basically the same body style as the WRX with a regular Outback motor? If so, it seems like that would be what i'm looking for. On KBB it reports 28 MPG highway, and 21MPG city, which definitely makes me happy. Then i'm not sure if I would rather have a stick or the 4 speed automatic with overdrive.

Any input on anything would be appreciated.

**Benny Profane** · 03-07-2007, 01:06 AM

I drive a 2001 Forester. This is basically an Impreza with boxy body and a lot of clearance. I have 96,000 miles on it, and hope to reach 125,000 before shopping seriously. I had the dreaded head gasket/overheating problems with the car, which was a common problem with that engine from 2000 to around '03, but it was fixed for nothing under a recall program at 75,000, and that fix was guaranteed 'til 100,000. Otherwise, I have replaced a rear bearing for $400, which I'm told is a typical problem, and just last month, a right front axle for $350. That's it for major repairs. Change the oil every 3000, and nothing breaks. I measured the mileage last spring over 6 tanks at 23.6 average.

Two necessities will be a rack system with box for skis (short car), and snows in the winter. I almost got out and kissed the thing last week driving through a storm in Vermont. It rules under those conditions.

This car is not a chick magnet. As a matter of fact, you will be hearing snickering little lesbian jokes at times if you own it. Probably in this thread. And it won't "inspire" you like the AllRoad

, but it's a great value.

edit: I suppose snows aren't a "necessity", but, dear lord, snow driving performance improved 100% with them, especially braking. And that's just $60 a piece Winterforce snows. And the cost is easily justified with the mileage you save on your dry tires.

**wren** · 03-07-2007, 01:16 AM

I've got an 02 WRX Wagon and love it. The Wagon really reduces insurance costs, at least here in BC. The WRX Wagon only came in a stick and I wouldn't have it any other way. There is some pretty bad turbo lag below 2750 RPM and you really want the stick to be able to control your power. My WRX is tuned a little bit, so my gas milage isnt as good as the quotes. Currently I get an average of 18 MPG a lot of city driving, but a regular WRX should be more in the range of 22 overall. The 2.5 would definitely be better. but I would imagine the outback sport would be a little underpowered, especially on hills. However I believe the newer 2.5s (06+) have more torque.

And yes, the outback sport is essentially the same car as a 2.5rs or ts, but with different options. The WRX has a different suspension, and probably more. (www.nasioc.com will be able to tell you much more). I would personally choose an older WRX over a newer outback sport just because the amount of driving to and from Whistler I do, and I like having passing power. Plus I like a sporty car and the 2.5 is a very ordinary engine. I also have had no reliability issues for the period I've owned my car (83,000km-107,000km) just scheduled maintenance.

I had snow tires last season but am getting by just fine on all seasons now (though I did pay through the nose for really good ones). And as Benny said, a rack is very necessary.

**ill-advised strategy** · 03-07-2007, 01:48 AM

if I could do it all over again and re-shop for a subaru I would try to find a pre-97 2.2 SOHC (pre-97 are non-interference) with a standard trans (subaru AWD standard trans is way less complicated and basicly, afaik, splits between the front and rear 50% allowing for slip, whereas the auto has a bunch of clutch packs and is super complicated).

^^^^this is the perspective of somebody (me) more interested in longevity, durability, serviceability, and economy than in all-out performance. so take it fwiw.

In the F250 world I had a 1978 canadian model with the I300 and overdrive 4 speed, so super duper simple with the 1bbl carburetor, got 20 mpg on the highway in OD, and could torque around with the best of 'em; and that truck served a lot of the same priorities I'm indicating with the pre 97 2.2 standard tranny sube.

**Dudley** · 03-07-2007, 09:13 AM

I always drove a SUV and just made the switch to Subaru about 4 months ago. I went with a new outback and love it. Great in the snow and a lot more fun to drive. A roof box is a must. I have the thule surf racks on top out of ski season but more often than not just throw three boards in the back. You'll be psyched with the switch (I think the Impreza Outback is a sweet looking ride... being 6'3'' it just wasnt in the cards)

L7 · 03-07-2007, 09:45 AM

I have a forester (not a lesbian) and my girlfriend has an outback (also not a lesbian). They are both 03s and we both like my forester better. A lot of what I like is the way you sit in it. It seems much roomier and way easier to get in and out of. Make an easier transition from driving a p/u I think.

**AK Rev** · 03-07-2007, 10:04 AM

Like you, I generally prefer a truck to a car. This summer we got an Outback for commuting and it has been a good car. My realtor is on his 2nd Outback and got about 220,000 out of his first one. He'll buy a 3rd one before long. In Alaska, you see the Subarus all over the place. It's not uncommon to have 2 or 3 at most stoplights.

I get about 25 mpg on a 40 minute highway commute on snow/ice. I added studded tires and it does very well as long as it has enough clearance. Still need to add the roof box though.

**seanpistol** · 03-07-2007, 10:27 AM

Wren, a 2003 Outback Impreza has 166Hp and 165 ft.lbs. of torque while it weighs 3,000 lbs. I definitely don't need a racecar since i'm used to a diesel F-250, but I don't want to be stuck with a turtle.

Another vehicle i've been considering is a 2001ish Jeep Grand Cherokee. The only drawback I see with it is that it gets 16-20 MPG. Any feedback on a Jeep?

**Dromond** · 03-07-2007, 10:35 AM

Originally Posted by YetiMan

if I could do it all over again and re-shop for a subaru I would try to find a pre-97 2.2 SOHC (pre-97 are non-interference) with a standard trans (subaru AWD standard trans is way less complicated and basicly, afaik, splits between the front and rear 50% allowing for slip, whereas the auto has a bunch of clutch packs and is super complicated).

^^^^this is the perspective of somebody (me) more interested in longevity, durability, serviceability, and economy than in all-out performance. so take it fwiw....

That what I'm interested in and that's what I have. 96' 2.2L legacy wagon. I love the car. Unfortunately It may need the catalytic converter, muffler and some other stuff replaced to pass inspection. $2,000 at least. It makes me very sad.

**Sphinx** · 03-07-2007, 12:27 PM

Originally Posted by seanpistol

Wren, a 2003 Outback Impreza has 166Hp and 165 ft.lbs. of torque while it weighs 3,000 lbs. I definitely don't need a racecar since i'm used to a diesel F-250, but I don't want to be stuck with a turtle.

Another vehicle i've been considering is a 2001ish Jeep Grand Cherokee. The only drawback I see with it is that it gets 16-20 MPG. Any feedback on a Jeep?

I drive a 99 2.5 RS - Subaru's 'performance' car back in the day. It has the 2.5 165hp engine, 5sp tranny. It is not a turtle, and it handles great with nothing more than a big rear sway bar. No, it's not powerful by today's standards, but I really love the way it drives, and it loves redline unlike other cars in its class that I've driven. Loud as fuck, though; both engine noise and wind noise are considerable. It's creeping up on 105k and I hope to get at least 150k out of it. I do not drive like a granny, and get truly pathetic mileage in the city. On the highway I get 28 mpg, but am usually loaded down with a shitton of gear and lots of people, which doesn't help.

The wagons won't have as stiff a suspension, but will work better with skis and outdoor gear. Get the manual since you don't deal with traffic. The subaru chassis' are all the same - the WRX is built off the same platform as the other Imprezas. All the engines are the same - the Outback, Legacy, and Imprezas all share the same N/A engine. Very interchangable.

I'm 6'3" and I fit better into my Impreza than I do into the older Outbacks, mainly because the steering wheel on the Impreza gives me knee some crucial clearance that the Outback doesn't. I also like small cars.

If you find an old 2.2l model, it will run forever. Probably the most bombproof engine Subaru ever built, there are lots and lots of people who took the 2.2 well past 200k with no issues. It's not a powerful engine, though.

The clutch on the N/A subarus usually lasts up to 90 or 100k - keep that in mind if you're buying a used manual.

**Long Duck Dong** · 03-07-2007, 12:39 PM

I think you can't go wrong here. I drove a 1991 cherokee for a long time, and those Jeep I-6 high output engines run forever. Boxy car though with poor mileage.

I have driven a WRX wagon for the last 4 years and have 80k miles on it and have had zero problems. I don't have any tuning, and drive a lot of highway, and regularly get 27-28 mpg in the summer and 25 in the winter (no rack on car either).

I have also driven the regular 2.5L impreza and feel that its still got a good amount of pep. Good luck man, I think you'll be happy with whatever subie you get.

**ill-advised strategy** · 03-07-2007, 05:48 PM

Originally Posted by Dromond

That what I'm interested in and that's what I have. 96' 2.2L legacy wagon. I love the car. Unfortunately It may need the catalytic converter, muffler and some other stuff replaced to pass inspection. $2,000 at least. It makes me very sad.

Mine throws codes all the time, many of which are catalytic converter codes...yet, I just watched it like a hawk and kept resetting it and took it into inspect right at the 1 hour window when it wasn't chucking a converter code.

**StokeSmack** · 03-07-2007, 07:02 PM

I think you can't go wrong with the impreza wagon, reliability and utility are tops. But.... our OB wagon has 200 K on it (it's our good car) and it's time to think about geting another car. Instead of another subie we are considering a 4wd Honda Element because those engines are bulletproof, you can do anything you want with the interior, it's quicker than the OB with about the same mileage, and it sits up as high and is as roomy as my pickup truck. But with way more room. Some people think it's ugly, but that's their problem, I don't have to see it when I'm driving.

**slippy** · 03-07-2007, 07:33 PM

Originally Posted by Benny Profane

I have 96,000 miles on it, and hope to reach 125,000 before shopping seriously.

I have a 2000 ImprezaRS. Between 90,000 miles and 120,000 miles I've spent about $1500 on replacing brakes, struts, belts, wheel bearings, window motor, and more. And I have about $400 more to spend after coming back from the mechanic today. I know each car is different, but you might want to start shopping before reaching 125,000 miles. Before 90,000 I only replaced the muffler.

**DJSapp** · 03-07-2007, 08:01 PM

I just bought an '06 outback impreza wagon. It's is simply a rebadged impreza wagon with a nicer interior and different (two tone) paint scheme. It kicks ass. Get the stick, you'll thank me going up the grade outside of Bishop.

The 2.5 L 173hp motor has plenty of power to get you into trouble, or to haul ass up the mountains. It just doesn't have enough to get you to do 70 in a 30 in 3rd like I did when I test drove the WRX. Scared the piss out of the saleswoman. To answer your question, I believe the legacy and outback share the same frame and motor (2.5 L 175 hp). The Forester and Impreza share the 173 hp 2.5L motor. *edit: current model year*

As far as gear hauling, you can fold down the rear seats and pack 4 pairs of skis (190 cm) boots and a weeks worth of clothes for two easily with someone in shotgun. If you need to haul more people, get a rocket box which will kill your mileage.

**raj** · 03-07-2007, 09:31 PM

I have driven subies for a long time. I bought a 2.2 legacy stick shift wagon in 1996 new adn drove it for about 120K miles without any problems. It got totalled when it rolled over on a transition from dry road to black ice that was invisible. Not the car's fault (or mine), just a freak accident.

I then got a WRX wagon with stick shift. Driving wise it is a whole different class and loads of fun. Financially not so much. My insurance was more than twice of the previous car, takes premium adn worse gas mileage. Also it is/was a "hot" car. I had my car broken in by prefessional thieves who basicalyl stripped it (airbags, interior, turbo stuff) costing ~ 9K adn more than two weeks of down time ! Both cars did great in snow with dedicated snow tires although clearance can be a problem compared to trucks if road is not plowed.

If I were doing it again, I would like to keep my 1996 car for ever. Most trouble free, economic, low profile/ no chick or thief magnet .Given that I can't do that, I would get a new stick Outback. I wouldn't get the WRX because even though it is loads of fun, having a "hot" car can be a major hassle. Going low profile in cars or trucks has major advantages.

**raj** · 03-07-2007, 09:40 PM

One more thought. Between my old legacy/ outback or my new WRX/ Forester/ Impreza styles, make sure you have enough length to sleep if you get stuck or get early to a ski area chasing a storm. I could sleep nicely in the old legacy/ new outback. The WRX/ Impreza/ Forester is too short for that and I am not tall to begin with.

So again, I would push for legacy/ outback compared to Impreza/ WRX.

**PNW Skier** · 03-07-2007, 09:45 PM

I can't really help on the boobaru as I've never had one. Though I have many friends that have them and they absolutely love them so I'm sure they are a great car.

As far as jeeps go I had a 1994 grand. It was lifted with 32" bfg muds on it, they were siped at discount tire. That thing absolutely rocked in the snow. I know muds aren't supposed to be awesome in snow/ice but for some reason that rig was one of the most amazing snow vehicles I've ever driven. Of course the mileage sucked after I lifted it. it got something like 14mpg, my newer 7000pound GMC 2500hd with the duramax in it easily gets 17mpg on winter fuel and close to 20 in the summer. Gotta love the diesels.

**tchpdx** · 03-07-2007, 10:00 PM

I've got 2 lesbirus, a 94 legacy wagon with 194,000 and a 2002 legacy sedan with 96,000. I love the 94 wagon and my wife drives the sedan. I've only had to do some minor work on the wagon - u-joints at 110,000 and a new axle at 190,000. It rallies well and climbs hills without any complaints in "D1".

It is fugly and I constantly get asked about the location of my rainbow sticker. I smile and say "Its paid for bitch!" or "I spend more on my mt. bike/quiver than my car".

Off topic - sorry about that - my wife's 02 sucks in my opinion as it is gutless and has some brake issues (the 02's have a shuddering problem that is hard to fix - we are experiencing that).

I'd like to keep the 94 and run it into the ground or give it to my kid when he turns 16. The 02 is not going to be as strong and we will be getting rid of it in the next year or so. Great experience with the cars and they feel pretty safe and confident here in the PNW.

**seanpistol** · 03-07-2007, 11:06 PM

thanks for all the responses.

a couple things i left out...

i want to get a car with under 50K miles on it. something "newer". i plan on keeping it for maybe 4 or 5 years, before i sell it to get one of those cars that run on water.

i'm not overly concerned about the car lasting 200K miles.

i'm just a tad under 6'4" for those of you that made height references.

this is what i'm looking at, but i'm leaning towards finding one with a stick.

http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.js...000&cardist=39

**ill-advised strategy** · 03-07-2007, 11:11 PM

honestly, if you're getting something with less than 50K and you're not keeping it for long I don't see how you could go wrong with anything.

**Flexon Phil** · 03-08-2007, 06:40 AM

I have had 13 Subies in my family. The only issue with any was a blown HG on a 98. I currently have a 06 Leg wagon and my son has a 99 Forester which the HG recall was done on. The Sub is a much better bet than the Jeep.

**Dudley** · 03-08-2007, 08:06 AM

StokeSmack... Pretty certain the OB is faster in just about everyway. The middle of the road OB gets from 0-60 in 7.9 whereas the Element gets there in 8.8. I do like the idea behind the element, and I dont think there are that rough on the eyes as some do. I did however find them to be pretty booring to drive though and had a lot more fun driving the OB due to its handling and zip.

**Dudley** · 03-08-2007, 08:11 AM

MMM... and you signature is right on the money... Just made steaks with Gorganzola on the grill last night. Delcious and if there had been leftovers I'd be mauling them for breakfast now

**Benny Profane** · 03-08-2007, 09:02 AM

Originally Posted by seanpistol

thanks for all the responses.

a couple things i left out...

i want to get a car with under 50K miles on it. something "newer". i plan on keeping it for maybe 4 or 5 years, before i sell it to get one of those cars that run on water.

i'm not overly concerned about the car lasting 200K miles.

i'm just a tad under 6'4" for those of you that made height references.

this is what i'm looking at, but i'm leaning towards finding one with a stick.

http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.js...000&cardist=39

Be careful. As I said in my post, this was a dark period for Subaru, when they manufactured a bad engine with head gasket problems, which resulted in leakage and overheating. But they are very open about this at Subaru if you call the 800 service number - they did a recall on all these engines, and service is free to fix if it hasn't been done already before 100,000 miles. Chek the VIN, and call Subaru direct to see if that service was done. If not, stay away, and buy an '04 to present. Or a pre- 2000 model.