Another avvy safety device

[GrizzlyFD]

Has anyone ever used another safety/emergency warning device in addition to having a beacon? I am realatively new to touring in the BC, however I have a good deal of experience in the fire service. This maybe way out there, and let me know if it is.

Every firefighter (probably in the US) has a personal PASS device either on them or on their SCBA (air tank). Has anyone ever used on of these devices as an avalanche rescue tool. They are incredibly loud and very easy to spot (unless your crawling around in zero visibility smoke). They are very easy to operate and automatically go off when not moving. Seems like a perfect tool to use when descending/ascending a questionable slope.

Also has anyone ever seen a thermal imager, or camera used. Once again, the bodies contrast to the cold snow would make this a very useful tool, unless you have a very deep complete entrapment.

Any comments?

[summit]

snow is pretty IR opaque... I'd think a $10,000 thermal camera would be all but useless. you can't look for drowning victims in a lake with a thermal imager, can you? snow is still water

snow muffles sound and blocks light very well... a strobe/noise maker would be of little use. there are only a few cases where rescuers, standing directly on top of vicitms, have been able to just barely hear muffled screams.

Devices used for companion location besides beacons are probes and avalanche cord/K2 avalanche ball

For organized rescue location of victims, RECCO (essentially a handheld RADAR that uses diodes as beam reflectors (and frequency multipliers), trained search dogs, and rarely: metal detectors and ground penetrating radar....

[GrizzlyFD]

This is true about the snow, however can form temperature gradients that a TIC can detect. It's hard to think about what a thermal imager can see, unless you think about temperature's. A warm body under the snow will warm the surrounding area and a properly tuned thermal imager should be able to contrast the two. The water analogy is correct, you can't see a body under water b/c there is no heat gradient. However if you place a warm or cold object in a glass of water within a few feet of the surface you will be able to see that items heat signature.
Thermal imagers have come down in price and you can pick up a small handheld one for <$1000.
I agree with the snow/sound barrier, try screaming under water. Once again though snow is not liquid water, and there are air gaps between the snow crystals. It should not be impossible to find a sound that isn't completely absorbed by the snow. It would be interesting however if they made an integrated beacon/pass alarm type device.
But once again, I'm new to this so I could be way out in left field.
-matt

[FrankZappa]

BCA (tracker) is using thier beacon technology in the fire service now. I thought I read somewhere that the idiots in charge of that one seem to have decided to use a different frequency though - just what us FF's need when we have avy terrain within out district and respond to avy incidents once in a while or worse, are exposed during ops.

Unless victims are in a shallow burial, I don't think what you're talking about would be of any use as compaired to the capabilities (and affordability) of beacons. So I think the better way is the swing of avy tech to the FD instead of the other way around. Though I bet we could pull off some pretty cool night skiin' with some helmut mounted thermal imagers with a face shield display.