new UST tires

[upallnight]

just got some new maxxis UST tires, and i noticed the package warning specifically says "inflation should be performed with the use of a hand pump only."

i wonder if they're saying (re-)inflation post installation. don't you need to use a compressor/CO2 cartridge for the first install...or can i/should i go with the hand pump?

don't think i'll have a chance to install 'em until the end of the week.

[kidwoo]

Hah....that's funny.

That's why I never read instructions. They're wrong

Go ahead and try it with a pump. Some tires will work. Since you've got a non-ust rim it might not.

....or just go to the nearest gas station with wheels in hand. I wouldn't worry about it as long as you're not putting 150psi in them.

[lph]

Yeah, i think once out of uncountable tire changes has a hand pump ever worked.

i just use a CO2 cartridge (i think it is the Stan's container which says you shouldn't use C02). never had a problem.

[Pedro]

I can be a little Tricky, but My UST RIM/Tire Setup i have never used a compressor, only becuase I don't have one. Most Tires i have tried bead up pretty Fast, althought it took me quite a while with my Paneracer Fire Pro XCs. I guess if you are doing stans conversion you might not want to dick around with a floor pump.

[jibco]

I bet that is to protect themselves from the retards that cant use the regulator on a compressor.

I love my compressor. I dont even own a floor pump anymore.

[bagtagley]

I've gotten all my UST tires on with a floor pump. A good coating of soapy water on the beads helps a lot.

[lph]

I've gotten all my UST tires on with a floor pump. A good coating of soapy water on the beads helps a lot.

Sure, make me look like an idiot.

Have to get that technique a try. Does this include bigger DH tires as well? Those tend to give me the most problems, sometimes I have had to burn more than a couple C02 cartridges.

[Arty50]

Yeah, the soap helps. I guess there's some sort of bead wax you can use too. I remember Slickrock used that stuff when they converted my Spot to tubeless.

And don't worry, you don't look like an idiot. Just a gurly man who can't use a pump.

[kidwoo]

Sure, make me look like an idiot.

Have to get that technique a try. Does this include bigger DH tires as well? Those tend to give me the most problems, sometimes I have had to burn more than a couple C02 cartridges.

Nah don't feel like an idiot.

Some tire/rim combos work, some don't

[pechelman]

I had a ton of trouble with some maxxis tires using their tubeless rim strip deal. Didnt have a compressor and was too lazy to goto a gas station. Good thing too cause that particular tire and strip sucked and would have blown out the bead (it did with a hand pump at 40psi).

Soapy water.
If that doesnt work, get a length of paracord or something similar and wrap it tight as hell around the tire causing the sidewalls to bulge out and make full contact with the sealing surface. Then spray on your soapy water and pump like mad. That was the only way I could get mine to work at the time.

[upallnight]

Since you've got a non-ust rim it might not.

i *do* have UST rims (Mavic XM819s). does that change the recommendation?

[bagtagley]

Sure, make me look like an idiot.

Have to get that technique a try. Does this include bigger DH tires as well? Those tend to give me the most problems, sometimes I have had to burn more than a couple C02 cartridges.

Biggest I've tried has been a 2.35, and I've only used Maxxis, so don't be too hard on yourself.

[El Chupacabra]

I can't imagine trying to get the beads to seat w/o a compressor, for the first mounting when the beads are all bent up from being in storage. I use a shop compressor set at 60 psi, and still have trouble getting the beads to seat.

... but I also never use soapy water, just a spray bottle of plain water. Does the soap really help?

[kidwoo]

i *do* have UST rims (Mavic XM819s). does that change the recommendation?

I thought I remembered you saying you were using rim strips. Oops.

Yeah just go try it with a pump.

It'll either work or it won't.

It's not like it's going to make you sterile or anything if it doesn't.

[upallnight]

I thought I remembered you saying you were using rim strips. Oops.

maybe i said or implied that. could be -- i suffer from mild retardation.

the state government has forbidden me/my kind to reproduce, so even if i go sterile, it's not all that bad.

[spanky]

I thought the soapy water was just to make it easier to get the tire on the rim. Does it really help with getting the bead seated and sealed?

I've had sporadic luck using a floor pump to get a new UST tire filled for the first time on a Mavic UST rim. I always try the floor pump, if I can't get the bead sealed after several tries, I'll resort to a CO2 cartridge.

I also recommend using Stan's sealant in the UST tires as it's small insurance against a flat or a leaky bead.

[upallnight]

so, here's a quick update:
the tires arrived the other day but i didn't have a chance to install 'em until tonight.

removing the michelin dh comp 16s without tools turned out to be the hardest part. the rear one in particular didn't want to come off.

the 2.35 high roller installed on the front pretty easily. i got the bead to seat pretty easily with a (drum roll) hand pump (no shit). i was shocked. the soapy water really seemed to help.

the 2.35 ignitor was a bit more challenging to get on the rim (mavic 819 UST) w/o tools. i wasn't able to get that to seat with the hand pump, but a quick blast of CO2 did the trick.

we'll see how things hold overnight. i did put some stan's sealant (all i had) in the tires and rode around for a mile or so; i was short on time.

initial observations: the new tires are significantly less weight (duh), and they seem to be a fair bit snappier from the stand-still. when i hold them up to the dh comps (2.5"), they look pretty close in width, but when i'm riding the bike and look down it looks like a much bigger difference. hm.

it'll be interesting to take them on a real climb + trail ride and see how much faster things go.

i have to confess that i thought changing UST tires would be a *major* PITA, but now i realize it's not that big a deal. it's not as easy to get the tires on/off because you just can't yard on a lever, but if you're methodical it's no big deal. i was also worried (laziness) that i'd have to head to the gas station as i didn't have a compressor and i had just one CO2 cartridge (i never use 'em...had this one for 3-4 years). my fears were unfounded.

thanks for all the advice. much appreciated. i'll report back when i have had time to form an opinion of the tires and the weight savings.

[upallnight]

took the new tires out for a spin today on a familiar loop.

(good news: they held air overnight, so no slow leaks.)

the tires made a pretty big difference -- i was about 7% faster on a 2.5h ride. the ascent was about 2/3 old pavement, 1/3 singletrack. the tires definitely roll faster on firm terrain.

the trail was dry, loose & rocky. they definitely didn't have the grip of the michelins (of course), but i think part of the difference was that i ran 'em with a litle too much air pressure. they did well overall - maybe one or two slips on the ascent where the old tires would've gripped...and definitely a bit more sliding around on the descent (particularly switchbacks and bouncing around on rocks).

i didn't re-tune the suspension, so i'll try to dial that in and adjust the tire pressure before the next rizzide. overall, i'm happy with the combo.

[lph]

the tires made a pretty big difference -- i was about 7% faster on a 2.5h ride. the ascent was about 2/3 old pavement, 1/3 singletrack. the tires definitely roll faster on firm terrain.

much more importantly, what % slower were you on the descent?

[upallnight]

much more importantly, what % slower were you on the descent?

that's the thing...i wasn't slower. the ascent was quite a bit faster (9 minutes faster on a 1h37m ascent), and i made up a bit of additional time on the descent. (11m faster overall on a 2h13m ride)

the only explanation i can think of is that the new tires are firmer (higher durometer), so they actually rolled a bit faster than the dh/softer tires. clearly the softer compound of the dh tires affected the lower speeds on the climb a bit more -- but it still had an impact on the descent. (note: this wasn't a ride where i could go at insane speeds; if that were true, i'd expect the extra friction of the dh tires to have less an effect the faster one goes.) also, while it was a technical descent, it wasn't soooo technical that the 2.35/firmer compound tires couldn't do it. a couple notches up on the scale and i might have had to alter my riding style enough that you'd see even slower times with the new tires.

the new tires definitely felt a bit more "on the edge" in terms of breaking free from the terrain, but i think dialing in the suspension and changing tire pressure can reduce that feeling.

just set up the suspension & tire pressure (running 'em at 32.0 psi in their stated range of 30-60) and may take 'em for another spin later today.

thanks for the reminder...i definitely meant to post info on the descent.

[upallnight]

did a 2nd ride, and the time was a little slower than yesterday, but still an improvement over prior rides -- maybe a 3-4% improvement overall. it was a little hotter today...but also i had more energy after the ride and went out for a 40-mile road ride, so clearly i could've been pushing a bit more.

ride felt a little more rigid on the way down...think i need to reduce the SPV volume + reduce rebound. (ditching the spv shock + fork is not an option. )

[El Chupacabra]

it's not as easy to get the tires on/off because you just can't yard on a lever...

Why not? (levers + UST tires = bad?)

[harpo-the-skier]

I have stopped using soapy water to help seat my UST tires after I started using Stan's. Also, I use floor pumps, which work 95% of the time.

[upallnight]

Why not? (levers + UST tires = bad?)

i'm not the best person to answer this, but what i've read (and the instructions on the tire) indicate that using tools on UST tires is bad because there's a risk of deforming the bead -- and if that happens, you may never get a good seal.

[upallnight]

I have stopped using soapy water to help seat my UST tires after I started using Stan's. Also, I use floor pumps, which work 95% of the time.

i found that the soapy water did 2 things:
1) it helped the tire slide onto the rim a bit more easily;

2) it did help with the initial seal: i was outside in the sun when i was doing the tire swap, and things were going pretty slow for the first tire (my first UST tire change). by the time i got the tire on the rim (w/ stan's inside) and everything together for inflation, the water on the tires had dried up. i figured i'd try inflation without the soapy water, and it just didn't work. some of the stan's solution came out some gaps in the tires.

i soaped up both sides of the tire/rim connection, got the hand pump, and within a minute heard the pops and had the tire completely sealed.

similar deal for the rear tire, but it took inflation with a CO2 cart to get the ignitor sealed...couldn't do it with the hand pump.

i guess what i'm saying is that the soapy water can't hurt and only takes 10 seconds to try. so in the future if you're trying to do the install on some tire/rim combo without soap & water and you're not getting anywhere, realize that it can make a big difference.