PSA: Duracell Powepix in your Avy Beacon

**telechuck** · 12-05-2006, 11:52 AM

This weekend while doing some beacon checks in the parking lot, I discovered my beacon would transmit, but not receive. Odd, the batteries are new, read 99% and the beacon is only four months old. We couldn't figure it out and decided we would keep the terrain mellow and I would go first so that my two partners could find me or the other if something should go wrong. (feel free to armchair quarterback this, but we skied super mellow terrain and both partners, PowderPig and Ms. Telechuck were completely ok with our decisions).

Luckily BCA is here in Boulder and I took my beacon in there yesterday. We played around a while and it was still acting weird. We then put different batteries in my beacon and voila, it worked fine. We put my batteries in a new beacon and it did not work.

I was using Duracell Powerpix batteries. I grabbed these at the store as I thought, "oh, these should last longer and are designed for electroic equipment."

Be warned, do not put these batteries in your beacon. They are featured prominently at battery displays, so watch what you grab.

I spent some time online looking at spec sheets and find no difference between the batteries that should allow this to happen. But, I am not an engineer and do not understand everything I read on this stuff.

Lessons: just use "regular" batteries and test your beacon every time you go out.

Also, props to the customer service folks at BCA who had me in their office for 30 minutes yesterday trying to figure out what was wrong.

**pechelman** · 12-05-2006, 11:55 AM

um wow thats freaking weird

good to know, thanks telechuck

only theory Ive got is that when in recieve mode, the drain \ power requirements are a bit higher and the battery might not have been able to support that for whatever reason. Anyone who has more insight, Id be curious to know whats going on and why this would happen.

**cmsummit** · 12-05-2006, 11:59 AM

thanks for the heads up.

**hutash** · 12-05-2006, 11:59 AM

Good reason to ALWAYS do a beacon check at the start of the day (and during long tours). Interesting effect, let us know if you contact duracell, and what they say. It would seem logical to use such batteries. The only thing I have heard is not to use NiCad or other rechargeable, but I would have thought any alkaline battery would do.

**telechuck** · 12-05-2006, 12:02 PM

Originally Posted by hutash

The only thing I have heard is not to use NiCad or other rechargeable, but I would have thought any alkaline battery would do.

This is exactly what the engineer at BCA said. This was the first time they had seen anything like this. I left the batteries there, so hopefully they can do some testing, etc.

**runethechamp** · 12-05-2006, 12:07 PM

A quick check at Duracell says the battery has a slightly higher operating voltage than normal alkaline batteries.

**PowderPig** · 12-05-2006, 12:07 PM

Weird for sure!
The Powerpix batteries have a slightly higher voltage - 1.6 Volts; I would hope that this shouldn't affect the Tracker though...

**telechuck** · 12-05-2006, 12:10 PM

Originally Posted by runethechamp

A quick check at Duracell says the battery has a slightly higher operating voltage than normal alkaline batteries.

It says that in very general terms, in the FAQ, but on a spec sheet and on the package, says it is a 1.5 volt battery, just like a "regular" AAA. More a curiousity than anything.

**summit** · 12-05-2006, 12:17 PM

Do not use Lithium batteries either... their discharge curve will give you falsly high battery level readings.

**runethechamp** · 12-05-2006, 12:18 PM

AA or AAA?

**telechuck** · 12-05-2006, 12:22 PM

Originally Posted by runethechamp

AA or AAA?

AAA

456789

**runethechamp** · 12-05-2006, 12:25 PM

Duracell says their nominal voltage for the Powerpix is 1.5V. In reality, a new AAA battery will have a voltage of about 1.6V. A normal alkaline battery starts at exactly 1.5V. I don't know if this is the cause, but it's a possibility.

Edit: Datasheets here: http://www.duracell.com/Procell/productdata/#

**Ireallyliketoski2** · 12-05-2006, 12:29 PM

Did you test any other Duracell Powerpix batteries?

**Dawn Patrol** · 12-05-2006, 12:37 PM

Originally Posted by hutash

....It would seem logical to use such batteries. The only thing I have heard is not to use NiCad or other rechargeable, but I would have thought any alkaline battery would do.

AFAIK the powerpix are not alkaline.

**Dantheman** · 12-05-2006, 12:48 PM

Originally Posted by Dawn Patrol

AFAIK the powerpix are not alkaline.

Yep, their website says they are nickel oxyhydroxide. Also, there's apparently no reason to use them in anything other than a digi cam:

"The consumer will not see a performance advantage versus regular or premium alkaline in other devices. Flashlights may burn brighter, and motors may run faster but for shorter durations than with alkaline because of the higher operating voltage of PowerPix."

**telechuck** · 12-05-2006, 12:58 PM

Originally Posted by Dantheman

Yep, their website says they are nickel oxyhydroxide. Also, there's apparently no reason to use them in anything other than a digi cam:

"The consumer will not see a performance advantage versus regular or premium alkaline in other devices. Flashlights may burn brighter, and motors may run faster but for shorter durations than with alkaline because of the higher operating voltage of PowerPix."

I read all of this after I had my incident. This was simply a post to not use these batteries. They are displayed prominently at stores and do not say any of this on the package. I bought into the marketing hype that says these are suited to new electronics. I learned a lesson and am just putting this up as a warning for others.

**iceman** · 12-05-2006, 01:02 PM

I think everyone gets that, Chuck, they're just wondering why and sharing info, thanks for the heads up man.

**dk_alaskan** · 12-05-2006, 01:06 PM

Thanks for the heads up Tele, i will now go change out the batteries in my beacon, I had some laying around that a friend had left for the cam i was using and thought the same as you about being better since they were designed around modern electronic gear.

**Dawn Patrol** · 12-05-2006, 01:14 PM

Originally Posted by telechuck

I read all of this after I had my incident. This was simply a post to not use these batteries. They are displayed prominently at stores and do not say any of this on the package. I bought into the marketing hype that says these are suited to new electronics. I learned a lesson and am just putting this up as a warning for others.

And its greatly appreciated. Just trying to get to the bottom of it is all.

**Spats** · 12-05-2006, 01:19 PM

This is what happened to my beacon earlier this year after using Duracells:
http://tetongravity.com/forums/showthread.php?t=55556

Now I refuse to purchase Duracell batteries for any reason.

**summit** · 12-05-2006, 01:21 PM

Nickel Oxyhydroxide is NiOOH which is used at the cathode of both NiCd and NiMH cells... I wonder if it is the anode chemistry that was changed to get the higher voltage...

I'm still trying to figure out what these are good for... the curves suggest that they might stay above a functional threshold voltage a little longer for certain computerized devices... any EEs in the room?

I was disapointed not to find current/time discharge graphs for multiple temperatures

**telechuck** · 12-05-2006, 01:28 PM

Originally Posted by Summit

Nickel I wonder if it is the anode chemistry that was changed to get the higher voltage...

I was disapointed not to find current/time discharge graphs for multiple temperatures

Someone here has to understand the chemical reaction of this. My best guess is that there is something slightly different than a standard alkaline battery that impacted the charge going to the unit.

I was also disappointed that the graphs on the duracell site for these batteries and a stardard alkaline were different and did not compare apples to apples.

If someone wants to buy some of these or has some, put them in beacons other than a Tracker and let us know what happened. I would be curious if the actions were the same.

**Tippster** · 12-05-2006, 01:29 PM

Originally Posted by Summit

...I was disapointed not to find current/time discharge graphs for multiple temperatures

Those Guys are FAGS!

**alto** · 12-05-2006, 02:05 PM

Interesting. Lesson - always test.

**telechuck** · 12-12-2006, 10:56 AM

Here is a little follow up. This was taken from the ttips board.

"More on the Duracell Powerpix issue:
Since hearing about the issue here and on the TGR site, Ortovox has been testing them on all our beacons and on some competitive models.

Performance on the Ortovox beacons and on a Pieps DSP was unaffected. Our Tracker would transmit but not receive, much like the experiences of a few other posters.

Ortovox STRONGLY urges everyone to avoid the Powerpix in any brand of beacon. In addition to performance issues, we have no idea of their relative ability to withstand cold temps. Please use alkaline batteries, not rechargeables or nickel oxyhydroxide, like the Powerpix.

Full Disclosure: I do the PR for Ortovox."