Geography/GIS major?

**awf170** · 12-15-2006, 07:55 PM

After reading this thread it seems like there are quite a lot of geography majors here.

http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/s...eography+major

So pretty much I would just like any sort of thoughts/suggestions on it. What are some of the better schools for this major, what were the job opportunities after graduation like, was it what you suspected it to be, etc.?

**Telenater** · 12-15-2006, 08:31 PM

Geography is a field of learning and mode of thought. Geography is approaching the analysis of a phenomenon or series of phenomna and their interrelatedness from a perspective considering their spatial connections. In many cases, geography is very much like history. It's a catch all field that has spawned a great many other more specialized fields of study that span the intellectual world (Major elements of gender studies to geology and meteorology).

GIS is a tool.

Don't get me wrong. GIS is a great tool, but without another skill set to apply it to, it's merely following a cookbook and spitting out numbers and areas without context.

However, GIS is in large part what gets a geographer paid.

Geography is also great preparation for many other fields that may have you working in almost any sector of the economy (land use planning, agriculture, journalism, natural resource management to name a few).

Really what it comes down too is that the possiblities with geographic training are limited more by you than by anything else.

edit: I'm a GIS programmer and student on the fence between getting a Masters degree or Ph.D. in geography.

**ak_powder_monkey** · 12-15-2006, 08:32 PM

If you are into 6 year schools UAS has a really good environmental science program.

**Adolf Allerbush** · 12-15-2006, 08:57 PM

Geography is the universal discipline. You learn about a little of everything that makes the world go around. Applying geography to the working world can be a challenge because it is all encompassing. My dad majored in Geography and started a real estate investment company. My sister studied geography and is a writer. I myself studied geography and am working the Urban Planning and Transportation Planning field.

Telenator couldn't be more dead on when he says that GIS is simply a tool. A great tool at that....however I saw many of my classmates go into a GIS job out of school and end up getting stuck in that sort of work...which there is nothing wrong with if that is what you want, but if you’re looking to get into environmental science or a planning field GIS can get you the door but be careful not to get stuck doing only GIS work.

All in all Geog is a great field of study. I highly recommend it.

**MadPatSki** · 12-15-2006, 09:02 PM

I also agree with Telenater.

I've somewhat lost touched about Geography programs and GIS haven't as common when I was in University.

MadPatSki
BSc and MSc from University of Montreal (years when Slalom skis were over 200).

**fortysix&2** · 12-15-2006, 09:24 PM

Another angle: I am an application developer. I create GIS applications (water resources, engineering, environmental planning, utilities, etc...) using ESRI products. Our company (and our competitors) hires a lot of people in both geography and computer information systems. Specifically, our department looks for a mix in GIS, CIS, and some sort of science background (e.g., environmental).

I enjoy learning the business of different practices, as that is part of my job when developing applications. I've learned quite a bit about engineering, geography, chemistry, etc...and I get to work at night and ski during the day

**Telenater** · 12-16-2006, 12:16 AM

Originally Posted by Adolf Allerbush

however I saw many of my classmates go into a GIS job out of school and end up getting stuck in that sort of work...which there is nothing wrong with if that is what you want, but if you’re looking to get into environmental science or a planning field GIS can get you the door but be careful not to get stuck doing only GIS work.

It all depends, I actually do GIS development (also with ESRI products) for urban growth modeling with an eye towards natural resource protection (and ecosystem services valuation). I spend most of my time in front of a computer, and would love to be able to get out more in the field, but I also acknowledge that I can make a bigger difference by being in front of the computer doing the analysis and being the link that communicates findings to the planners, environmentalists, and communities involved.

I've gotten to be in the middle of some very interesting work in the past couple years. It's an exciting time in the region where urban, conservation, and economic planning intersect.

As far as good schools go, there are actually a lot of them. Most of the major universities have a reasonable department with a few notable faculty members. Ones that come to mind... UCLA, USC, UC Berkeley, U. Co, Boulder, U. Wisconsin, Madison and SUNY Buffalo (GIS specific). But, also realize that different schools will have different emphases within the larger field of geograpny. Some specialize in physical geography (geomorphology, hydrology, geology, and the ostensible "earth science") others will have strong "human geography" programs (cultural, ethnic, gender, economic) and other may specialize in the technical (geostatistical, GIS, quantitative methods) though all will have elements of all of the above.

**Sethpistol1** · 12-17-2006, 06:54 PM

I got a Geography/Nat. resource mgt degree from Univ. of Wyo. I enjoyed the shit out of getting it...fun field. I now work for an engineering firm, surveying and drafting. You'll definately score a good job with a GIS background.

**PaSucks** · 12-17-2006, 08:28 PM

I just finished my degree with a double major in environmental studies and geography. I like GIS and have done a few internships with it. I have applied for a few jobs but probably won't hear anything until January.

**mcsquared** · 12-18-2006, 09:22 AM

As was said before. GIS is a tool. Geography is a major. But the cool thing about learning GIS skills is that you can apply them to virtually any discipline. Business, engineering, biology, environmental, math/stats, sociology etc etc. I also am a ESRI application developer and its OK. Lots of jobs out there if you know your stuff. And a few if you can fake it like I do on a daily basis.

While I have the attention of all the ESRI nerds. A big fat e-hug will go out to somnebody who can solve this problem for me: I have two identical featureclasses, each from different points in time. I want to know which features have been added/deleted/modified. Each featureclass has about 750,000 records. I have tried a few different tools and arcmap chokes on its own bile everytime. Any ideas?

**Telenater** · 12-18-2006, 10:52 AM

Originally Posted by mcsquared

While I have the attention of all the ESRI nerds. A big fat e-hug will go out to somnebody who can solve this problem for me: I have two identical featureclasses, each from different points in time. I want to know which features have been added/deleted/modified. Each featureclass has about 750,000 records. I have tried a few different tools and arcmap chokes on its own bile everytime. Any ideas?

I'd consider moving both feature classes into a geodatabase feature dataset and establish a topology with the "Boundary must be covered by" (This'll require also converting each polygon to a polyline type. Run this both ways, and you'll have a list of all polygons that have borders that don't match the other. The same might also be accomplished using the "Area boundary must be covered by boundary of" rule.

Depending on how complex the datasets are, you might need to do this in SDE or a file geodatabase.

**NorCascader** · 12-18-2006, 01:28 PM

I would consider going into the survey field. GIS is hot right now...with some CAD, ARCview and survey background you will be in high demand.

We are putting together a GIS map, with survey data for a hydroelectric project right now. Intersting stuff, BUT...prepared to be an office rat

**F#*k you cat** · 12-18-2006, 01:56 PM

I agree with telelnator. GIS is a great career choice. I have been lucky enough to work in some aspect or another of GIS for 10 years. At first I was a Digital Cartographer for the USFS digitizing. I did that for 5 years without a Ipod 96-2001. After that GIS for commerical real estate MapInfo, and GIS for a major mineral exploration firm in SLC (can you guess which one). I am currently the GIS analyst for a Natural Resources, Environmental firm in SLC (ESRI products). One thing I have found is that jobs are few (Utah) and there is high competition locally. Nationally is most likely different because Utah is always a bit strange. Good luck

P-16

**awf170** · 12-18-2006, 07:08 PM

Thanks for all the info guys.

Any opinions on the U of Utah's geography department? Any good geography departments in the North East?

**PaSucks** · 12-18-2006, 07:12 PM

According to my professor Penn State has the best geography department in the world, but fuck Penn State, don't go there!

**Pura Vida** · 12-18-2006, 08:36 PM

Telenater has a lot of good advice, (except he forgot UCSB as one of the "epicenters"

. A Geography degree w/ an emphasis in technical skills will open many doors. Choosing Geography as a major was one of the best choices I've ever made. The skills learned are applicable in so many different ways that it will give you a lot of options. After graduating I was getting offers for well paid jobs while my friends graduating with other degrees were left waiting tables. While GIS is a very important tool, Telenater is right that you need a knowledge base to be able to apply it. This is what will separate you from some yahoo that took a few GIS classes at a "tech school." So make sure to blend both. I had many friends doing environmental studies as well which has a lot of similar classes; their main gripe was the lack of emphasis on technical skills, which a Geography degree will give you. Everyone I keep in contact from my graduating class is very happy with their major choice and is involved in something related with what they learned in school, which seems rare for a lot of majors. Anyways, the downsides are the well paying jobs often result in being a desk jockey, but often the perks are many. My job now is great and allows for a lot of time to get to the mountains, my only complaint is our damn IT dept. switched their filtering software and TGR is no longer available. Well it's a good job for now and I will likely head back to school for a master's in the next 2 years. Anyways it's a great major choice, highly recommended!

**MadPatSki** · 12-18-2006, 10:26 PM

I don't know much about American Geography programs, however UBC was excellent in my days. Great place if you like skiing also.

In the East: McGill. University of Montreal and Laval U (in Quebec City) are also great however you would need to own French for these two.

**Telenater** · 12-21-2006, 07:33 PM

Originally Posted by Pura Vida

except he forgot UCSB as one of the "epicenters"

.

Yes, that was a very significant omission. UCSB is one of the better GIS/Remote sensing schools around. Notably Jeff Dozier et al.

**BakerBoy** · 12-21-2006, 10:51 PM

The few GIS guys I know around here get paid under $15 an hour to drive their personal vehicles around to pour mud into a wheelbarrow, collect samples, and get coffee for their bosses. Sounds like fun...

**Telenater** · 12-22-2006, 01:50 AM

Originally Posted by BakerBoy

The few GIS guys I know around here get paid under $15 an hour to drive their personal vehicles around to pour mud into a wheelbarrow, collect samples, and get coffee for their bosses. Sounds like fun...

That's the difference between a GIS person who has a couple GIS classes in college, and one who also has programming and/or database design skills. GIS can be done on a number of levels. A person can have minimal skills and get employed at a minimal level, but the pay can go up pretty steeply with a larger and more technical skill set. I've been contributing to the creation of a curriculum for a GIS certification and I've been fighting with some of the cookbook GIS folks over whether there shouldn't also be some real programming and database requirements. I feel that a GIS curriculum does it's students a significant disservice if it doesn't expose them to the hardware and software that supports a GIS operation.

**Adolf Allerbush** · 12-22-2006, 01:21 PM

Originally Posted by BakerBoy

The few GIS guys I know around here get paid under $15 an hour to drive their personal vehicles around to pour mud into a wheelbarrow, collect samples, and get coffee for their bosses. Sounds like fun...

Yeah, if you're finishing a 4-year degree in Geog/Env. Science/Env. Planning and you settle for a job like that you're doing yourself a disservice. Those gigs are for people interning in college or for the people that took a two or three course certification to add to their High School diploma. Not really a good example of what sort of jobs are out there for people in the Geography field.

**awf170** · 03-28-2007, 06:24 PM

Bump...

Right now I'm on the fence between Geography and Environmental Engineering. Opinions?

**Adolf Allerbush** · 03-29-2007, 09:24 AM

Monetarily I would suggest Env Engineering but if you're good with making a fairly modest salary then geography is probably easier as far as studies go. I think you'll have an easier time getting a job out of school if you do Env Engineering as there is a shortage of engineers in general.

Do you know what you specifically want to do in the environmental field?

**awf170** · 03-29-2007, 01:26 PM

Originally Posted by Adolf Allerbush

Monetarily I would suggest Env Engineering but if you're good with making a fairly modest salary then geography is probably easier as far as studies go. I think you'll have an easier time getting a job out of school if you do Env Engineering as there is a shortage of engineers in general.

Do you know what you specifically want to do in the environmental field?

No idea.

I think I'll have a better idea after visiting and talking to a few students/teachers next week at UVM.

**Telenater** · 03-29-2007, 05:08 PM

Originally Posted by awf170

Bump...

Right now I'm on the fence between Geography and Environmental Engineering. Opinions?

Consider doing both if you can. Geography is very complementary with almost any field of study.

There are definitely times that I regret not picking up the env eng degree and got an env. Biology with mathematical modeling. I took all the same math, physics, biology, and chem, but avoided some of the engineering specific classes that turn out to have been potentially useful.