Bindings cranked to 20 jong question

**Crass3000** · 01-17-2007, 11:50 AM

Granted I took off about 10 years from skiing and have only been skiing 10 days a year for the last 5 years -- and I don't catch the kind of air I used to where my bindings would pop on landings.... But I am 6' 1" 210lbs and only had my bindings at 7 or so and broke my leg badly this year -- granted I fell at a wierd angle so thats why the binding didn't pop off.

But how do you little super-hero guys say 150lbs to 180lbs crank your bindings up to 20 and not break your legs or destroy your knees everytime you fall? Obviously there's an art to falling but man cranking your bindings that high would be plain scary. In all seriousness... how do you come out without breaking your legs or destroying your knees? Please be serious cause I am actually looking for a serious answer.

**ninjabirdman** · 01-17-2007, 12:33 PM

um, if you crank your bindings to 20 i don't think you're hoping to come out of them . . .

**Greydon Clark** · 01-17-2007, 12:35 PM

Well, people do break themselves running high DINs, but if you ski fast the ski will release when needed (hopefully). You’re fucked on slow twisting falls.

**runethechamp** · 01-17-2007, 12:37 PM

Don't fall when you ski slow.

**eirikainersharp** · 01-17-2007, 12:38 PM

I don't ski my bindings at 20 - I limit myself to about 15-16. I think that if I fell in certain ways I would probably break my leg - I don't think you can avoid that. You can reduce your chances of injury by having hella strong legs and core.

I think that one of the reasons alot of us ski with our DIN so hight though is that a broken leg from a binding not releasing is a lot less serious that some of the injuries that could could come from prereleasing in the wrong spot.

**Crass3000** · 01-17-2007, 12:43 PM

Sure I understand the pre-release in a no fall zone issue. But it sounds like you guys are saying you just need to ski faster for the most part?

**Rascal King** · 01-17-2007, 12:48 PM

Originally Posted by Crass3000

Sure I understand the pre-release in a no fall zone issue. But it sounds like you guys are saying you just need to ski faster for the most part?

No shit. Ski faster. I bet you were on Salomons right?

**Crass3000** · 01-17-2007, 12:50 PM

Admittedly on Sollys.

**Crass3000** · 01-17-2007, 12:51 PM

Originally Posted by Rascal King

No shit. Ski faster. I bet you were on Salomons right?

Since you seem to be love looks so much and hate sollys... whats your reasoning behind that? You seem to have a strong opinion so you must have some good reasons.

**serge944** · 01-17-2007, 12:52 PM

It's just physics - the faster you're going, the more momentum you have, which translates to creating a larger moment at your bindings in a twisting fall. You need a larger moment to release from a higher din, obviously.

People who [justifiably] ski at a 20 din are expert/professional skiers who ski terrain where releasing could lead to death. Broken legs/knees is better than death.

**Crass3000** · 01-17-2007, 12:54 PM

Originally Posted by serge944

It's just physics - the faster you're going, the more momentum you have, which translates to creating a larger moment at your bindings in a twisting fall. You need a larger moment to release from a higher din, obviously.

People who [justifiably] ski at a 20 din are expert/professional skiers who ski terrain where releasing could lead to death. Broken legs/knees is better than death.

That makes sense. I'm a tech geek so I understand your language.

**grskier** · 01-17-2007, 02:01 PM

I don't think momentum has anything to do with it

T=F*L

the Force comes from the acceleration (in the + or -) that the ski and binding will do in certain circumstances and the mass of the skier. The length is a function of where the center of mass is in comparison to the attachment point (binding).

**Rascal King** · 01-17-2007, 02:26 PM

Originally Posted by Crass3000

Admittedly on Sollys.

Rascal King 1 point
Crass3000 Fuck All

Seriously, buy Look, much better quality and less likely to have broken your leg if you were on some P12's

**skimasterflex** · 01-17-2007, 03:35 PM

Another thing you have to consider, but that binding charts DO NOT, is the flex of a ski. The stiffer the ski is the stronger the lever you are pressuring so in a falling situation a stiffer ski will load a spring up way more than a soft one. Add to that the fact that stiffer skis ski faster than soft ones and you have a recipe for needing higher dins.

Also high end skiers cram our feet into tiny boots to hold a better edge at high speed and the smaller the sole length the higher the din setting needs to be to hold your boot.

6'1" 210lbs huh, let me guess you ski a 324-335mm boot sole? You probably measure just barely 28.0 in mondo which means you could ski a 315mm boot and if you raced fis they would probably build you a 307mm plug boot. That takes your recommended din setting and adds a good point and a half, then if you were a 3+ that would probably add another point and a half. My chart recommended setting is 11, if I skied my measured length boot and chose type 3 it would be an 8.

**strawjack** · 01-17-2007, 03:55 PM

^high end skiers?...show of hands please!

**stuckathuntermtn** · 01-17-2007, 04:04 PM

wait, i thought a soft ski, which bends more (usually), would load up a binding more. ei: the dreaded instatele on at bindings. but the load in the heel piece goes mostly into the foward pressure spring, which can pin you in the binding no matter what the din. strong counter-flex on a poppy ski could push you out of the binding, though, i think.

**serge944** · 01-17-2007, 04:07 PM

Originally Posted by grskier

I don't think momentum has anything to do with it

T=F*L

the Force comes from the acceleration (in the + or -) that the ski and binding will do in certain circumstances and the mass of the skier. The length is a function of where the center of mass is in comparison to the attachment point (binding).

Sure, if you want to get technical - It would be the time rate of change of momentum, or, more commonly known - force.

**nexus** · 01-17-2007, 04:09 PM

i skiied for years on the 17-18 mark and have never hurt myself due to not releasing...

admitidly i have snapped a ski that didn't release on more than one occasion... but i usually seem to release when i need...

although these days i dont go over 14 cause im a big fat pussy about my knees... funnily enough an elbow reconstruction made me weary

**serge944** · 01-17-2007, 04:10 PM

Originally Posted by stuckathuntermtn

wait, i thought a soft ski, which bends more (usually), would load up a binding more. ei: the dreaded instatele on at bindings. but the load in the heel piece goes mostly into the foward pressure spring, which can pin you in the binding no matter what the din. strong counter-flex on a poppy ski could push you out of the binding, though, i think.

A softer ski would absorb more of the force, which would otherwise be transferred to the binding springs.

**ill-advised strategy** · 01-17-2007, 05:04 PM

Originally Posted by serge944

Sure, if you want to get technical - It would be the time rate of change of momentum, or, more commonly known - force.

Originally Posted by serge944

A softer ski would absorb more of the force, which would otherwise be transferred to the binding springs.

NNNNNEERRRRRDDDDDD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

**serge944** · 01-17-2007, 05:54 PM

Dude, I wish. My GPA is very indicative of the opposite.

**Jumper Bones** · 01-17-2007, 07:15 PM

this thread begs for an Ogre appearance, just like a Star Trek convention.

**Damian Sanders** · 01-17-2007, 09:13 PM

I don't know about 20 din, or even 18.....a bit high unless you are in extremely good shape, a large dude, and in a small boot. And you ski like a crazy.

For a normal athletic guy, you can request a Level III+ setting, which moves you up one row on the din chart over Level III. You can still release on that setting, but it's not easy. Going up a point or two above that will make it so you almost never release, but still can, but barely. Above that, the chances you'll break something (gear or yourself - if you're not He-man) start going up quite a bit, IMHO.

**easyrdr** · 01-17-2007, 09:53 PM

I am more scared of losing a ski in the wrong spot then breaking a leg. With that said I had a brand new pair of P4's after a new mount and didn't have time to tighten them before I skiied them (they were set by the tech at a 7, I'm 5'10 170lbs), anyway I mached them right into a boulder, snapped both tips off the skis and double ejected, so glad I didn't have those cranked in that situation. I think I set a new record in breaking new skis, they lasted 4 runs.