Avie Burials and Heli Crashes- A Super-belated AK TR

[rotorhead]

I'm heading into work and looking up ground resonance. It doesn't effect my aircraft. From the looks of the rotorhead that was probably a mechanical problem. That being said Splat has a point, you can flat get your ass kicked in the mountains. I haven't flown in Ak but I have a lot of time in the Rockies. You can check winds, pressure, historicals and still not know what the wind is doing until your in it. Did you guys have a rough ride prior to the vibration? Choppy air or getting light in the seat and then a heavy feeling? =Up/Downdrafts
If you ever get ready to jump in a bird and see lenticular clouds (big flat spaceship looking rigs) just above and down wind from a peak take sled or a cat instead cause it's going to be a bumby ride.

[Karl Stall]

Oh.

Why are we talking about him, then?[/COLOR]

Splat and I were just name-dropping -- bad form, I know.

[splat]

The story inevitably brought Chet's rough landing to mind, cornhole. It was widely publicized and Chet's a buddy. Though considered by many to be a cowboy in the air, Chet had 12 crash landings behind him from his days in Viet Nam. The ground effect in GB's case sounds quite the opposite of Chet's crash on Spurr, but it still brought up memories. Chet was the first to start flying Coombs and gang in the Chugach, pioneering the landings while they pioneered the descents. Yeah, and just name-dropping....

[phUnk]

This thread shows exactly why I haven't been AK skiing.



Because I'm scared and poor, basically.

Great read goldenboy!

[Cornholio]

I get it. Cool. Sorry for your buddy, then-- sounds like anyone could get his license pulled up there.

OK, back to praising this great TR.

[rotorhead]

Gound resonance happens in three bladed aircraft with three point landing gear when one point touches down first and sends a harmonic vibration through the frame. It can be so severe it causes the the bird to disenegrate. From what I read your pilot was textbook in his actions.
Most modern aircraft usually break up from a tail malfunction or the newer composite rotorblades debonding.
If you go to Ak and you're concerned find out who the operators lease the birds from, evergreen, columbia,etc. There is a huge amount of varience out there with regards to hiring of pilots and maintanence. Some companies just seem to ball up alot more aircraft than others.
Most crashes and hard landings are still pilot error. Never fly with a guy who has a habit of saying watch this shit, unless it's me...

[freshies]

valley of the tusk and the books are $$ oh, and rfk is pretty sweet too who did you guys fly with (i didn't recognize those ships, not new era)

wow, you had a tough trip, glad you and your budies are all ok! thanks for sharing!

[bigtrubs]

Glad the Heli incident didn't turn into anything more serious. My mum was in a heli crash in '94 in the Rockies but they fell right out of the sky from high up- amazingly no one was killed then either.

[Red Baron]

Man, after a trip like that, I'm glad to hear you're ok.

Strange thing; one of the helicopter companies I used to contract with in Southern Utah for work, and fly with on occassion, lost the same helicopter in a very similar kind of incident.

Here's the write-up:
"The pilot stated that the landing/touchdown was normal. He said that he had reduced collective when the first side-to-side motion commenced. The following ground resonance separated the transmission/rotor system and the engine in three to four seconds. All occupants exited the aircraft under their own power."

And the "after" photo:

[~mikey b]

that's the shit that freaks me out about flying some days - we get into some really remote country

Coastal helis has crashed 2 this summer around here - shit happens. They fly TGR in Haines a lot, and we use them for work and play. Last summer we had a chip light way out in the Juneau Icefield, and Jim Wilson came out and just swapped ships for us. Very nice service. I'll fly with these guys any day.

[Meadow Skipper]

Wow, great write-up! Thanks - bad trips do lead to good stories.

Gound resonance happens in three bladed aircraft with three point landing gear when one point touches down first and sends a harmonic vibration through the frame. It can be so severe it causes the the bird to disenegrate. From what I read your pilot was textbook in his actions.

Thanks for that. Like YetiMan and telemike, I've spent a lot of time in helicopters for wildfire, but not very much time in Alouette IIIs so I'd never heard of that one. I was leaning toward the mechanical failure answer too.

Never fly with a guy who has a habit of saying watch this shit, unless it's me...

Heh. Or a guy who suddenly leans forward and taps his gauges. And I flew in ancient T-28s for a couple years in Alaska with this one pilot who always said during the pre-flight briefing "If it goes down, you can jump (riding in the T-28s required wearing a 'chute) but I'm riding it in!" I hated riding with that guy.</thread cunting>

[goldenboy]

Yeah, I would have to say that the pilot didn't fuck up, and in fact he saved our lives. It was a big LZ, otherwise we would have been really screwed. Having flown in A-stars before, my impressions of the allouette weren't too positive. If I go again, I'm going to demand an A-star (which is what we were told we were getting, but after all that time in the RV, we just wanted to fly at all).

Zappa- I wish I had more ski shots, but that trip wasn't really about skiing all that much in the end.

[goldenboy]

Rotorhead-

Yeah, the first landing (when the guide got out but nobody else) was rough, which is why the pilot took off again and re-landed. Then it was more rough...
But it felt basically windless afterwards. It was, however, the pilots' first time in the Chugach (30+ years total experience, though)

freshies-

I don't know exactly why, but I'm not gonna mention the company we were flying with. Shit happens, so I don't want to give them a bad rap, you know? But I'm sure somebody could figure it out if they wanted...

[skiHOG]

scrum-diddley-umptious.

[rotorhead]

GB
Those Alouette III are about the only bird I know of that still has that problem. Those things are good at altitude, but I'd fork the cash and fly with company using the A star.
My aerodynamics book literally said if ground resonance occurs you can go back up to a hover and hope the vibration stops. If that doesn't work try to land and get out before she comes apart.
This thread is starting to freak me out. I fly a bird with more moving parts than a 747, built by the lowest bidder, and worked on by 19year olds who couldn't get into college.

[upallnight]

chet got a raw deal. he essentially prevented a bunch of folks from dying.

*shaking my head*

[splat]

Is this out by the Tusk?
Looks like a place out there I almost bit it one day.

[~mikey b]

GB
Those Alouette III are about the only bird I know of that still has that problem. Those things are good at altitude, but I'd fork the cash and fly with company using the A star.
My aerodynamics book literally said if ground resonance occurs you can go back up to a hover and hope the vibration stops. If that doesn't work try to land and get out before she comes apart.
This thread is starting to freak me out. I fly a bird with more moving parts than a 747, built by the lowest bidder, and worked on by 19year olds who couldn't get into college.

never flown in those ships - usually Astars, 206, or H500

Blackhawks and Jayhawks are fun!

[gforce]

Last time I was up there we flew in an old Alouette heli for a few days. Lacks the power and stability of an A Star. It was also noisey and vibrated like hell. The pilot also spent alot of time with his mechanic on site. As you can see, the front end is all glass so it makes landing a sketchy LZ all that much more "interesting".
Glad to hear you made it out allright.

[upallnight]

by the looks of the bird, seems like you were flying with ABA or valdez heli camps.

*quiet*

[Pow4Brains]

Wow, what a story! You’re right, better late than never.

On a related “deck board” note, my neighbor was visiting his new house while under construction on Christmas eve. Instead of the board smashing him in the face, he fell down = balls square on a 2 x 12!!!! The radiologist fainted when they “checked the oranges” and he fractured his pelvis in 7 places. 9 months later he’s still having to self insert a catheter every 2 days, so I guess your trip could have been worse.

[Johnny Sicline]

Tardy TRs are great, nice write-up Goldenboy.

[ill-advised strategy]

This thread is starting to freak me out. I fly a bird with more moving parts than a 747, built by the lowest bidder, and worked on by 19year olds who couldn't get into college.

Bullshit!

You know that thing's a racecar and that crew loves you like a brother. Think positive, you'll be fine mang!

[~mikey b]

good to hear you hollerin' at someone to think positive YetiMan - things must be going a bit smoother for you

[rotorhead]

Bullshit!

You know that thing's a racecar and that crew loves you like a brother. Think positive, you'll be fine mang!

You're absolutely right. The thing is a racecar. I'm not freaking out, just fkn around. Our crew chiefs only like us on fridays when we're buying the first couple rounds. I've saved a lot of money on beers for the boys since I've been flying out of UT.