Exercise and heart rates

[Buster Highmen]

OK, so I've never really payed much attention to this stuff before, but now I know that I'm exercising for about 15 minutes at about 95% of the maximal heart rate for my age.

Is this a bad thing? With a job, family and all the usual distractions of la vie moderne, I don't have a lot of time, so I go try to pound out 275 cals in 20 minutes.

Attributes? Detriments?

[Tuckerman]

That's not a bad thing but to burn cals you need to stay in some sort of zone. Do you use a Heart Rate Monitor? A good Heart Rate Monitor will let you know if you are in your zone or not. When running I go by this rule 1 mile=100 cals or 1 hour=1000 cals. Some good info on HR traning can be found at tp://www.tetongravity.com/forums/showthread.php?t=52143 and here coolrunning.com

[altagirl]

OK, so I've never really payed much attention to this stuff before, but now I know that I'm exercising for about 15 minutes at about 95% of the maximal heart rate for my age.

Is this a bad thing? With a job, family and all the usual distractions of la vie moderne, I don't have a lot of time, so I go try to pound out 275 cals in 20 minutes.

Attributes? Detriments?

Someone better at this stuff than I should answer, but...

I also wonder whether it's good/bad to have a max HR that's well over what it's supposed to be. And how I should be calculating out HR zones knowing my actual max HR is about 17bpm faster than what the charts say it should be. I will say that exercising in what the charts say is a cardio workout feels like being a lazy ass and not trying.

That seems bad, yet my HR recovers quickly and my resting HR is decent.

[altagirl]

So doing some quick googling:

from: http://www.georgehernandez.com/h/xzm...nts/Health.htm


"Heart Rate (HR). Beats per minute. [ref]
Resting HR: HR when at complete rest. This is the standard measurement and is an indicator of basic fitness. Lower is better. 65-85.
Average HR: Average HR during an exercise period.
Recovery HR: HR 2 minutes after an exercise period.
Morning HR: HR immediately after awakening and before you get out of bed.
Maximum HR: The max safe HR during the intense exercise.
Measured Max HR. Usually measured by a cardiologist or exercise physiologist.
Predicted Max HR. An age-adjusted formula for adults.
Women: 226-your age
Men: 220-your age
HR Reserve: Max HR - Resting HR. Larger is better.
Safety HR: The target zone for beginning exercises, up to 60% of Max HR.
Max VO2: The HR at maximum oxygen intake effort, usu. 95% Max HR.
Target Zone. The % of Max HR to achieve during exercise.
Light Exercise. Maintain Healthy Heart/Get Fit. 50-60% .
Weight Management Exercise. Lose Weight/ Burn Fat. 60-70%.
Aerobic Base Building Exercise. Increase Stamina Aerobic Endurance. 70-80%.
Optimal Conditioning Exercise. Maintain Excellent Fitness Condition. 80-90%.
Elite Athlete Exercise. Maintain Superb Athletic Condition. 90% - 100% "

I don't know what those ranges really mean for you though.

But I know getting in to the anaerobic range means you're burning more calories after you're done exercising, so that's probably good for someone in a time crunch.

And the above reference shows 226-age for max HR for women, which I have not seen before. That puts me at only 11bpm over what my max should be, and I remember reading it's usually accurate to within 10bpm, so that's making more sense.

[Snow Dog]

The basic HRmax = (220 - age) is just a guideline and your actual HRmax may be higher or lower. My HRmax is quite a bit higher than the theoretical.

When I start running in the spring my HR at a given pace is a lot higher than normal. So I run extra slow. After a couple of weeks it drops to it's "normal" rate. I have no idea why.

[Buster Highmen]

As pointed out, i should specify the objective: stamina. I've always been a weed of a physique, weight's not a problem. I just want to be able to hike and ski without wheezing.

[bagtagley]

AG: You better be posting/researching from a breakfast table, getting fueled up for a long ride.

[altagirl]

AG: You better be posting/researching from a breakfast table, getting fueled up for a long ride.

I just finished an omelette at slickrock cafe and we're sitting here checking emails, and debating where we should take the dog for a hike before riding UPS.

[Buster Highmen]

AG: You better be posting/researching from a breakfast table, getting fueled up for a long ride.

The only long rides I do are at my desk chained to a kernel debugger trying to decide if the next version of an OS is un not too potentially paracrappy.

[ulty_guy]

maybe cutting back on the free-basing would help that wheezing, buster, no?

[bdog]

As pointed out, i should specify the objective: stamina. I've always been a weed of a physique, weight's not a problem. I just want to be able to hike and ski without wheezing.

You will benefit more from longer workouts. Training is specific. To increase your stamina and endurance you need to design workouts that increase the demands incrementally. Long rides (not chained to your desk) with long climbs, or long (ish) hikes. Include elevation gain similar to what you will experience skining in the Cascades.

[StroupSkier]

Ags chart is pretty accurate, however from a friend who is a trainer, they are starting to change their "opinion" on the max heart rate.

Most people cannot maintain their max heart rate for more than 30-45 seconds. Also, people are beginning to question the benifits of trying to maintain any heart rate over 85% of you max.

Unless you are in obsurd physical condition, I would not recommend going over 85%.

[Snow Dog]

As pointed out, i should specify the objective: stamina. I've always been a weed of a physique, weight's not a problem. I just want to be able to hike and ski without wheezing.

Nothing builds stamina like humping up a hill. Flat running and mountain hiking seem to be unrelated -- one builds heart and one builds legs. Find a tall building if there's no hills nearby.

[Tuckerman]

It's not bad, but it may not have the physiological effects you are seeking.

It is very difficult to keep your HR at 95% of max for more than a few minutes. Inteval work is good for this because it helps with peak performance along with faster recovery.

But 95% with a max HR of 200 = 190 bmp. That's pure anaerobic work. You are using the stored glycogen in the muscle to sustain that rate and not metablolising fat. You are not training your endurance engine at that point, but rather your red-line ability.

You do have to watch out for the old 220-age to get the max hr. It can be grossly inaccurate. At 43, my measured Max HR is 196. If I used the 220-age formula then the estimated rate would be 177. 165-170 is my anaerobic threshold - not my max. Had I not known what my true max hr was, I'd never train hard enough. I routinely train for aerobic fitness in the 145-160 range.

Edit: objective = stamina, you are better served doing long slow distance (LSD) for stamina. However, you can used steady state intervals to help reduce the amount of time you need to train. For example, if you ride for an hour, do 5 mintue or8 minute intervals where your HR is around 60% of your max, maybe a bit more. Then recover for 1 minute and repeat. Recovery just means easing off so the HR drops 15-20 bpm. Warm up for 5 minutes, intervals for 40 or so, cool down 5.

Good advice

[Buster Highmen]

I don't really know what my max heart rate is beyond the 220-age rule.

Assuming that rule and assuming the elliptiwheezer is right, I'm doing about 97% of my max heart rate for over 15 minutes.

Given the descriptions here, something in all this analysis is amiss.

First, there's my maturity. It's been clearly demonstrated to not match my age, so maybe that has something to do with it.

Second, maybe the monitor is wrong. But it consistently says I'm operating at 97% of the purported max. So either the purported max is wrong or the monitor is wrong, since I'm maintaining that rate for over 15 minutes.

When I had more time, I used to do lots of LSD. Yes, all kinds: Long Slow Distance, blotter, liquid in the eye, barrels, etc. I used to road bike a lot and hike and camp way out in the sticks. But now I don't have any time with kids and a wife who needs to be offloaded on the weekends and some evenings. So it's 30 minutes max 2-3 times a week which consists of stretching, a couple minutes of spinning and 20 minutes of really pounding it on the elliptiwheezer.

Is this 20 minutes really just wasted? If that's all the time I've got, should I just mellow it out? I doo have the ability to lower my heart rate by concentrating (it's the years of meditating and LSD again). The doctor always says I'm in enviable shape for my age.

[LeeLau]

The 20 minutes is not wasted. Exercise is exercise. However, you're probably not directing the exercise to stamina.

However, it's pretty much impossible to sustain 97% of max HR for over 15minutes. I would guess that your max HR is higher. Good rule of thumb is that if you feel you're going to puke from the effort - that's Max HR.

Maybe a dumb idea but would you be able to ride an exercise bike while waiting for the code to compile? Other stuff like walking the kids to where they have to go; climbing stairs instead of elevators. Ignore if these are stupid suggestions/

I don't really know what my max heart rate is beyond the 220-age rule.

Assuming that rule and assuming the elliptiwheezer is right, I'm doing about 97% of my max heart rate for over 15 minutes.

Given the descriptions here, something in all this analysis is amiss.

First, there's my maturity. It's been clearly demonstrated to not match my age, so maybe that has something to do with it.

Second, maybe the monitor is wrong. But it consistently says I'm operating at 97% of the purported max. So either the purported max is wrong or the monitor is wrong, since I'm maintaining that rate for over 15 minutes.

When I had more time, I used to do lots of LSD. Yes, all kinds: Long Slow Distance, blotter, liquid in the eye, barrels, etc. I used to road bike a lot and hike and camp way out in the sticks. But now I don't have any time with kids and a wife who needs to be offloaded on the weekends and some evenings. So it's 30 minutes max 2-3 times a week which consists of stretching, a couple minutes of spinning and 20 minutes of really pounding it on the elliptiwheezer.

Is this 20 minutes really just wasted? If that's all the time I've got, should I just mellow it out? I doo have the ability to lower my heart rate by concentrating (it's the years of meditating and LSD again). The doctor always says I'm in enviable shape for my age.

[The AD]

How about pound out 30 seconds on the elliptiwheezer at maximum effort and then manually check your carotid pulse for ten seconds. Use this as your max heartrate, then for the LSD (not the blotter kind) try to maintain 70-80% of this value. If I were you I'd try to vary it a little bit. Maybe concentrate most of your time in this training zone, but add a few 20 second blasts in there where you try to ramp it up to max effort, then back it down, repeat. Ever heard of fartlek training? This is what I'm advocating here. I think it will be much more interesting and beneficial than just 20 minutes at an aerobic heartrate.

[Buster Highmen]

The 20 minutes is not wasted. Exercise is exercise. However, you're probably not directing the exercise to stamina.

Is there a better way to focus on stamina in 20 minutes?

However, it's pretty much impossible to sustain 97% of max HR for over 15minutes. I would guess that your max HR is higher. Good rule of thumb is that if you feel you're going to puke from the effort - that's Max HR.

I'm definately wheezing when I'm pounding the 165 HR, but I'm not feeling like I'm going to puke. So the 220-age rule is suspect?

Maybe a dumb idea but would you be able to ride an exercise bike while waiting for the code to compile? Other stuff like walking the kids to where they have to go; climbing stairs instead of elevators. Ignore if these are stupid suggestions/

I walk when I can, only take evelvators when stairs aren't an option but I think an exercise bike in the office would be pushing the relaxed 'at moist sphere' the company likes to maintain. Plus, the place is really overstaffed, so I have an officemate, so it wouldn't be cool to foist that scene on him.

LeeLau, you'd have to have a major character transplant to say something st00pid.

[Viva]

What kind of excercise are we talking about, Buster?

I would assume running (edit- Eliptiwheezer...WTF?)as that's similar to hiking in that the same muscle groups are used. Anywho, here's a few thoughts, don't know if they really apply to you.

Start each excercise session slow and work up to your "happy zone", whatever it may be on a given day. Where you're really feeling good, hammer it, but not until you're warmed up. It may take you a couple of months of steady training to get a feel for what this is. No one needs a heart rate monitor to direct their training, but most seem to favor this crutch-like device. Feel the Force...really.

I don't think going all out every time is a good idea, especially with no warm up. I think that one "95% max session" per week is enough. Mix things up a bit and try to squeeze in some longer workouts.

Max-output for 20 minutes ain't gonna get you to where you can hike & ski all day. You're gonna have to squeeze in some longer sessions where you not only train your body to keep going, but the mind as well.

Have fun!

[Buster Highmen]

What kind of excercise are we talking about, Buster?

No winkie, huh?

I would assume running (edit- Eliptiwheezer...WTF?)as that's similar to hiking in that the same muscle groups are used. Anywho, here's a few thoughts, don't know if they really apply to you.

Ellipticycle.

Start each excercise session slow and work up to your "happy zone", whatever it may be on a given day. Where you're really feeling good, hammer it, but not until you're warmed up. It may take you a couple of months of steady training to get a feel for what this is. No one needs a heart rate monitor to direct their training, but most seem to favor this crutch-like device. Feel the Force...really.

That's sort of what I do, go reasonable for 3-4 minutes, then hammer it. When I hammer it, I hold onto these grips that have an HR monitor built in. I never paid any attention to that stuff before, I just did stuff (5k vert in < 6 hours w/45lb pack for example, back in the pre-nubbler phase).

When I do this, with the slow down/speed up that AD reefers to, I feel like I'm working, but not like I'm going to hurl.

I don't think going all out every time is a good idea, especially with no warm up. I think that one "95% max session" per week is enough. Mix things up a bit and try to squeeze in some longer workouts.

Max-output for 20 minutes ain't gonna get you to where you can hike & ski all day. You're gonna have to squeeze in some longer sessions where you not only train your body to keep going, but the mind as well.

Have fun!

I know that I'll have all day stamina issues when the planking season rolls around, but I'm just really pinched for time, so 20 minutes 2-3x/week is all I can muster.

So the question is, if I continue this, should my HR get lower if I consistemtly try to burn 275 cals in 20 minutes?

[Viva]

The better shape that you're in, the more efficient you'll become. So, yeah, I think that your HR will go down as you acclimate to this challenge. How much, I don't know. I'm more concerned that this physiologic insult might be too much for an old geezer like you, at least initially.

Is there any way that you can train twice per day? Double your pleasure, so to speak. Something like, wakey-wakey a half hour earlier than normal and do 20-30 minutes before Daddy duty calls and then do another session later in the day.

[Buster Highmen]

The HR monitors on the machines are based on the 220-age formula. I can see how it is reporting 97%. Also, the caloric count is based on hr as a measure of work. As you get more fit, you burn less to do the same amount of work.

I'm not communicating well. The monitor says I'm running at 165 BPM which according to the 220 - age rule is about 97% of max (I'm 50). The "97%" is my calculation based on the 220-age rule and the 165 BPM rate the monitor reports.

Hmm, so I'll actually burn less? That does make sense, but I think all the machine can read is how much weight I'm moving, so I wouldn't be surprised if you're right, but if I set 275 cals as a 20 minute goal, that should be an invariant amount to "work" according to the machine, right?.

I would expect my HR to go down. Am I off track?

I'd say for the time you have and for what you are trying to do, you are doing what you can. Don't worry so much about the machine's hr % calc. Look at the actual bpm measurement and keep your rate in the 145-175 range and you'll be gaining on the fitness. As you get more fit, you'll be able to go faster at the same work load. It never gets easier, you just go faster (I think LeMond said that).

OK, I'll just target the 160 bpm for 20 minutes.

You aren't going burn a ton of fat, and it won't prepare you for a marathon, but it will help keep you fit.

I don't have a bunch of fat to burn, except between my ears.

Oh, and when holding the hand-rails your work load is decreased anywhere from 15%-30%. Try not holding on and see how much harder it is. That could be a way to get more out of the workout because you recruit more stability muscles for balance purposes.

On those machines, they have these "levers" that are like poles that switch back and forth. It seems that holding onto them is easier than holding onto some stationary handles in front that have the HR meters built in.

[The AD]

On those machines, they have these "levers" that are like poles that switch back and forth. It seems that holding onto them is easier than holding onto some stationary handles in front that have the HR meters built in.

I think Bullet is advocating not holding onto anything. If you need to hold the handles to measure your HR just do it periodically then let go again.

It seems like a sure bet that your actual max HR is much higher than 170. Holding a HR of 165 might be a tad high, but probably not way out there. What you're doing right now is probably about the best you can do given the amount of time you have.

[gramboh]

Are the heart rate monitors on cross/eliptical trainers accurate?

I'm a training newb and sometimes for cardio I use the cross trainer at the gym (running motion, with hands on the levers) since if I run (5km) more than twice a week I get shin splints. When I am going hard the machine reports ~180 up to 185bpm, I'm 25 and so this would seem to be to be 90+% of my theoretical max (which as I've read above, is just an estimated range).

I didn't realize the importance of your HR re: aerotic/anaerobic threshhold and stamina training. I'm considering buying an HR monitor.

So the easiest way to determine your max HR is going flat out on a machine (max tension/effort) for 30-45sec then manually measuring? My dad did a VO2max (he trains a lot, triathalons etc) but they aren't cheap here.

Thanks

[divegirl]

Since I'm taking up triathlons again, I've been talking to people. I'll be taking a class from Total Body Fitness in Sacramento next spring, and I've talked to someone who took a class already about the HR thing. She says their mantra is training smart is to train by your heart rate - meaning, you should heed all the advice from others in this thread about your HR zone, etc.

However, my heart rate is totally fucked up. My resting heart rate is an average of 50 bpm. Once I was at the doctor's and she measured my heart rate twice, and both times it was at 47. However when I work out, my heart rate is up to 190 and that's average. My brother has the same problem, and both of us are fairly in shape. So, not everyone can maintain an ideal zone, but it's good to keep track of it. I, too, need to get a HR monitor and use it while I'm working out.....