HELP! Stuck in the back seat with my Sugars

**kid4lyf** · 02-27-2007, 11:21 AM

Took my SDs to JH last week for their maiden voyage (under me, that is).
I've never had a problem keeping my weight on my boot shins till now.
Unless I really fought it, every turn would throw me into the back seat. It always felt like the skis were trying to pull out from under me.
This is my first time on wide skis, previously skied on Volant PowerCarves (about 75mm waist, I think)
The bindings are mounted 1cm back to avoid previous mounts.
Boots are Solly Performa 9 Race (threw that in because a JH shop tech said it might be due to too much forward cant)
Suggestions on either equipment or technique?

**Below Zero** · 02-27-2007, 11:26 AM

User error. How tall are you and how long are your poles?

**Damian Sanders** · 02-27-2007, 11:34 AM

What bindings? Sometimes too little ramp angle can screw you up.

I also don't understand what the tech is saying about "forward cant". Not having enough forward lean (or not enough binding ramp compared to what you're used to), will make it hard to get forward on a ski. Having too much forward lean will wear out your quad muscles, and make it too easy to weight the front of the ski.

Oh, and a -1cm should be clearly noticeable, and you will have to get your weight a bit forward to find the sweet spot of the ski. If the line on the SD's is pretty far back to begin with, a -1cm mount could really throw you off.

**Below Zero** · 02-27-2007, 11:36 AM

The line of the Sugar Daddy, IMO, is already far back.

**kid4lyf** · 02-27-2007, 11:40 AM

6'-0" 52" poles
FK race models (8-18)
The bindings are mounted to the Atomic plate.
I think I can slot the plate mounting holes to get me back to center.

Yea, he said too much forward lean could tend to pull the hips forward and shoulders back.

**Below Zero** · 02-27-2007, 11:53 AM

I would suggest getting some shorter poles. 52" is very long for someone your height. The shorter poles will allow you to get more forward position.

LT · 02-27-2007, 12:22 PM

The SD is also significantly stiffer than the Powercarve. Volants tend to be damp and forgiving, don't think anyone would claim the same about an Atomic. If you get in the back seat at all the Atomic is going to spank you where the Volant was easy to recover from.

**Spats** · 02-27-2007, 01:23 PM

Originally Posted by Below Zero

I would suggest getting some shorter poles. 52" is very long for someone your height. The shorter poles will allow you to get more forward position.

This is the correct answer.

I would go no longer than 125cm (49"), and recommend trying 120cm (47"). It should be easy to borrow a pair and try skiing a day with them before buying (or just cutting down your current poles).

In my experience, the standard rule of "upside down and grab under the pole basket" leaves advanced skiers with too long a pole.

**Steven S. Dallas** · 02-27-2007, 01:28 PM

Originally Posted by Spats

In my experience, the standard rule of "upside down and grab under the pole basket" leaves advanced skiers with too long a pole.

Totally. The best thing I've done for my skiing in the last couple years is going down to a 45", and I think I could go shorter (I'm 5'8" and a little).

**trainnvain** · 02-27-2007, 01:29 PM

I'm 5'11" and use a 48" pole (46" now for bump season).

**fez** · 02-27-2007, 01:31 PM

Originally Posted by Spats

This is the correct answer.

I would go no longer than 125cm (49"), and recommend trying 120cm (47"). It should be easy to borrow a pair and try skiing a day with them before buying (or just cutting down your current poles).

In my experience, the standard rule of "upside down and grab under the pole basket" leaves advanced skiers with too long a pole.

i am so glad to see someone finally saying that. i'm 6'2 and use 48" poles.

and the reason i use short poles is because when i was in high school, a race coach realized i had problems keeping forward, so he cut my poles down. been using the shorties ever since.

**kid4lyf** · 02-27-2007, 01:37 PM

Originally Posted by LT

If you get in the back seat at all the Atomic is going to spank you.

Thank you Mr. Obvious. (kidding)
Yea, 5 days fighting to stay out of the backseat in the bulletproof crud off Sublett last week brought new meaning to the word, "spank"

Originally Posted by Spats

This is the correct answer.
I would go no longer than 125cm (49"), and recommend trying 120cm (47"). It should be easy to borrow a pair and try skiing a day with them before buying (or just cutting down your current poles).
In my experience, the standard rule of "upside down and grab under the pole basket" leaves advanced skiers with too long a pole.

Now that's something I hadn't thought about.
That's why I'm here.

Shorter poles and move the bindings forward.
Check.

Thanks mangs.

**Below Zero** · 02-27-2007, 01:44 PM

^^Huh? How does Spats get the credit for the shorter pole comment?^^

No love for BZ? I see how it is!

**kid4lyf** · 02-27-2007, 01:57 PM

Originally Posted by Below Zero

^^Huh? How does Spats get the credit for the shorter pole comment?^^

No love for BZ? I see how it is!

Sorry Beezy.
Misplaced love, story of my life.

**oftpiste** · 02-27-2007, 06:14 PM

More love for shorter poles. 6'3 120cm poles. Discovered by accident how much this helped me stay forward and less upright when I had to borrow poles a very long time ago. My 12 year old was giving me grief last night for how short they are, and I am delighted to know I'm not the only one.

**Bandit Man** · 02-27-2007, 06:36 PM

I know everyone is all a "buzz" about pole length and what not (you guys are correct, but getting a little too Gapic...calm down

), but what sized Sugars and how much do you weigh? When I first transitioned from my 1st Generation XX's (191's) to Pocket Rockets (185's) they felt like planks. I'm thinking that the poles are just part of the problem and that there are some other factors at play here like the skis being a heck of a lot stiffer than a Powerkarve.

I hated the SD with a plate for what is worth...thought they skied lousy...

**brutah** · 02-27-2007, 09:52 PM

I think the problem is that your sugar daddies want to go FAST and obvisously you don't.

Hence, your skis are pulling away from you and leaving you in the backseat.

Let em go, point it and stop making all those goddamn turns, your skis will thank me.

**stuckathuntermtn** · 02-27-2007, 09:57 PM

also...stop skiing them like they are fat skis, and ski them the way you did your volants. i went from a 160cm, 68mm waist K2, to a 181cm, 85mm waist armada. took about thirty seconds to get used to the extra tail, and i just ski them like I normally ski. and get shorter poles. 50 or less. unless you have REALLY short arms.

**marshalolson** · 02-27-2007, 11:35 PM

Originally Posted by fez

i am so glad to see someone finally saying that. i'm 6'2 and use 48" poles.

thirded or fourth or whatever.

i am 6'2'' and go 48" as well

**Bennett** · 02-27-2007, 11:40 PM

6'3''

52''

Already got the handles off and the hack saw out. Go 50'' or 48''?

**kid4lyf** · 02-28-2007, 07:50 AM

Originally Posted by BRUTAH

I think the problem is that your sugar daddies want to go FAST and obvisously you don't.

Hence, your skis are pulling away from you and leaving you in the backseat.

Let em go, point it and stop making all those goddamn turns, your skis will thank me.

I've always skied fast, that's one of the reasons I went for the SDs.
I'm not trying to slow them down, I'm just trying to stay on top of em.

Originally Posted by stuckathuntermtn

also...stop skiing them like they are fat skis, and ski them the way you did your volants. i went from a 160cm, 68mm waist K2, to a 181cm, 85mm waist armada. took about thirty seconds to get used to the extra tail, and i just ski them like I normally ski. and get shorter poles. 50 or less. unless you have REALLY short arms.

I AM skiing them like the Volants. Thats what I thought might be the problem.
When I started this thread I figured I had a technique problem; maybe I had to change HOW I ski these.
Sounds now like I need to start by getting the equipment dialed in.

**gunniride** · 02-28-2007, 08:21 AM

If your bindings will fit in the space where the plate goes, you can change the ski significantly. I did this with my first pair of Sugars and was pleased with the result. The ski was lighter and performed softer, though lost some of the damp feeling that the plate offered. This is probably not the best option for a nice new pair of skis, as it is tricky to get right and the ski is rather thin in the plate groove- requiring short screws and careful installation. If you just move the bindings you may consider going 1cm forward of the center line.

The bottom line is that the SD is a fun, easy ski in powder and crud, but they are pretty demanding in anything else. You'll get used to them and become a better skier for doing so. I always felt like I was on a damn rocket when skiing mine, but now they are so haggered they won't hardly slide- they currently fill the niche of an early season BC setup with Fritchi's (which fit right into the plate groove).