Thinking about getting a gun for family protection

[runethechamp]

I don't have much opinion on whether it is a good idea to own a gun for family protection, but I will say this: NEVER store the gun loaded. NEVER FUCKING EVER. From my years in the air force in Norway I have the gun safety rules firmly imprinted in my head, and Rule # 2 was: Never lay/put down a loaded gun. You can keep the ammo in the gun even, just don't laod it, that will take you 1 second to do if you need the gun, and a kid will not be able to load it himself.

[lemon boy]

rune- while that's a fine rule for you to have as your own protocol it is certainly not some kind of universal truth either.

[runethechamp]

That might be right, but is there ever a good reason to store your gun loaded?

[Cono Este]

Im not even sure they keep one in the spout on bases in Iraq.

Bayonets, thats a different story, I keep mine on at all time

Edit: Actaully when they hit the beach in Normandy they didnt have one in the chamber, you must live in rough hood Lemonboy.

[lemon boy]

rune-
A: Because an unloaded gun is of no use to anyone

It isn't my protocol either but some people were raised with it and it is what they're comfortable with. For them the expectation from the maxim "treat all guns as if they're loaded" is literally true. They are loaded.

I bet you'd find that most people who keep a revolver for home defense keep it loaded (harder to load in a dark emergency setting) and most w/autos keep them with a loaded clip in/near but no round chambered.

cono- I live in a nice place and don't really worry about it much but I own guns for hunting and keep one handy for hall clearing I have zero expectation of using it.

[Jumper Bones]

That might be right, but is there ever a good reason to store your gun loaded?

well, if you want to use it, right away.

I carry concealed for my job, for anti-hijacking purposes. We're supposed to have a round hot in the chamber, and the safety off at all times...so that if you do need to draw, all you need to do is get it out, and squeeze the trigger.

Now, personally, that's a bit much...the other part of my job is climbing all over cargo, like vehicles and helicopters and such, and inspecting them as well as putting in tie-down chains to keep them restrained and such (a 40,000 lb truck moving around inflight will ruin your day), and my gun has fallen out of my holster when I've bent over before, and hit the floor (inside my flightsuit). I realize that with an external hammer like the M9 has, you have to squeeze the trigger (double-action too) to fire a round, but still it was a bit unnerving. So I keep the safety on, which disengages the firing pin so the weapon cannot fire even if you pull the trigger, and all I'd have to do to use the weapon is a flick of the thumb.

[runethechamp]

Just to clarify, when I mean loaded, I mean with a round in the chamber. Maybe I have the terminology wrong on that one, but that's what I meant.

[Cono Este]

While we have all the gun nuts in one place, I'd like to know why the 1911 is considered unsafe, you never see cops carrying them, except special tac. squads. I think its a very safe gun, single action, manual hard safety etc... And with one on the chamber, and the hammer down, its pretty safe.

Stupid question, but I'm 1911 supporter.

[lemon boy]

because Glock has a fucking great marketing department. (Glocks are IMO less safe than a 1911 though)

In the real world the thing that IMO (as a not particularily pistol kind of guy) keeps most people from 1911s is that they're simply not dead reliable unless you get a bunch of work done/buy one of the semi-custom ones.

Basically any auto has more safety features than a revolver but you never hear people going on about how unsafe they are

[Cono Este]

I think Glocks are extremely dangerous, internal safety? Sure, but what if jr. pulls the trigger?

Long live Kimber and John Browning I say.

[Gripen]

I think Berreta was the orignal great marketer... Glock jumped on the bandwagon. The 92FS that many cops use, all NATO countries and many other militaries was, in its orignal form, a piece of shit. (It has since been improved)

The .45 began to dissappear when due to NATO 9mm requirements. All sidearms are 9mm and assault weapons 5.56. This just filtered down the pipeline into police forces as well. (I am sure there are some other reasons as well.)

[MakersTeleMark]

I think Glocks are extremely dangerous, internal safety? Sure, but what if jr. pulls the trigger?

It goes BANG, just like it's supposed to. There is nothing dangerous about the gun itself, it is a tool which works as designed.

[MeatPuppet]

I would take a safety course and hit the range to make sure I was comfortable with it.

Taking a safety course will teach you how not to kill yourself or someone you love. Learning how to kill someone else with it when you are under extreme pressure and your, and your families, life is at risk is something else entirely.

Take the safety course, hit the range, then when you are comfortable with that consider hunting down a tactical shotgun course. That will help you develop the judgment necessary to use the gun effectively in a high stress environment.

[El Chupacabra]

How about a flare gun?

Or 2 flare guns, Chow Yun-Fat style?

[Peewee]

I probably didn't read close enough, but I didn't see anyone talk about barrel length on 12 gauges that are meant for self defense. If you go out and buy a shotgun that has a 26" or 28" barrel meant for hunting, you're going to have a hell of a time swinging the gun around your house, and you won't be able to get on target as fast. What you want is a tactical shotgun with an 18"-20" barrel and an extended magazine. Like this:


Edit: 3" Mag 00 Buckshot is a good choice for ammo. And tru-glo sights will help you line the sights up in low light.

[MeatPuppet]

rune- while that's a fine rule for you to have as your own protocol it is certainly not some kind of universal truth either.

rune-
A: Because an unloaded gun is of no use to anyone

It isn't my protocol either but some people were raised with it and it is what they're comfortable with. For them the expectation from the maxim "treat all guns as if they're loaded" is literally true. They are loaded.

Agreed.

Rune, just as a counterpoint. My dad was military police. We had a lot of firearms in the house as I was growing up, and they were all stored loaded for the reason LB mentioned. Most of my dad's friends were of a similar mindset in their homes. We never had any problems.

I did grew up in a very strict environment, and guns were simply tools, with no stigma or romantic notions attached to them. So the idea of me or any of my friends "playing" with one of the guns was out of the question. In a less strict environment, yours is probably good advice. But as LB pointed out it is by no means a universal truth.

[lemon boy]

peewee - 00 buck is not so hot in a house with kids as is str8's

[BigDaddy]

In my experiences, (1 rapist, 3 burglaries while occupied and 1 fire completely engulfing the house), I'd still just recomend a fire extinguisher by the bed (BIG one!) and keep a large can of bear mace nearby. You won't kill anyone by mistake and you may save your house from a fire.

...But a shotgun would have been nice for the rapist!

[mnflyfish]

I agree with the shot gun idea, then keep the shells locked up. Or you could get a nice hard sided gun case andkeep the whole deal in your bedroom closet. Regardless of what you buy don't keep it loaded, especially if there are kids in the house. For a handgun, keep a full clip locked in one area and the gun locked in another. Back to the shotgun thing, if you want to put the fear of God into a intruder, the sound of a 12 gauge doin the lock and load thing will send all but the most psyco freaks running into the night. That and get your dog to shit in the front yard as well as the back and leave a pile or two when you do the clean up. Nothing says move on to the next house like a big (BIG) pile, they don't know it's an old golden, just a big dog. It's far easier to move on to the next house than risk coming face to face with a big angry dog that will bark, bite, etc.

Good Luck and by all means take a class if you buy something!
Jay

[Peewee]

You're right, 00 buckshot wouldn't be a good choice with kids in the house. My bad, not a good recommendation, didn't realize you had kids. 2 3/4" game loads with 6 shot might be a better choice. Maybe even 2 3/4" trap loads with 7 1/2 shot if you live in a small home.

[EPSkis]

I probably didn't read close enough, but I didn't see anyone talk about barrel length on 12 gauges that are meant for self defense. If you go out and buy a shotgun that has a 26" or 28" barrel meant for hunting, you're going to have a hell of a time swinging the gun around your house, and you won't be able to get on target as fast. What you want is a tactical shotgun with an 18"-20" barrel and an extended magazine. Like this:


Edit: 3" Mag 00 Buckshot is a good choice for ammo. And tru-glo sights will help you line the sights up in low light.

Mossberg 500's are often packaged with a 24" smoothbore slug barrel & a 28" bird barrel = >$250.

24" isn't as ungainly as it might sound, and you're getting 5 shots in the tube..no need for anything considered to be "tactical". You sure as hell don't need sights on a room sweeper.

[Peewee]

you get what you pay for unless you by used, that is. and at close ranges your pattern is extremely tight- the shot doesn't start spreading out until it gets out there a little ways. might as well aim at least a little bit to make sure you don't just wing them and give them opportunity to shoot back again

[P_McPoser]

I've got a beretta 92FS with a laser on the rail. I figure the laser will likely be enough to prevent the trigger from having to be pulled, but I load HydraShok just in case (no kids in the house).

[str8line]

Wouldn't it more effective to put all the time, energy, and money you will in vest in a gun, training etc and spend it on making your home a less attractive target? More lighting, motion detector lights, secured windows and doors. A ADT sign in the front yard. And maybe a big fucking airhorn that you keep on your nightstand and if you hear an intruder just hit the button on that thing and whoever is in your house will bolt. I want to go all John Wayne as much as anybody else but in reality a gun isn't going to do much good except in a few very rare (yet highly publicized) circumstances. Just make the thiefs want to go rob somebody else.

I now always have my house super well lit at night outside, and leave on several lights inside as well. Unfortunately the night they got into my wifes car I somehow forgot to turn the lights on(I only started turning the lights on about 8 months ago). I now treat the lights just like I do locking the house-never go to bed without checking.

I also already have an ADT sign in the front yard.

The fenced backyard backs to a large natural area with 60+ ft. pine trees and there is a pretty major 2 lane road about 150 yards beyond that. That worries me a bit.

My basement has large window wells that someone could easily feel comfortable hanging out in long enough to get in somehow.

I know the odds are really slim that I'd ever have serious trouble, but on the chance that someone ever did get INTO my house I would hate like hell to rely on a dog or a baseball bat to get them out. My thinking is that anyone who does a home invasion robbery is probably armed and ready to kill.

The safe would be in my bedroom closet 15 feet from my side of the bed. I like the idea of keeping a loaded cartridge seperate and the gun in the safe. I also like the idea of a shotgun with the load loading action to scare them out.

[Mr. Altagirl]

I have a Remington very similar to the one pictured above except for the pistol grip. I found a nice used one at "Totally Awesome Guns" (not kidding) for $200; it even had the extended mag so it holds 8 rounds. If you want to stop by to check it out or even take it home to see how it feels, let me know (we are right down the street). I hate to say it but in this day and age, I'm glad we have something in the house. I'm going to buy a handgun for work purposes within the next few weeks as well but the shotgun is a better choice for home use, especially in your situation. Good luck not buying anything automatic once you see them in the shops around here, they are very sexy. Utah has some strange laws if nobody has noticed.....