Thinking about getting a gun for family protection

**lemon boy** · 12-04-2006, 07:26 PM

btw- keep an eye on the remington site, they often have rebates...after rebates I bought my 870 for a whopping 150 bucks...but then I spent another 160 on a 20" deer barrel for turkey hunting and hall clearing

That's the other nice thing about a remmy/mossy plain jane shotgun they're super inexpensive whereas to get into similar home defense functionality with a pistol you're looking at a minimum of 500 bucks.

**AKPogue** · 12-04-2006, 08:50 PM

Watch out, buying one firearm can lead to a harmful addiction to firearms

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**SKISC** · 12-04-2006, 08:58 PM

Originally Posted by str8line

I purchased a fireproof safe from Costco to store a hard drive with family photos and important documents. I'm also thinking about getting a pistol that I can keep in the safe loaded. I've never owned a gun and never really thought I would, but the thought of hearing someone breaking in to our home and not being able to do shit about it has gotten me interested.

Part of the impetus for this is that my sister who lives in Cancun just had a home invasion robbery. Her family didn't even wake up while downstairs the invaders cut a bathroom screen and jimmied a window open then took their time going through her wallet(left the wallet took the money) and made off with i-pods, sunglasses, etc. What brazen fuckers!

Also, our neighborhood has had somewhat continual car break-ins(including my wife's this summer) in the 3 years that we've lived here and one of my neighbors found two guys in her garage last summer upon opening it when returning from running errands.

Where I grew up in a cul-de-sac (bwa! holy shit) in a nice neighborhood our neighbors three houses over had a break in and the father shot two guys and killed one of them. My best friend at the time lived in the house and his dad walked downstairs and shot the bastards.

I do have a doq that gives us some sense of security-a twelve year-old golden retriever that would probably bark but she sleeps upstairs in our bedroom sometimes and doesn't hear everything like our old black lab did.

Does anyone have any recommendations?

What are you thinking about? I have a few that I may part with for a very good price. No paperwork of course. PM me

**bio-smear** · 12-04-2006, 09:26 PM

No kids, so I keep my .22 Browning semi-auto next to the bed with one in the chamber. We live in a small condo so it's only 10 ft to the front door from the bed, and 25 feet to the rear slider. No time to dilly-dally upstairs planning my attack. If someone gets thru my door, they will be staring at me instantly, just by virtue of the floorplan. I guess I have a fantasy that I can squeeze off enough tiny rounds quickly to take down a PCP addict on a rampage.

A lot of people will poo poo guns for home protection until they get into a situation where they really need it. A guy went psycho in a campground on the northern CA coast near Petrolia many years ago while my buddy and his fiance were asleep in their tent. Next thing they know a dude is storming around to campsites threatening to kill the campers with his hunting rifle. They were unarmed and shitting their pants. Luckily they were able to jump in their car and haul ass just as he was far enough down the row to not be a threat. They never found out if the situation escalated further because they were long gone.

**TNKen** · 12-04-2006, 10:05 PM

Personally, I carry HK USP's. Light, have a safety. Biggest thing you need to do is get some training and get to the range until you get confortable with whatever you purchase. I would probably go with a nice Smith & Wesson revolver. Simple, classic, works every time.

But, for the exotic shotgun, here you go.

http://www.tromix.com/images/8inchLage3w.jpg

**shmoesmith** · 12-05-2006, 01:04 AM

I keep a loaded .45 (clip in, no round chambered) next to my bed at all times. That said, I would never do that if I had kids. The reason for the .45 is good stopping power, good for short range shots inside a house, and its fun to shoot at the range for practice.

The reason I even have one is because about 4 years ago, I was waiting for my friend to come over to my house. At about 8:00 PM, there is a knock at my door. Expecting my friend at that time, I just opened the front door. Next thing I knew, this guy pushed his way in and was holding me up for alcohol. Scared for my life, I gave him everything he wanted...This is not the point in which I would have wanted the gun(A gun would have been worthless in the bedroom because I could not have accessed it)

The point in which I wanted a gun in the bedroom was when the man, instead of leaving my home with the alcohol, decided to plop at my kitchen table and start drinking it...He then proceeded to tell me how he was going to kill my wife.

Lucky for us, he didn't know that my wife was in the bedroom(with the lights turned out so he wouldnt know someone was in there), without a phone, and completely unarmed. All I could thing about was that if he killed me, my wife would be there, trapped, and unarmed and that he would kill her.

The man started to demand that I pour him a drink..so, thinking that since we were unarmed and had no way of getting him out of our home until he wanted to leave, and wanting to keep him in the kitchen and away from my wife, I gave him the hardest shit we had, and hope that he became too intoxicated to go looking for my wife.

20minutes later(he told me all sorts of crazy shit about people he had killed and how he was going to rob banks etc) he was so hammered he could hardly talk right. Oddly, he thanked me for the drinks, got up and stumbled out my front door. I was too scared to call the cops in fear that he would get off on some sort of dumb loophole and come back after me and my wife.

Shit like that changes you. I've moved from that neighborhood, but have never slept right since then. about 1-2 times a month, I have nightmares about people breaking into my home and trying to kill my wife. I will keep a gun by the bed, and will do everything possible to prevent becoming a victim in my own home again. We keep the outside lights on, some lights inside on, and have a big dog who doesnt take too well to men that she doesnt know.

I hope I will never have to use the gun on anyone, but if it comes down to defending my family, I have no problem using it.

**leroy jenkins** · 12-05-2006, 02:10 AM

Originally Posted by Peewee

I probably didn't read close enough, but I didn't see anyone talk about barrel length on 12 gauges that are meant for self defense. If you go out and buy a shotgun that has a 26" or 28" barrel meant for hunting, you're going to have a hell of a time swinging the gun around your house, and you won't be able to get on target as fast. What you want is a tactical shotgun with an 18"-20" barrel and an extended magazine. Like this:

Edit: 3" Mag 00 Buckshot is a good choice for ammo. And tru-glo sights will help you line the sights up in low light.

Heres my toy

Remington 870, with a pistol grip, 18" barrel, folding stock and 7 shot capacity (6 in the tube, 1 in the chamber). (ignore the ghetto recoil pad, its some leftover weather stripping I put on there tonight just to try out)

If I was to use anything for home defense, it would be this. The 18" barrel, coupled with a pistol grip, is short enough you can swing it around doorways, while the stock would come in handy if you had to baricade yourself.

The ammo I would choose would be 2 3/4", probably 7 1/2 shot. It packs plenty of punch, I really can't imagine having to pump 7 of those into anyone, methhead or not. So yea, it packs enough punch to take anyone down, but at the same time, might just leave them alive. I really don't want to kill anyone. Most people that break into a home are just there to steal shit, not to hurt anyone, and even if they were, I don't want to kill anyone. As long as I'm safe, the gun has done its job. Also, 3" magnum shells have enough recoil that I can fire far faster and more acuratly with smaller loads.

The best reason to use a shotty as a home defense gun is that being fast and accurate with any gun, especially a pistol, takes a ton of practice, and is also a perishable skill. Its not like riding a bike, or even skiing. If you don't keep practicing, you're back to close to beginer in no time. If you ever need a gun, you don't want to think "shit, I haven't been to the range in forever" you want to just be able to pick it up and hit something with it. A shotgun takes a hell of a lot less practice.

At the begining I called this gun a toy. That was on purpose. I own it because its fun to shoot, not for protection. I doubt I'll ever need a gun for protection. I just think if you start thinking of a gun as protection you might start reaching for it whenever you wake up to a funny noise at night, and eventually, an accident might happen. Nice to know its there if I need it though.

**leroy jenkins** · 12-05-2006, 02:14 AM

Originally Posted by shmoesmith

I keep a loaded .45 (clip in, no round chambered) next to my bed at all times. That said, I would never do that if I had kids. The reason for the .45 is good stopping power, good for short range shots inside a house, and its fun to shoot at the range for practice.

The reason I even have one is because about 4 years ago, I was waiting for my friend to come over to my house. At about 8:00 PM, there is a knock at my door. Expecting my friend at that time, I just opened the front door. Next thing I knew, this guy pushed his way in and was holding me up for alcohol. Scared for my life, I gave him everything he wanted...This is not the point in which I would have wanted the gun(A gun would have been worthless in the bedroom because I could not have accessed it)

The point in which I wanted a gun in the bedroom was when the man, instead of leaving my home with the alcohol, decided to plop at my kitchen table and start drinking it...He then proceeded to tell me how he was going to kill my wife.

Lucky for us, he didn't know that my wife was in the bedroom(with the lights turned out so he wouldnt know someone was in there), without a phone, and completely unarmed. All I could thing about was that if he killed me, my wife would be there, trapped, and unarmed and that he would kill her.

The man started to demand that I pour him a drink..so, thinking that since we were unarmed and had no way of getting him out of our home until he wanted to leave, and wanting to keep him in the kitchen and away from my wife, I gave him the hardest shit we had, and hope that he became too intoxicated to go looking for my wife.

20minutes later(he told me all sorts of crazy shit about people he had killed and how he was going to rob banks etc) he was so hammered he could hardly talk right. Oddly, he thanked me for the drinks, got up and stumbled out my front door. I was too scared to call the cops in fear that he would get off on some sort of dumb loophole and come back after me and my wife.

Shit like that changes you. I've moved from that neighborhood, but have never slept right since then. about 1-2 times a month, I have nightmares about people breaking into my home and trying to kill my wife. I will keep a gun by the bed, and will do everything possible to prevent becoming a victim in my own home again. We keep the outside lights on, some lights inside on, and have a big dog who doesnt take too well to men that she doesnt know.

I hope I will never have to use the gun on anyone, but if it comes down to defending my family, I have no problem using it.

Holy fuck. Hope you can start sleeping well at night. Something like that would make me want to carry a pistol everywhere in my house. Just don't let your fear of an intruder make you pull the trigger too soon, and find out it was someone you knew or something.

**sfotex** · 12-05-2006, 08:25 AM

Originally Posted by lemon boy

btw- keep an eye on the remington site, they often have rebates...after rebates I bought my 870 for a whopping 150 bucks...but then I spent another 160 on a 20" deer barrel for turkey hunting and hall clearing

That's the other nice thing about a remmy/mossy plain jane shotgun they're super inexpensive whereas to get into similar home defense functionality with a pistol you're looking at a minimum of 500 bucks.

$30 rebate on 870's thru Christmas. Picked one up a few weeks ago...

I hope a shotgun and 2 120lbs German Shepards is enough to keep the bad guys at bay

**str8line** · 12-05-2006, 09:12 AM

Originally Posted by leroy jenkins

Heres my toy

Remington 870, with a pistol grip, 18" barrel, folding stock and 7 shot capacity (6 in the tube, 1 in the chamber). (ignore the ghetto recoil pad, its some leftover weather stripping I put on there tonight just to try out)

If I was to use anything for home defense, it would be this. The 18" barrel, coupled with a pistol grip, is short enough you can swing it around doorways, while the stock would come in handy if you had to baricade yourself.

I don't see this gun on their Website.

**lemon boy** · 12-05-2006, 09:31 AM

and you won't see it there either. It has an aftermarket stock/fore end grip but appears to be based on the "Express Synthetic 18"" with 6 (7) shot magazine.

cabelas has a bunch of that stuff under: shooting & reloading/firearm components/tactical & Military (or Stocks/Grips & Accessories) Midway also has a bunch of that stuff.

IMO the straight express synth 18 comes straight to your door perfect. The normal american style pistol grip stock (how it comes) is fine and provides plenty of control and for me, I can shuck shells faster with a normal fore end than a pistol one.

**Free Range Lobster** · 12-05-2006, 09:34 AM

Originally Posted by shmoesmith

Shit like that changes you. I've moved from that neighborhood, but have never slept right since then. about 1-2 times a month, I have nightmares about people breaking into my home and trying to kill my wife. I will keep a gun by the bed, and will do everything possible to prevent becoming a victim in my own home again. We keep the outside lights on, some lights inside on, and have a big dog who doesnt take too well to men that she doesnt know.

I hope I will never have to use the gun on anyone, but if it comes down to defending my family, I have no problem using it.

This is called post traumatic stress disorder.
Go to therapy before you shoot someone you know.

**Cono Este** · 12-05-2006, 09:50 AM

Originally Posted by shmoesmith

I keep a loaded .45 (clip in, no round chambered) next to my bed at all times. That said, I would never do that if I had kids. The reason for the .45 is good stopping power, good for short range shots inside a house, and its fun to shoot at the range for practice.

The reason I even have one is because about 4 years ago, I was waiting for my friend to come over to my house. At about 8:00 PM, there is a knock at my door. Expecting my friend at that time, I just opened the front door. Next thing I knew, this guy pushed his way in and was holding me up for alcohol. Scared for my life, I gave him everything he wanted...This is not the point in which I would have wanted the gun(A gun would have been worthless in the bedroom because I could not have accessed it)

The point in which I wanted a gun in the bedroom was when the man, instead of leaving my home with the alcohol, decided to plop at my kitchen table and start drinking it...He then proceeded to tell me how he was going to kill my wife.

Lucky for us, he didn't know that my wife was in the bedroom(with the lights turned out so he wouldnt know someone was in there), without a phone, and completely unarmed. All I could thing about was that if he killed me, my wife would be there, trapped, and unarmed and that he would kill her.

The man started to demand that I pour him a drink..so, thinking that since we were unarmed and had no way of getting him out of our home until he wanted to leave, and wanting to keep him in the kitchen and away from my wife, I gave him the hardest shit we had, and hope that he became too intoxicated to go looking for my wife.

20minutes later(he told me all sorts of crazy shit about people he had killed and how he was going to rob banks etc) he was so hammered he could hardly talk right. Oddly, he thanked me for the drinks, got up and stumbled out my front door. I was too scared to call the cops in fear that he would get off on some sort of dumb loophole and come back after me and my wife.

Shit like that changes you. I've moved from that neighborhood, but have never slept right since then. about 1-2 times a month, I have nightmares about people breaking into my home and trying to kill my wife. I will keep a gun by the bed, and will do everything possible to prevent becoming a victim in my own home again. We keep the outside lights on, some lights inside on, and have a big dog who doesnt take too well to men that she doesnt know.

I hope I will never have to use the gun on anyone, but if it comes down to defending my family, I have no problem using it.

Wow, what a story. That is why there is reason to keep a gun.

I had a similiar experience. I locked my door and loaded a very shitty .22 Buckmark. The magazine spring was ruined so i wasnt even sure it would work. If they had opened my door, I would have shot them.

I too did not sleep a full night for 6 months. That night I went to the super mkt and bought some nails. I was so freaked out I nailed every window shut. And the lame part is, when the Chicago PD arrived, they grilled me for having a handgun in the city limits. They almost arrested me!!

I live on 4 acres, with hundreds around me. But in STL county. My wife is trained to go for the gun before she calls the PD. It is the only element of control you can have in such a situation.

I second the .45 reccomendation.

**Yeti** · 12-05-2006, 10:18 AM

I'm surprised to hear so many people here have been held up or burglarized in person. I can easily see how that would increase your threat attentiveness. I grew up with handguns that we used solely for target practice. They were kept locked in boxes away from the living space, with ammo not loaded but in the same boxes. Had there been an intruder in the house, we would not likely have been able to get to the firearms without being detected. That wasn't their purpose, though.

Question to those who've been robbed. If you'd been packing (for holdups) or had your gun accessible and ready (for burglaries), would you have drawn? Would you have fired? Would you have been ready to shoot for your target immediately, or would you have tried a non-firearm alternative first (e.g. yelling)? What sort of training do you have in target recognition and acquisition? If you missed or your shot was ineffective, would you have been ready for your subject to return fire? What training do you have in defensive tactics?

Second, suppose you decide that the everyday threat level of your job/living situation is such that you need to carry or have a weapon accessible and ready at all times. Does everyone agree that this means that there is a greater likelihood that your firearm will be discharged? (Obviously if there is no gun in the house, you or your kid isn't going to fire it at a person.) How do you evaluate your own ability in assessing the relative risks posed by intruding assailants versus accidental discharges?

**str8line** · 12-05-2006, 11:07 AM

Originally Posted by lemon boy

and you won't see it there either. It has an aftermarket stock/fore end grip but appears to be based on the "Express Synthetic 18"" with 6 (7) shot magazine.

cabelas has a bunch of that stuff under: shooting & reloading/firearm components/tactical & Military (or Stocks/Grips & Accessories) Midway also has a bunch of that stuff.

IMO the straight express synth 18 comes straight to your door perfect. The normal american style pistol grip stock (how it comes) is fine and provides plenty of control and for me, I can shuck shells faster with a normal fore end than a pistol one.

Next question,

If I go with a shotgun(which I'm leaning towards) what are my options(and your recommendations) for keeping it in my master closet where it would be quickly accessible and usable AND impossible for my kids to discharge? I'm not against purchasing a nice gun safe since it would be a once in a lifetime purchase and could be handed down to my kids someday, but is that the best option?

**shmoesmith** · 12-05-2006, 11:09 AM

If someone were to break into my house(I dont consider my previous experience exactly a break-in), while I was there, I would most likely be upstairs in my bedroom or across the hall in our computer room. Detected or not, I would lock myself in my bedroom and let them take what they wanted...They get shot if they try and bust into the bedroom. Other than directly coming after me,they can take whatever they want. Property can be replaced.

I would never try to go out after an intruder. As previously mentioned, that is a good way to get your self shot, or thrown in jail. As far as training, my buddy had me go through sheriff dept qualifier test with the .45(the test they take to determine if you are proficient enough under a variety of conditions and circumstances to carry that particular gun on duty).

**lemon boy** · 12-05-2006, 11:51 AM

There is no way to make it impossible, especially once they hit the age of 15 or 16 when they're getting smart enough to potentially defeat any physical security system you use although a combination locking safe is probably the best b/c presumably only you'd know the combo. A keypad style one would be better since you could theoretically operate it in the dark. You could also bolt a locking hardsided case to the wall. If you wanted to go the extra foot storing the shells next to it in one of the little fast open (either combo or biometric) handgun safes would be pretty quick too.

For younger kids the key methods are probably appropriate as long as the keys are not easy to find (but are easy to accesss). The cable locks as pictured above are good for small kids but are not burly enough to stop a teen, same with trigger locks. Remmy's locking trigger is also great for younger kids but once a kid is older and knows what the key looks like.... The remmy key is a great way to foil non-firearm savy visiting friends too.

The full court press of education is probably the best way to ensure your kids leave them alone and know how to treat firearms, then a safe, then a hard case, then the external locks.

**irul&ublo** · 12-05-2006, 12:17 PM

1.

2.

But, if you want a gun......

**Affix Snow** · 12-05-2006, 12:19 PM

Originally Posted by lemon boy

The full court press of education is probably the best way to ensure your kids leave them alone and know how to treat firearms, then a safe, then a hard case, then the external locks.

TALK TO YOUR KIDS!!!! Locks and Safes are neccesary, but not as important.

I grew up with guns all over the house. I knew where each one was and where the ammo was. I was taught NEVER to play with them or even touch them unless my father and i were going hunting or shooting. My Father put the fear of GOD in me about this. He constantly reminded me of the importance of respecting the guns AND HIS rules. He even told me if anyone ever came in the house to lock myself and my sister in a closet and NEVER think about being a "hero".

But anyway, get the SHOTGUN.

**Cono Este** · 12-05-2006, 12:55 PM

Originally Posted by Affix Snow

TALK TO YOUR KIDS!!!! Locks and Safes are neccesary, but not as important.

I grew up with guns all over the house. I knew where each one was and where the ammo was. I was taught NEVER to play with them or even touch them unless my father and i were going hunting or shooting. My Father put the fear of GOD in me about this. He constantly reminded me of the importance of respecting the guns AND HIS rules. He even told me if anyone ever came in the house to lock myself and my sister in a closet and NEVER think about being a "hero".

But anyway, get the SHOTGUN.

This is true. My son will never have a toy gun, never. I lived in a dangerous country in Africa as a child and we had loaded automatic weapons in our house, we needed them. Teach your kids to respect a gun, when old enough, teach them how to properly use it.

That being said, its not your kids you have to worry about, its their friends, kid next store. Plan for 0 probability of that happening, that would be worse than anything i could imagine.

When I was burglarized, I locked my door, if they knocked the door down, yes I would have shot them, and yes I am properly trained.

When you get a gun, fire at least 1000 rounds on a range somewhere, get used to it and get training.

**EPSkis** · 12-05-2006, 01:00 PM

Originally Posted by shmoesmith

Shit like that changes you..

It's also the reason you do NOT use a .22 for home defense. If you're going to squeeze a trigger on a man, you damn well better do it right the first time.

And Likwid - you need to move out of Massachusetts. It's turned you into a pussy.

**Free Range Lobster** · 12-05-2006, 01:05 PM

Originally Posted by EPSkis

And Likwid - you need to move out of Massachusetts. It's turned you into a pussy.

I have more guns than you and a dog that will take you apart before you can blink. I bet I can fit your carcass in an offshore lobster trap.

We have ways of taking care of bodies.

**Cono Este** · 12-05-2006, 01:07 PM

Originally Posted by EPSkis

It's also the reason you do NOT use a .22 for home defense. If you're going to squeeze a trigger on a man, you damn well better do it right the first time.

And Likwid - you need to move out of Massachusetts. It's turned you into a pussy.

Sorry it's all I had, and even that was illegal in the peoples republic of Chicago. If i had known, I would have had Bull Mastiff in my living room. Oddly enough, a pistol gripped shotgun was perfectyl legal, and the UZI a chicago cab driver once tried to sell me was apparently acceptable as well.

**lemon boy** · 12-05-2006, 01:07 PM

Originally Posted by EPSkis

It's also the reason you do NOT use a .22 for home defense. If you're going to squeeze a trigger on a man, you damn well better do it right the first time.

A .22 auto that shoots every time and shoots where you aim it beats missing with a .45 every single time.

**irul&ublo** · 12-05-2006, 01:07 PM

Originally Posted by likwid

I have more guns than you and a dog that will take you apart before you can blink. I bet I can fit your carcass in an offshore lobster trap.

We have ways of taking care of bodies.

You could turn him into some wickid chowda.