MOMENT SKIS ARE COMING

[kidwoo]

Zip: you guys going to have any demos mounted up for folks to try out this fall?

[skimoore]

I've had the pleasure of seeing some Moments in action, and Zippy has most definitely not been babying the skis and they seem to be damn solid. Good enough for me...plus square tips are not the SuK.

[slim]

Iceman is just pissy because he's old and lives in Maryland.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Wow, strong words holmes!!! I never wanted to talk shit on here about Bro skis since Ron is a fellow Kwood crew member, but i might as well be honest. Slouch shares a shop with Moment. We press our own skis and do our own design. The reason there is bad blood between Slouch and Bro is because Slouch use to make Bros. Bro is a company that has other people make their skis, so the technology is not theirs. From my understanding there was a situation where Bro wanted to change their design 2 months before the skis were supposed to be done, and if you know the engineering process, you would know that you can't do that when over a hundred pairs had already been pressed. I am not trying to start a fight or cause any grief like Iceman(you get your name from Top Gun?) but dont talk shit when you are out of your element Donnie! Moment and Slouch are not the same company, or the same owners. So please, put your foot in your mouth, and refrain from talking anymore shit. Just a small company trying to get off the ground, if you want to ski together this year we can, just a good ol' time.

holy shit WTF happened in this thread?!

I'm not sure where to begin, but defiinitely feel like I need to jump in here.

As zIPPY notes below (and as many of you here know), Slouch Snowboards was PMGear's manufacturer for our first year (coming up on 2 seasons ago). And it has been well documented in the past, that this relationship didn't go very well for a variety of reasons. And that's fine...sometimes shit just doesn't work out. It wasn't a win-win situation for Slouch nor for us, and quite honestly our relationship with Slouch didn't end on the best of terms.

However, all you can hope for in the end is that you learn something from it. For us, we realized that we needed to get our own pressess and manufacturing capabilities up and running ourselves. Hopefully Slouch learned something from it as well. As for us, fortunately, things have worked out enough for us that finally, this year, we have our own press and shop, er garage , and can now do our own thing. Stoked about that.

Now Moment Skis is not Slouch. There may be a relationship somewhere there as noted by zIPPY below. And yeah, that's fine. This industry is so symbiotic that its nearly impossible for one company to get started up as a completely 100% independent entity w/o relying on some other established company for help along the line somewhere.

And yup as Zippy mentioned, we did change our original core design. We changed it because they were not made to our specs and they were breaking down during testing. So we had to change them. There was no choice. This dilemma was actually documented in this article on powdermag.com from nearly 2 years ago now:
http://www.powdermag.com/Columns/keane_120804/

That's really all the details I know about that situation as I'm not really involved on the manufacturing end of things. Maybe Splat or some others on our end can chime in who were more hands-on during this time period.

So anyway, I've obviously skied with zIPPY a bunch at Kirkwood and the Moment prototypes that I've seen looked sick. I never got the chance to ski them though. Hopefully I'll be able to though someday. And yeah fuck it, I guess we are competitors now as 2 start-up ski companies trying to make a go of it...but that's cool. Healthy competition is good for us as companies because it will push each of us to improve our shit and obviously its good for potential customers as well as they'll have more choices of skis that will be improving year over year. And that's a good thing no?

edit: just realized I sound like Martha-fucking-Stewart with that last line

double edit: yes, Brooks avatar rules it. But so does Brooks so what can you expect?

[stump832]

Just passing through to say that Brooks avatar crushes it.

[lemon boy]

shoe- Martha doesn't sound like that, you sounded like richard simmons.

[Tippster]

Kumbayah?

[lemon boy]

Kumbayah?

not quite upbeat enough for sweatin to the oldies IV

[irul&ublo]

I am here to post in this important thread and to report that Iceman has promised to take all his meds from now on.

[Arnold Schwarzenegger]

Moment Skis are coming? Vell you must be qvite proud of yourselves!

It's as satisfying to me as coming is. You know as having sex vith a voman coming.

So can you believe how much I am in heaven? I'm like uh, getting ze feeling of coming in ze gym, I'm getting ze feeling of coming at home, I'm getting ze feeling of coming backstage vhen I pump up, vhen I pose up in front of 5000 people I get ze same feeling...

So I'm coming day und night!!!

[skimoore]

I guess we are competitors now as 2 start-up ski companies trying to make a go of it...but that's cool. Healthy competition is good for us as companies because it will push each of us to improve our shit and obviously its good for potential customers as well as they'll have more choices of skis that will be improving year over year. And that's a good thing no?

Alright, alright, why doesn't everyone just hug it out??

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

i am not hugging anyone in this circus...all you people smell.

except kush...I'll hug kush.

[skimoore]

i am not hugging anyone in this circus...all you people smell.

except kush...I'll hug kush.

You can only hug Kush and remain straight if you do it off of hospital air. In fartbags. And hell, on Moment skis.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

shit, i can't now...Kush moved away

[Z]

Moment Skis are coming? Vell you must be qvite proud of yourselves!

It's as satisfying to me as coming is. You know as having sex vith a voman coming.

So can you believe how much I am in heaven? I'm like uh, getting ze feeling of coming in ze gym, I'm getting ze feeling of coming at home, I'm getting ze feeling of coming backstage vhen I pump up, vhen I pose up in front of 5000 people I get ze same feeling...

So I'm coming day und night!!!

fucking choice.


I'd like to try some commi's. they look interesting.

[irul&ublo]

i am not hugging anyone in this circus...all you people smell.

except kush...I'll hug kush.

What about the reach around?

[lph]

except kush...I'll hug kush.

I am really surprised and upset to hear this! I mean, afterall we shared a piece of banana cream pie last night!

[irul&ublo]

...banana cream pie...

What would Freud have to say about that?

[skimoore]

I am really surprised and upset to hear this! I mean, afterall we shared a piece of banana cream pie last night!

Well crap, if lph is upset, guess I should be too, I mean afterall, tyrone, we spent 6 hours in spandex together in wine country on Sunday.

[irul&ublo]

Well crap, if lph is upset, guess I should be too, I mean afterall, tyrone, we spent 6 hours in spandex together in wine country on Sunday.

Forget Freud....what would Richard Simmons say?

[skimoore]

Forget Freud....what would Richard Simmons say?

ok I'm bored...quick google of Richard Simmons quotes:

"I might as well be gay. And not just because I love rhinestones and Barbara Streisand. But because I'm a sensitive person who is supportive of gay people the same way I'm sensitive to grossly obese people and ugly people."

I thought it was quite fitting to these shenanigans.

On that note, Moment skis rule. Richard Simmons fully endorses them, as they have a fabulous shape and he loves fat sticks.

[lph]

What would Freud have to say about that?

Nothing. I meant it literally.

[Arty50]

Nothing. I meant it literally.

Dooood, you've gotta try the banana cream pie over at the Breakaway/Chris'. Sooooo gooooood.

[splat]

Wow, strong words holmes!!! I never wanted to talk shit on here about Bro skis since Ron is a fellow Kwood crew member, but i might as well be honest. Slouch shares a shop with Moment. We press our own skis and do our own design. The reason there is bad blood between Slouch and Bro is because Slouch use to make Bros. Bro is a company that has other people make their skis, so the technology is not theirs. From my understanding there was a situation where Bro wanted to change their design 2 months before the skis were supposed to be done, and if you know the engineering process, you would know that you can't do that when over a hundred pairs had already been pressed. I am not trying to start a fight or cause any grief like Iceman(you get your name from Top Gun?) but dont talk shit when you are out of your element Donnie! Moment and Slouch are not the same company, or the same owners. So please, put your foot in your mouth, and refrain from talking anymore shit. Just a small company trying to get off the ground, if you want to ski together this year we can, just a good ol' time.

Got a call on this and thought I'd better check in. The one day I was out and away from the board....

First of all, iceman is stating his conjecture based on a synopsis of information he got from me. We were talking while I was at the OR in SLC a couple weeks ago. He asked me what happened when he didn't get his skis until April of last year after they were promised in November 04. I gave him the lowdown on Slouch totally hosing PM Gear and mentioned that Slouch was now operating in conjunction with Moment. I know you’re intentions are good, ice. Don't want to start a pissing match, so I'll address what's been said so far, the reactions, and attempt to be chill for the sake of not insulting any friendships with KW mags who are friends with, zIPPY, whom I don't believe I've ever met.

As anyone who's been around for a while and who ordered a pair of Bros the first year knows, Slouch Snowboards, run by Ben Harmon, had no clue how to make a core for skis and put snowboard cores in the first Bros, which failed miserably. TeleRob and I then had to redesign the cores during September 04 on multiple trips to Mt. Hood, staying at Natty Dread's house. Harmon said he'd do all the protos for the redesign for free, since he had been less than forthcoming when he said he knew everything about making skis and we ended up in Argentina with skis that broke down almost immediately. That was only the first of many failures to keep his promises to PM Gear that spewed forth from Harmon's lips.

The next thing that occurred was Harmon promised PM Gear 100 pair of skis in November. It was almost the following summer when we, and many of the maggots who had preordered, got skis. Iceman was in that group. It caused some hard feelings around here and almost caused PM Gear to go under in its infancy. But the brotherhood was strong and faithful and waited. The whole affair did stretch some friendships that had to be repaired. While Harmon was promising us skis, he was really making snowboards. A question - while the Bros sat idle and maggots waited, was Casey was making his Moment prototypes in the Slouch factory? It seems I saw some of those skis when I stopped by to tune Harmon up to make the Bros.

If Harmon’s claim that he knew everything there is to know about making skis meant putting snowboard cores in skis, one would have to presume that's what he and Casey did for Moment skis - snowboard cores - until Rob and I handed Harmon the design for a real ski core. That design was the intellectual property of PM Gear. This has all been stated in court documents that led to a $40,000 arbitration award PM Gear won against Slouch (which they are appealing). One technology PM Gear did possess was the ability to know how a core should be designed.

I don't know zIPPY, but he has some facts wrong in his post. Yes, we wanted a design change before the Bros were ever started. Because Harmon was putting snowboard cores in the skis. I know it might be a bit much to ask of some guy who says he's the God of ski engineering to please take the snowboard core so out of the ski so the maggots can get skis that work properly, but that’s what was done. There were no skis pressed beyond initial prototypes that sucked when we demanded the skis be made correctly. And there was certainly not 100 pair already pressed, as zIPPY states. That's pure bullshit. But I'm sure zIPPY is getting his info from Harmon, who I am convinced does not know how to tell the truth. I'm really looking forward to putting Harmon on the witness stand if their appeal is granted. There's a long line of maggots who were present at the Slouch factory throughout our fight with Slouch to get the skis made, from TeleRob, to Idris, to Shoelaces, to 2P, and others. It would be a pleasure to expose Harmon’s deceitful business practices when I get him on the stand. I really wish him the best of luck. He’ll need it, given the pile of evidence we already presented to an arbitrator who ruled in our favor to the max award allowed in Nevada.

I do, however, believe zIPPY is a little more cozy with Slouch and Harmon that he cares to admit, given his comment in the Mammoth mini thread, which I let slide, but which merits mention now that this whole issue has come up and he said in his post above
“I never wanted to talk shit on here about Bro skis since Ron is a fellow Kwood crew member, but i might as well be honest. Slouch shares a shop with Moment.”
It would seem he wanted to get a little jab in when he made the following comment:

Thats soooo crazy, I saw a picture of that guys factory in Powder Magazine, where was that factory in that picture? Those skis look really original, like 125 at tip or something, are those powder skis? Anyways seem cool and i am glad to see that Bro company is keeping it innovative!!!

Did someone steal zIPPY’s login and post that? The story was about the issues we dealt with at the Focus factory in Quebec, but had a photo of me at the Slouch factory in Reno. Apparently, this upset zIPPY. I don’t know, but it seems he’d like to talk some shit about the Bros, maybe pick a fight, and stand up for Harmon. But why that and then him saying here his intentions are honorable? I won’t presume to understand his intentions, just pointing out that saying one thing and then demonstrating otherwise is just a little weird. I got no beef with anyone coming here to promote their product. But if zIPPY and Casey are one and the same as Slouch, whether they claim to be or not, then iceman’s comments, which he inferred from what I told him, are not as far out there as some of the KW crew seems to think.

If I have offended some of the KW guys due to their friendship with zIPPY, my apologies. But I felt compelled to say something, since iceman was accused of being off his rocker, which although that might be true most of the time, is not necessarily the case in this instance.

As for us being in competition with Moment or any other independent ski company – nothing could be further from the truth. Independent ski companies are only in competition with the top three or four big ski companies. If an indie feels they are in competition with other indies, it’s a sign of immaturity and insecurity. This is something I’ve talked about with a number of other indies as we progress toward starting an association of independent ski manufacturers of North Amercia . Together we stand, but with some of the foolish attitudes some companies seem to want to hang onto, feeling they have to rip off other indies or run them out of business, or even something so basic as not wanting to share sources on materials or processes, the indies only hurt themselves and each other. So with that, I’ll wish Moment the best of luck and we’ll see Ben Harmon in court if his appeal manages to fly.

edit: italics

[Twoplanker]

As for us being in competition with Moment or any other independent ski company – nothing could be further from the truth. Independent ski companies are only in competition with the top three or four big ski companies. If an indie feels they are in competition with other indies, it’s a sign of immaturity and insecurity. This is something I’ve talked about with a number of other indies as we progress toward starting an association of independent ski manufacturers of North Amercia . Together we stand, but with some of the foolish attitudes some companies seem to want to hang onto, feeling they have to rip off other indies or run them out of business, or even something so basic as not wanting to share sources on materials or processes, the indies only hurt themselves and each other. So with that, I’ll wish Moment the best of luck and we’ll see Ben Harmon in court if his appeal manages to fly.

Here here! Viva la Indies!!