Avalanche beacons Ortovox S1 and D3

[Great Giant]

What do you guys think about the new Ortovox S1 and Ortovox D3 beacons? Have anyone had them in his hands yet? The S1 is supposed to be fantastic and the D3 should replace the X1.

[AltaPowderDaze]

I don't think i'll purchase the S1 until it has had atleast a year of feild use (ie. retail product testers). to my knowledge they still haven't yet released the S1 to the public and its release date was pushed way back due to malfunction. I was never a big fan of the X1 but it does have its virtues. It has a very short range and like any beacon, it has its intricacies. D3 sounds like the Euro version of the X1 called the patroller. i think there are already some reviews if you'll google for them. for now, i still think the peips dsp is the best beacon for the money, even at retail. though, there is a very good buy on it online right now.

[Toby]

Seems he's a spammer for the store he's linking to, APD. Asshole .

[Hacksaw]

..... I was never a big fan of the X1 but it does have its virtues. It has a very short range and like any beacon, it has its intricacies.

I disagree. My Ortovox X1 has far greater reception range then any of my other transceivers ( Ortovox M1, F1, BCA Tracker, Barryvox, Pieps 457). In fact I have picked up buried transceivers at 80 to 90' thanks to the anolog function. Sure the sound is very faint but it is receiving. As far as "intricacies," go yes it has them like any transceiver. But, you overcome these through lots of practice. Which you should do with any transceiver.

Cheers,
Halsted

[AltaPowderDaze]

Hacksaw, the one I used was my neigbors and was eventually returned for a dsp. I got used to it really quick but the owner was not a fan of th X1 after using the M2, DSP, Barryvox and the tracker. the tracker was the least liked out of the group, then the X1, M2 and DSP in that order. The X1 could be a great beacon but I think you should ideally be able to do a quick practice with all before you purchase.


Hacksaw, do you know if the S1 has made it to production yet?

[marshalolson]

ithey are being produced, yes. i'll be at an ortovox demo in 3 weeks for the new beacons. will report back.

[AltaPowderDaze]

thanks marshal, please do.

[Hacksaw]

Hacksaw, do you know if the S1 has made it to production yet?

I'm sorry, I don't know if it is in production yet.

But, I did see it for sale in the Mountain Gear winter catolog for $595.00. I'll be at the ISSW next week, and I'm sure the Ortovox guys will have some info on availablity then.

Meanwhile, I use the X1 transceiver as my primary transceiver. I have practiced A LOT with it ( 65+ practices last winter). So, I feel very comfortable with it. The X1 got a bad rap when it first came out by a lot of folks on the web. But, I think most of them never really spent any time reading the instruction manual. And what they did was tried to make it work like a Tracker (full digital transceiver) while the X1 is a "combo" transceiver that uses anolog and digital search functions.

Cheers,
Halsted

[marshalolson]

thanks marshal, please do.

oh, and they delayed production because they changed the color schemes so they looked less like a fisher-price toy.

they are grey/blue not the orange color.

[Toby]

I found this a while back. Dunno about availability (it doesn't mention) but you can put it in your shopping cart and proceed to checkout.

[Great Giant]

oh, and they delayed production because they changed the color schemes so they looked less like a fisher-price toy.

they are grey/blue not the orange color.

Thanks for all the advice. And please report if you get a chance to have the S1 in your hands. Meanwhile, I'll look at the DSP. Thanks.

[Great Giant]

Seems he's a spammer for the store he's linking to, APD. Asshole .

You are right, and I am going to spam your ass.

[Toby]

Bring it on, JONG.

[Hugh Jardon]

Hacksaw,

Why do you use the X1 when it has been shunned by pretty much every other professional organization as the worst beacon ever manufactured? Your choice is curious to me. I played with one a few weeks ago and they still totally suck even after all the changes.

[Hacksaw]

Hacksaw,

Why do you use the X1 when it has been shunned by pretty much every other professional organization as the worst beacon ever manufactured? Your choice is curious to me. I played with one a few weeks ago and they still totally suck even after all the changes.

I think that the X1 was unfairly "shunned," by a lot of folks because of what happened with the battery issues on the M2 transceiver (BTW, one of my Trackers had the same battery issues as the Ortovox M2 had) for Ortovox. It was more that folks where critical of Ortovox because of a precived lack of testing before releasing the product on to the market (i.e., rushing it on to the market). A few X1's may have had problems, and some folks made a big deal out of those problems. There's a lot of folks out there with their personal agendas.

The other thing that I think unfairly hurt the X1 is that folks expected the X1 to work exactly like a Tracker (solely a digital technology transceiver). Basiclly, they never really understood that the X1 is a "combo transceiver" that uses anolog and digital technology. What I have found with folks that are critical of the X1 is that they haven't really sat down a read the user manual (did you actually sit down and read the manual before you tried out the X1?). And a lot of these folks never really got fully trained on how to use anolog search methods.

A lot of folks where also crtical of the X1, saying it didn't react "fast enough." Well, I have two X1's. One from the first year production and the second from the second year of production. I haven't found much if any difference in speed of following a signal. I have also found that side by side, my X1 works at just about the same speed as my Tracker. And when I do searchs with the X1 and someone else with a Tracker; I find myself getting way ahead of the other searcher. Just because I have picked up the transmitting signal sooner. I'm already in the "fine search," while their still doing the "course search."

People have bitched that the X1 is slower in "booting-up" when you start the transceiver up, compaired to the Tracker. Big deal I say. When you start up your transceiver in the morning this is a major issue???. But, people use this, to say that the X1 is "slower." Give me a break......

Why do I like the Ortovox X1?

1) I like long reciving range. That's a personal preference thing. Some people don't care about receiving range. I do....

2) I like how the X1 starts with its search in the audio mode. I was trained on transceivers, when they where only anolog with earphone. I like hearing the signal getting louder and louder as I get closer. I also like hearing (because I'm trained for it) the multi signals when there are more then one transmitting signal. This also helps in the case where there's single signal burial, but someone hasn't gotten over to "receive" and their still transmitting. A comman mistake during rescues.

3) I like how the X1 switchs from the anolog mode to the digital mode, when you get down to within 35 meters. And then you follow the direction arrows to the final burial area.

4) I like to use the grid method for my final pinpoint. Once again that's a personal preference.

5) I like the Ortovox plug-in On/OFF switch. No mistakes with turning off the transceiver at the end of the day. While working for CAIC, I had students all the time arrive at courses with dead battries in their Trackers. Because they forgot to turn it off a week ago...

6) I like the Ortovox harness system. It's comfortable and secure.

7) I like the switch for going from transmit to recieve, with the spring loaded lock. Going from receive to transmit in the case of a secondary avalanche can be done faster then most any of my other transceivers.

8) I like that the Ortovox transceivers use AA battries. For long backcountry trips and expeditions I only have to carry one type of battery for my headlamp and transceiver. True its a minor point.... But, once again a personal preference.

The main thing is that I have practiced with my X1 a lot (65+ searchs last winter). Most nonprofessional folks don't even come close to that number of practices a season. The truth is that ALL the transceivers currently on the market are good. IF... Their in the hands of someone who has practiced A LOT with it. I really don't care what transceiver my backcountry partners have. What I care about is if they know how to actually use their transceiver, because they have practiced A LOT.....

Cheers,
Halsted Morris

[marshalolson]

Hacksaw,

Why do you use the X1 when it has been shunned by pretty much every other professional organization as the worst beacon ever manufactured? Your choice is curious to me. I played with one a few weeks ago and they still totally suck even after all the changes.

can you elaborate on why you thought it sucked? just curious...

[AltaPowderDaze]

can you elaborate on why you thought it sucked? just curious...

those that don't like it usually cite the lack of range when compared to other ana/digi beacons and the excessive lag time. that's what is nice about avy courses. they give you the opportunity to see how other peoples beacons compare to yours.

[marshalolson]

those that don't like it usually cite the lack of range when compared to other ana/digi beacons and the excessive lag time. that's what is nice about avy courses. they give you the opportunity to see how other peoples beacons compare to yours.

right on... i was just curious if this was his rational as well...

[Hugh Jardon]

I think the processing speed is very slow on the X1. You literally have to wait for it to catch up to the searcher. That's the biggest thing I've noticed. Plus, they are pushing a new beacon called the D3 and apparently going to discontinue the X1 (according to Marmot) which means to me it never achieved what it was supposed to do. Good point though: practice with what you have. I find that I can generally kill it with my Tracker in timed searches vs. people with other beacons. I helped with an avalanche course last year and the students who had trackers were much faster than those who did not. The search space was 100x100m. Instruction time was limited.

[Jonathan S.]

X1 criticisms seem to stem from three different factors:

1. The first season X1a had a slower algorithm/processor (hard to know where the culprit was) than the succeeding seasons’ X1b and X1c.

2. As noted ealier, public misperception that it was supposed to be a direct competitor to the Tracker.

3. The automated nature of the analog-digital switchover, as opposed to the Opto 3000 (or apparently on the ARVA ADvanced). Plus only a portion of digital search mode features both distance and directional indicators. And no user-controllable features or additional indicators. Overall, almost kind of like an automated and partially digital F1? Certain has its appeal for some, but not for many. Looks like the new D3 will be a direct Tracker competitor, enhanced with multiple burial indicator and third antenna for eliminating spikes.

For an even harsher judgement:
http://www.beaconreviews.com/transce...htm#Ortovox_X1

But I don’t see how the M2 battery compartment issue had anything to do with it. The M2 replacement battery doors came out long after the X1a’s debut, and even after the improved X1b’s debut.

[nesta]

I think that the X1 was unfairly "shunned," by a lot of folks because of what happened with the battery issues on the M2 transceiver (BTW, one of my Trackers had the same battery issues as the Ortovox M2 had) for Ortovox. It was more that folks where critical of Ortovox because of a precived lack of testing before releasing the product on to the market (i.e., rushing it on to the market). A few X1's may have had problems, and some folks made a big deal out of those problems. There's a lot of folks out there with their personal agendas.

The other thing that I think unfairly hurt the X1 is that folks expected the X1 to work exactly like a Tracker (solely a digital technology transceiver). Basiclly, they never really understood that the X1 is a "combo transceiver" that uses anolog and digital technology. What I have found with folks that are critical of the X1 is that they haven't really sat down a read the user manual (did you actually sit down and read the manual before you tried out the X1?). And a lot of these folks never really got fully trained on how to use anolog search methods.

A lot of folks where also crtical of the X1, saying it didn't react "fast enough." Well, I have two X1's. One from the first year production and the second from the second year of production. I haven't found much if any difference in speed of following a signal. I have also found that side by side, my X1 works at just about the same speed as my Tracker. And when I do searchs with the X1 and someone else with a Tracker; I find myself getting way ahead of the other searcher. Just because I have picked up the transmitting signal sooner. I'm already in the "fine search," while their still doing the "course search."

People have bitched that the X1 is slower in "booting-up" when you start the transceiver up, compaired to the Tracker. Big deal I say. When you start up your transceiver in the morning this is a major issue???. But, people use this, to say that the X1 is "slower." Give me a break......

Why do I like the Ortovox X1?

1) I like long reciving range. That's a personal preference thing. Some people don't care about receiving range. I do....

2) I like how the X1 starts with its search in the audio mode. I was trained on transceivers, when they where only anolog with earphone. I like hearing the signal getting louder and louder as I get closer. I also like hearing (because I'm trained for it) the multi signals when there are more then one transmitting signal. This also helps in the case where there's single signal burial, but someone hasn't gotten over to "receive" and their still transmitting. A comman mistake during rescues.

3) I like how the X1 switchs from the anolog mode to the digital mode, when you get down to within 35 meters. And then you follow the direction arrows to the final burial area.

4) I like to use the grid method for my final pinpoint. Once again that's a personal preference.

5) I like the Ortovox plug-in On/OFF switch. No mistakes with turning off the transceiver at the end of the day. While working for CAIC, I had students all the time arrive at courses with dead battries in their Trackers. Because they forgot to turn it off a week ago...

6) I like the Ortovox harness system. It's comfortable and secure.

7) I like the switch for going from transmit to recieve, with the spring loaded lock. Going from receive to transmit in the case of a secondary avalanche can be done faster then most any of my other transceivers.

8) I like that the Ortovox transceivers use AA battries. For long backcountry trips and expeditions I only have to carry one type of battery for my headlamp and transceiver. True its a minor point.... But, once again a personal preference.

The main thing is that I have practiced with my X1 a lot (65+ searchs last winter). Most nonprofessional folks don't even come close to that number of practices a season. The truth is that ALL the transceivers currently on the market are good. IF... Their in the hands of someone who has practiced A LOT with it. I really don't care what transceiver my backcountry partners have. What I care about is if they know how to actually use their transceiver, because they have practiced A LOT.....

Cheers,
Halsted Morris

Like he said, practice, practice, practice
Don't care what you use, it's how you use it.
Shovellings a bitch, so get fast with it.