The baseball thread.

**Woodsy** · 08-23-2007, 08:57 PM

Originally Posted by Woodsy

true, everyone knows throwing Wagner in the game is a total crap shoot.
that guy is such a junkshow

proved my point AGAIN tonight.
god i hope I see him blow another lead when I am at Shea tomorrow night

**Woodsy** · 08-23-2007, 09:00 PM

Originally Posted by The AD

I don't know about that. Yes, there are twice as many teams now as in Ford's day, but there's also a much bigger talent pool to select from. There weren't many black, Latin or Asian pitchers around back in Whitey's day.

I think the biggest reason for the explosion in offense is the dimensions of the ballparks nowadays. Owners know that offense sells and they're putting the fences at distances to ensure that happens.

I still think it's pitching.
good points using my favorite tteam as a reference.

Pitching a fit
By Steve Henson, Yahoo! Sports
August 23, 2007

Steve Henson
Yahoo! Sports

PHILADELPHIA – Their home is Las Vegas, so somebody ought to be able to calculate the odds.

Of the 29 pitchers employed by the Triple-A affiliate of the Los Angeles Dodgers this season – a staggering number even by minor league standards – shouldn't one be a viable fill-in candidate with the big club?

Brett Tomko, the Dodgers' fifth starter, is 2-11 with a 5.80 earned-run average and has given up 20 earned runs in 26 innings in his last five starts. In that time, the Dodgers have gone from leading the National League West by a game to trailing the Arizona Diamondbacks by six.

And though flights on recent road trips have been ghostly silent and the clubhouse feels like a morgue, nobody is admitting the fight is over. In fact, their 15-3 victory over the Philadelphia Phillies on Wednesday night was their most inspired effort in weeks, leaving them 2½ games behind the San Diego Padres for the wild card.

"We need all five starters to be effective game in and game out," said Derek Lowe, who went seven innings to beat the Phillies. "That's the only way we're going to get back into, not only the wild card, but our division. It starts with pitching. You've got to get consistent starting pitchers, one through five, to keep your team in the game."

The Dodgers broke spring training with perhaps the most starting depth of any team, but Jason Schmidt and Randy Wolf went out with shoulder problems and Hong-Chi Kuo had elbow surgery. Only Wolf has a chance to return in September, and only as a reliever.

So, what to do? Where to find a starter?

The pickings are slim. One of the Las Vegas 29 is already in the rotation, ahead of Tomko. He's rookie left-hander Eric Stults, promoted two weeks ago despite an abominable 7.56 ERA and giving up 134 hits in 89 1/3 innings in the Pacific Coast League.

Stults has fared somewhat better at the major-league level thus far, going 1-1 with a 3.91 ERA, but aren't the Dodgers supposed to have one of the strongest farm systems in baseball? Where are all those prospects other teams covet?

The strength has been in position players – witness All-Star catcher Russell Martin, first baseman James Loney and outfielder Matt Kemp.

Yes, standout setup reliever Jonathan Broxton and current No. 3 starter Chad Billingsley are recent products of the system, but there is a serious lack of quality pitchers bubbling below the big-league surface. And it's never been more noticeable, with the Dodgers in third place in the NL West and clinging to the bottom rung of the playoff race.

D.J. Houlton, who spent 2005 with the Dodgers as a Rule 5 pick and except for a brief call-up has been in Las Vegas ever since, has been the top starter at Triple-A, going 6-4 with a 3.87 ERA. Yet Dodgers manager Grady Little hasn't shown confidence in him.

Next in the pecking order could be James McDonald, an 11th-round pick in 2002 who missed the 2004 and 2005 seasons with injuries. He started this season in Class A and is 6-2 with a 1.68 ERA since moving up to Double-A. However, McDonald, who weighs less than 200 pounds despite being 6-feet-5, has lost several miles off his fastball in recent starts and the Dodgers front office doesn't believe he is ready for the big leagues.

The best prospects are left-handers Scott Elbert and Clayton Kershaw, but Elbert, 22, is out with an injury and Kershaw, 19, has had only three starts at Double-A. The only pitcher the Dodgers are excited about promoting is short reliever Jonathan Meloan, who has pitched well at Jacksonville and Las Vegas. He is expected to make his debut when rosters expand Sept. 1.

If it's any consolation for Dodgers fans, the highly regarded starter they drafted in the first round in 2006 but were unable to sign, Luke Hochevar, has struggled at Double-A and Triple-A with the Kansas City Royals and wouldn't be much help right now, either.

The Dodgers have contacted David Wells, 44 and juggling offers from several teams, but he'd hardly be the cavalry. Wells' numbers with the San Diego Padres before he was released were Tomko-esque.

At least the Dodgers aren't alone in their quandary – few teams have a decent fifth starter. The Phillies today will turn to Fabio Castro, who has a 12.27 ERA in three relief appearances and will be making his first major league start.

The New York Mets, whom the Dodgers play this weekend, picked Brian Lawrence off the salvage heap three weeks ago after the Dodgers, Colorado Rockies, Pittsburgh Pirates and other teams passed on him. He's made four starts, posting a 5.57 ERA and lasting more than five innings only once.

And barring an unexpected change, Lawrence and Tomko will match up Sunday at Shea Stadium, hitters will trip over one another getting to the bat rack and the managers will cover their eyes.

**tuffy109** · 08-23-2007, 09:43 PM

Originally Posted by Benny Profane

Do all the SoCal fans still leave before the seventh to beat the traffic?

not the drunk ones. the fans left at the ninth were mostly yankee fans (did see some leaving once it seemed things were over) and angel fans looking for a fight.

**Woodsy** · 08-23-2007, 09:54 PM

Originally Posted by tuffy109

not the drunk ones. the fans left at the ninth were mostly yankee fans (did see some leaving once it seemed things were over) and angel fans looking for a fight.

you shoulda kicked the shit outta some of those mouse eared wearin LA claiming douchebags

**iceman** · 08-23-2007, 10:29 PM

Hey woodsworth, I made it out to Chavez Ravine last week, Dodgers v. Rockies, the game the Dodgers scored 5 in the second but managed to lose.

Pretty cool ballfield, not as nice as Anaheim but a lot more character and I didn't feel like I was the only Democrat in the crowd.

**Woodsy** · 08-24-2007, 10:00 AM

Originally Posted by Steven S. Dallas

Weah everywheayah.

hes right
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/baseb...tendance_N.htm

& yeah Ice,
Dodger staium while no fenway or Wrigley, is a great place to se a game.
not a bad seat in the house.

**tuffy109** · 08-24-2007, 11:37 AM

but why show up to a game with two teams that potentially keep you out of the playoffs?

i'd much rather be at chavez than down at disneyland, but getting in and out of that stadium blows.

**fez** · 08-24-2007, 02:02 PM

to cheer for the angels of course.

and unlike yankees fans who only cheer for them because they like to be on the side of the perrenial winner, sox fans actually just enjoy the game of baseball.

**ECbum** · 08-24-2007, 02:10 PM

123456789

**tuffy109** · 08-24-2007, 02:19 PM

Originally Posted by fez

sox fans actually just feel the need to root for the perennial underdog so they can relate with their inner sense of failure

rejiggermerated

**Benny Profane** · 08-24-2007, 02:43 PM

Originally Posted by fez

and unlike yankees fans who only cheer for them because they like to be on the side of the perrenial winner, sox fans actually just enjoy the game of baseball.

This is a trap. Fez wants the yankee fans to spit out their lunch and react. Be calm, BP, be calm. He can't be serious.

**iceman** · 08-24-2007, 10:35 PM

6 back, 2.5 out of the wild card, how's that playing in the apple?

Just curious.

**The AD** · 08-24-2007, 10:49 PM

Originally Posted by Woodsy

I still think it's pitching.
good points using my favorite tteam as a reference.

Of course back in the day there was no fifth starter. There was also no setup man and no closer. So in today's game you just need more pitchers.

**skikola** · 08-25-2007, 12:11 AM

jo-ba...jo-ba...jo-ba...
the kid continues his domination of the major's best hitters....
he hit 101 on the gun tonight.....
as a true blooded yankee fan, these are exciting times.

**Benny Profane** · 08-25-2007, 12:34 AM

Originally Posted by iceman

6 back, 2.5 out of the wild card, how's that playing in the apple?

Just curious.

Not well. But we make more money than everyone else, and we are better endowed. We'll live.

**Dexter Rutecki** · 08-25-2007, 09:06 AM

Originally Posted by iceman

6 back, 2.5 out of the wild card, how's that playing in the apple?

Just curious.

They're finally starting to accept the inevitable, something most wouldn't admit to in July. Irul should be ready to concede it in mid-October when he has to watch Yankeeography on the YES network (sadly, I'm not making this up) to see the Pinnystripers. [do I still need to put antijinx here? I'm not sure. I guess not][ahh, better do it][/antijinx]

**tuffy109** · 08-25-2007, 01:31 PM

Originally Posted by iceman

6 back, 2.5 out of the wild card, how's that playing in the apple?

Just curious.

i'm guessing that it's like a tug of war between denial and hope.

"gay-rod, you're our only hope" - princess leia

**Dexter Rutecki** · 08-25-2007, 02:12 PM

I heard Steinbrenner is offering Princess Leia $28 million pro-rated to be tied up next to Joba in the clubhouse next season starting in July.

**Benny Profane** · 08-25-2007, 06:26 PM

Originally Posted by The AD

I think the biggest reason for the explosion in offense is the dimensions of the ballparks nowadays. Owners know that offense sells and they're putting the fences at distances to ensure that happens.

Funny, I just had a little light bulb moment watching Yanks/Tigers. Most think of "dimensions" as from the first and third base out, but foul territories have shrunken a lot with the new parks, which gives a lot to the offense, of course. A lot. Not at this new Tiger Stadium, which is (a) cool, because of the dimensions, and (b) because of it's ambiance and location and lack of stupid shit littering the visuals. It's kinda creepy how it looks a lot like Yankee Stadium on the big screen if I'm just a little toasted.

**powder11** · 08-25-2007, 07:48 PM

the sox have to worry about the yankees about as much as they have to worry about toronto. the coffin nail for the yanks will be the final games of their season in seattle.

**The AD** · 08-25-2007, 11:36 PM

Originally Posted by Benny Profane

foul territories have shrunken a lot with the new parks, which gives a lot to the offense, of course. A lot. Not at this new Tiger Stadium

It's Detroit. They don't want the fans getting too close!

**stump832** · 08-26-2007, 02:58 PM

The White Sox are fucking atrocious.

**Steven S. Dallas** · 08-26-2007, 03:11 PM

Yes, yes they are. Thank you Chicago- double digit wins every game.

**stump832** · 08-27-2007, 05:06 AM

Is it too early to start talking magic numbers? 25.

**ECbum** · 08-27-2007, 08:10 AM

The Yanks shouldn't (and of course aren't) thinking about the Sox. All they need to think about is winning the next game. Its been an amazing surge for the Bombers, but if the Sox continue to play .680 baseball down the stretch...its almost impossible for the Yanks to win the division.

This, of course, coming from a huge Sox fan. White Sox looked AWFUL this weekend, but I think some of that can be attributed to our bats and adjustments made in the later innings.

October is going to be fun this year. Angels are going to be tough.