The baseball thread.

**pappag** · 05-31-2007, 11:33 AM

Originally Posted by powpig

You mean like hypocritical Mets fans last night booing Barry Bonds but cheering Guillermo Mota, a man who actually failed a steroids test?

**pappag** · 05-31-2007, 11:37 AM

Also, Mota is about as far away from endangering any records as you can get.

Doesn't make it okay, but he rightfully served his time unlike some other players.

**steve** · 05-31-2007, 11:56 AM

mota \apologized for it. he served his time. bonds is still full of shit, getting away with it, and has no apologies whatsoever.

-steve

**smmokan** · 05-31-2007, 01:05 PM

I find it interesting that Bonds hasn't tested positive since the testing became "regular" a few years ago, but his power (considering his age and the fact that he never gets pitched to) hasn't declined greatly. He's still getting it done, "clean", if you believe in the efficiency of the MLB testing.

**ECbum** · 05-31-2007, 02:45 PM

I'm sorry to say this because the man is a lying asshat and everyone knows he used steroids, but lining up pictures of Bonds throughout the years means shit.

Please show me any baseball player with a career of more then 15 years that didn't put on weight and "get bigger". Ripken, Yaz, Gwynn, Clemens, Thomas...you name 'em - they all get bigger.

And please, don't throw it out there that they all used steroids. Yes, some on that list may have, but the fact is that everyone gets bigger as they get older and the metabolism slows down.

Now, show me some pics from within those three-five years where he most surely was using them...but comparing a rookie card to anything 15-20 years later is silly.

Enough already.

**Hutch** · 05-31-2007, 02:52 PM

I've gained 100 pounds and 2 hat sizes in the last 15 years, but my OBP has gone to shit.

**pappag** · 05-31-2007, 03:03 PM

Gwynn's always been a fat guy. Frank Thomas has always been big (at least from 1993 on).

And Ripken? Yeah, he sure as hell beefed up.

1984:

1999:

**Benny Profane** · 05-31-2007, 03:26 PM

C'mon, dudes, steroids are officially old school. He, and many others are doing human growth hormone, because it's undetectable under present agreements - you need a blood test, and the players aren't allowing that.

**The AD** · 05-31-2007, 03:28 PM

Originally Posted by Nick Pappagiorgio

Gwynn's always been a fat guy.

Not true at all. I don't know if he was ever rail thin, but he definitely wasn't fat when he started out. Heck, he stole over 50 bases one season.

**smmokan** · 05-31-2007, 03:31 PM

Originally Posted by Benny Profane

C'mon, dudes, steroids are officially old school. He, and many others are doing human growth hormone, because it's undetectable under present agreements - you need a blood test, and the players aren't allowing that.

However, HGH has not proven to increase performance. I posted a few months ago an article stating exactly that.

I do think there are plenty of ways around steroid testing though.

**Benny Profane** · 05-31-2007, 03:35 PM

Originally Posted by ECbum

Please show me any baseball player with a career of more then 15 years that didn't put on weight and "get bigger". Ripken, Yaz, Gwynn, Clemens, Thomas...you name 'em - they all get bigger.

And please, don't throw it out there that they all used steroids. Yes, some on that list may have, but the fact is that everyone gets bigger as they get older and the metabolism slows down.

Now, show me some pics from within those three-five years where he most surely was using them...but comparing a rookie card to anything 15-20 years later is silly.

Enough already.

Not true. If we don't gain fat we actually get smaller. But we all gain fat in today's world, unless we are gym rats, and bulk up.

And Gwynn was just a fattie. His voice probably would have dropped a few octaves if he used. The other guys, except for Yaz, are dirty, I'm sure. Yaz probably like his beer and kielbasi.

**pappag** · 05-31-2007, 03:41 PM

Originally Posted by The AD

Not true at all. I don't know if he was ever rail thin, but he definitely wasn't fat when he started out. Heck, he stole over 50 bases one season.

You're right. He was skinny at one point and did steal 56 bases. My youth only remembers from the early 90s on.

Kirby was skinny too at one point, right?

EDIT - was just looking at Gwynn's numbers and his best 2 HR years were in 1997 (17) and 1998 (16). The previous 10 years, he was averaging 6.3 per year. Guess you can attribute it to the post-strike juiced ball era.

**smmokan** · 05-31-2007, 03:51 PM

Since the conversation has turned to Ripken and Gwynn, I'd just like to say that I wish baseball players these days were more loyal to their teams and would stick around for a little less.

**Steven S. Dallas** · 05-31-2007, 03:56 PM

Originally Posted by Nick Pappagiorgio

was just looking at Gwynn's numbers and his best 2 HR years were in 1997 (17) and 1998 (16). The previous 10 years, he was averaging 6.3 per year. Guess you can attribute it to the post-strike juiced ball era.

Wasn't he also hitting in front of (then-feared slugger) Greg Vaughn those seasons?

Big home run for Gwynn in Game 1 of the '98 Series... That Yankees team was pretty good, I guess.

**Benny Profane** · 05-31-2007, 03:56 PM

Originally Posted by smmokan

Since the conversation has turned to Ripken and Gwynn, I'd just like to say that I wish baseball players these days were more loyal to their teams and would stick around for a little less.

Ripkin was a very selfish player. His record at the end meant all.

**The AD** · 05-31-2007, 03:56 PM

Originally Posted by Nick Pappagiorgio

Kirby was skinny too at one point, right?

No. Kirby Puckett was best described as a "fireplug" from his first major league appearance on.

**Missing Sock** · 05-31-2007, 05:15 PM

Originally Posted by Benny Profane

Ripkin was a very selfish player. His record at the end meant all.

Where are you getting this from? It is sure as hell not supported by the stats. Besides I think its more likely the city of Baltimore and the Orioles organization wanted it more than Ripken.

**Missing Sock** · 05-31-2007, 05:20 PM

Originally Posted by advres

It is between me and "Missing Sock".

Here is the thread...http://tetongravity.com/forums/showt...ighlight=DiceK

He had to emphasize over 15 games and that they were regular season. I'm not too worried!

If he keeps throwing like he did lastnight I should be ok. The division is alot weaker than I expected and the run support he has gotten has been insane. I think his era is about 5 now for the season?? Will be closer than I thought, but I'm not ready to write you that check yet.

**Benny Profane** · 05-31-2007, 05:30 PM

Originally Posted by Missing Sock

Where are you getting this from? It is sure as hell not supported by the stats. Besides I think its more likely the city of Baltimore and the Orioles organization wanted it more than Ripken.

Now you tell me, what manager in the world would have had the balls to sit that guy down near the end? What, like they were forcing him?

**woodstocksez** · 05-31-2007, 05:44 PM

Originally Posted by Benny Profane

Ripkin was a very selfish player. His record at the end meant all.

Yes, you get it! Go to work every day and do your job. Totally selfish. What a prick.

**Benny Profane** · 05-31-2007, 05:54 PM

Originally Posted by woodstocksez

Yes, you get it! Go to work every day and do your job. Totally selfish. What a prick.

EVERYONE should call in sick every now and then. Especially an old ball player who isn't quite the player he was at age 29. But, hey, when an eternal record like that beckons with all the endorsements it will bring in until the end of your life, well........

**woodstocksez** · 05-31-2007, 05:59 PM

Originally Posted by Benny Profane

But, hey, when an eternal record like that beckons with all the endorsements it will bring in until the end of your life, well........

What about Cal makes you think that was his motivation? Or is this just one-size-fits-all?

**Benny Profane** · 05-31-2007, 06:03 PM

Originally Posted by woodstocksez

What about Cal makes you think that was his motivation? Or is this just one-size-fits-all?

Cause he kinda sucked at the end. And, I'm assuming, he enjoys a nice lifestyle like the next guy. You know, "I gotta think of my family here..."

**concretejungle** · 05-31-2007, 06:06 PM

Originally Posted by Benny Profane

EVERYONE should call in sick every now and then. Especially an old ball player who isn't quite the player he was at age 29. But, hey, when an eternal record like that beckons with all the endorsements it will bring in until the end of your life, well........

Yeah, they definitely should have replaced the HOF'er with Manny Alexander (his backup, if I remember correctly). As someone who roots for the Orioles the fans wanted him to play every game. Not just for the record but because he gave them the best chance to win.

**woodstocksez** · 05-31-2007, 06:31 PM

Originally Posted by Benny Profane

EVERYONE should call in sick every now and then. Especially an old ball player who isn't quite the player he was at age 29. But, hey, when an eternal record like that beckons with all the endorsements it will bring in until the end of your life, well........

Don't look now, but they've got another one: http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/...jRQdUmKn8S0bYF.

Everyone knows Miguel Tejada HATES baseball. He is ALL about endorsements.