Beta needed: Voile Insane/dynafit bindings

[PacRimRider1]

Because it is known throughout the backcountry skiing community that all those who tour long enough will convert to a dynafit setup, I have been considering jumping the learning curve this season. The analogy that comes to mind with my current rig of b4s, Naxos and alpine boots is: masturbation with sandpaper.
So first I pick a lighter ski. I'm thinking this season's Voile Insane ski (182 length with something like 140/105/130 shape), the dynafit classic binding, and dynafit boots.
So my question is, can this handle me? I'm not a small guy (185 or so by ski season), ski fast, and like to jump off cliffs in the BC. Can the binding handle this sort of behaviour? I'm sure this has been discusses, but I wouldn't mind one more round. Also, could dynafits handle a 105 waisted ski without getting twisted out?
I'd love to drop major pounds on my rig and beat my huge touring binding friends up the hill. Any input is appreciated.

[kellen]

EDIT: My error, looked at the ski online and it's a lightweight fatty. This wouldn't be a bad combo, but I stick with my .02 below in that no matter how light the ski, if you're really hucking on it, go with some FRs.

My .02: If you want to go to dynafits, go with a lighter ski and maybe tone your skiing down a bit. If you are set on dropping cliffs, get some freerides. The benefit of dynafits comes when you are doing long tours (multiple days) with lots of vertical. If the descent is more important and you're not doing tours longer than 3 days, get some freerides.

[Sphinx]

You can't huck on Dynafits, they'll explode. Particularly if you weigh 180 pounds and are skiing at 13,000 feet with a full pack. It's UNPOSSIBLE!!



I think the Insane is pretty soft. Comforts and Freeride Aeros should handle pretty much anything. Oh, and get Comforts, not Classics.

[PacRimRider1]

I have 195 B4s with Naxo NX21s. Backcountry setups don't get much beefier than that. I tour in the Wasatch, sometimes on very long day trips (coal pit or bells canyon for example) where a lighter rig would be much appreciated. I like the simplicity and engineering of the dynafit binding, and was wondering what kind of limits it has. Can they handle 100+ waisted skis? Can cliffs be dropped with them?

I realize most of the people who use dynafits like to spoon their own jump turns and bag 10,000 ft in a day, but what I'm asking is if they can accomodate for a different style of skiing.

[col_surfer]

PRR,

I have a buddy who weighs 190 and skis Reverends, TLTs, and MegaRides with no issues whatsoever. The Insanes seem like a good ski choice for the combo of lightweight and floatation. I personally rock the Carbon Surfs, but would love to get my hands on a pair of Insanes w/TLTs. Btw, the Comforts are no beefier than the TLTs, rather they have longer heel pins and more adjustability, along with a bit more weight and cost(and useless brakes).

When entering your desired drop-zones, just lock the toes completely into touring mode for reassurance against pre-releasing. Sure, Naxos and FRs are bomber for hucking, but if you`re good at sticking your landings, Dynafits are good for 20 ft drops in powder conditions.

[pechelman]

If you did any searching at all youll find that people have infact done smaller drops without a problem. If you're looking for something that will repeatedly experience 20+ drops, its probably not what youre looking for. It is however all about good form, good landings, and soft snow.

If you're looking to go lighter weight on the boots, the freeride aeros is probably not the answer. They're pretty heavy, infact I think they weight almost the same as my solly xwave boots, but they have Vibram and Dyna compatablility. The flex limiter wings on the freeride aeros of last year are completely stupid imo, and I ground mine off. They're still *plenty* stiff.
A great compromise is the megaride. I think Id be in the boot if I could have found it in my size at a decent price.

Regarding the skis, do a search on voile insane. There are a few reviews out there and from what I remember they are floppy. I could be mistaken though.
Maybe instead consider a 188 Bro?

Regarding comfort vs classic, go with the comforts if you think dynafit is still the answer.
-Longer heel pins (6mm vs 4mm i think) <-helps to mitigate prerealeases during over cambering. Might be an issue on a softer ski like the insane.
-More adjustability to accomodate different boots (3shell vs 1shell size adj)
-Easier to adjust climbing elevation setting.

If they're not for you, you already have the right binding for big repeated abuse and drops. (nx21)

Im sure UAN will be around soon to add his 2 cents.

[PacRimRider1]

Thanks guys, a lot of good info here. I have read the Insane has been stiffened from the 1st generation ski (as well as thinned up 4mm or so), but that said, I would like to flex a pair before making the purchase. Anyone seen the 06/07 version yet?

By no means do I go hucking immediately, but I do like having the option of 15-25ft drops (which, of coarse, I always stomp ). If I set the din at 8-9, is it a true 8-9?

I think ideally, everyone wants a dynafit that goes to like 16 or so and a stiff, light boot. Until then, compromises are made in everyone's setup. I'm just trying to figure out which ones best fit my style of skiing.

[Pow4Brains]

Paging UAN.........

[soul_skier]

i would go for some 179 stiff bros instead of the insanes, thats what my tlt comforts will be going on eventually

[corn dog]

I've never even seen an Insane, but based on my experience of carbon surfs I would also suggest the bros for a biggish guy who likes to ski fast and jump off stuff. It appears that people have yet to find the limits of what the dynafit bindings can endure, so get some comforts and report back to us

[3pin]

Depends on the year... the new (ie, 06-07) Insanes got a little stiffer flex and are really solid skis. They also changed the dimensions a little (last year's were 109 underfoot, the new ones are 105), and they ski a lot better. I think they handle a lot better than the old Carbon Surf.

RE: Dynafits, if you get them, Voile makes a handy Dynafit adaptor plate for their tele insert pattern. Mount 'em up without drilling.

[jfost]

Paging UAN.........

I'm starting to get worried...

OP used several of the words known to activate the UAN-Signal and thus far, no post!?!

UAN, are you OK???

[Jonathan S.]

Here are some thoughts I wrote up on the general topic:

*****
Can Dynafits handle extremely aggressive skiing (e.g., extreme pitch, extreme air, extreme speeds, extremely wide ski, and/or extremely heavy skier)?

Yes . . . sort of:

1. Breaking the binding is not issue - there’s almost nothing to break! And the only failure modes are unrelated to aggressive skiing, specifically:
1.a. If you try really hard (i.e., the type of person who can break an anvil in a padded room), you can break the plastic end of the toe lever. (I’m not sure exactly how, but I’ve heard it can be done.) The toe can still be put into tour mode though by grasping only the metal end of the lever.
1.b. The older-style Comfort plastic toe plate can crack near the crampon attachment point when tromping aggressively over an entirely impervious surface (e.g., stomping on a wooden bridge). I’ve also heard of one report of the front of the toe plate cracking in very cold weather. This has been fixed with the new 2007 Comfort. A similar effect can be achieved by filling the hollow area underneath the old toe plate near the crampon attachment point with JB Weld and the rest with silicon caulk.
1.c. The Comfort “volcano” heel elevator can break when leveraged aggressively with a ski pole that is at an angle putting great stress upon the elevator yet somehow not transmitting lateral force to get the heel unit to change position. But the volcano is cheap and easy to fix, very light to bring along as a spare, and its absence just means foregoing the highest heel elevator position and having to bend over to switch heel positions.
1.d. The heel unit can pulled straight off at the heel post at very low release settings. But then again, in the context of extremely aggressive skiing, the release setting won’t be low...

2. The toe unit is designed to release once the heel releases. But it’s possible to blow straight forward out of the toe under extreme deceleration as well as straight up in a backward leaning maneuver or even in rapid ski recambering. One “solution” is to put the toe into some level of tour mode while skiing. The toe lever has five positions. (Sometimes one of the clicks is easy to miss, but all five are still there.) The first click tightens up the toe pincers only slightly: boot still releases easily. The second ups the release force more, but can still be released even by hand. Third has a big effect. The fourth and fifth positions are what you want to be in when actually touring. I think skiing in fourth or fifth is kind of nuts, but it certain would preclude many (most? all?) prereleases.

3. The binding is especially susceptible to the Houdini effect since the heel unit has no forward pressure spring:
http://www.vermontskisafety.com/faq_..._skiers_8.html
The Comfort addresses this with longer pins, and also by eliminating that weird bump on the TLT so that on the Comfort you could conceivably snug up the boot closer to the binding thereby allowing more of the heel pins to start off inside the boot yet still allow enough travel between the boot and the binding.
The Houdini effect would be especially interesting for a skier with the toe lever in position four or 5 - essentially it would be an insta-tele incident, but then when the skier’s heel tromped back down on the binding, all would okay again.

4. Based on Lou’s tests and others’ feedback, torsion rigidity for skiing performance seems okay. (All of our household’s five Dynafits setups right now are pretty narrow, but of the two new setups coming on line soon, one will very wide, so should be an interesting test.)

5. If more lift is needed, the rental plate and carving plate are available, but the trend in lift seems to be going in the opposite direction anyway these days.

[pechelman]

first off, great writeup Jonathan

i would go for some 179 stiff bros instead of the insanes, thats what my tlt comforts will be going on eventually

regarding stiff skis and dynafits. Ive heard reports that with stiffer skis, ala explosivs and perhaps the 06-07 179 Stiff Bro that it is physically painful to ski them with dynafits. UAN can shed more light on this since this is where I heard it from, but it just ends up transferring so much force and vibration directly to your foot via the boot inserts its just really uncomfortable.

something to think about and keep in mind.

[sar13]

What about the sidecut on the insane? 140-105-130!
It seems pretty tight. Good for making tons of turns (esp in tele mode) but not really appropriate for going fast. I haven't skied them. But...

I did have a pair of 180 Fischer 106s (135-106-123) w/ freerides and in addition to being soft they were just way too turny for trying to go fast with your heel locked down. Now I tele on them and, for me, they're perfect.

I replaced the 106s with Sanouks and would love to have another pair mounted with dynafits. They're very light for 110mm waisted 193s and they are a blast to ski. Sure they are soft but I'm not skiing them on hard snow days.

Just my $.02

[pechelman]

bump cause im curious
anyone here end up getting the 06/07 insanes?