career ramblings...

[hev]

So, I am five years into a web development gig, in a rising job market, for a growing employer that was just bought by Goldman Sachs. Sounds great, except the business is shooting themselves in the foot, hiring and growing without any real training program or ramp up plan for new employees. We have gone from 130 employees to 200 in less than a year, and lost some key people in the commotion. I have been there 5 years and I am still working sixty and seventy hour weeks to pull off heroics for their driving business needs. During the day I am training 4 new employees, having to hand out management responsibilities, sizing projects, making business decisions, forming development and release plans, and then in my free time I am actually coding a good portion of their products still. My COO excuse was that "people are bored easily and they need to wear many hats", and I don't know if I buy it. Well, I put my foot down a few weeks ago and told the COO I had had enough. I told my boss a year ago, my growth path wasn't sustainable and he didn't listen. I am working this insane job until Labor Day and then it's on to the team the COO is running. The "Client Solutions" team.

With a few weeks to go I am a starting to have a few question creep into my head. I am essentially joining the management team of the company, which is mostly young and inexperienced (I am young and only sorta experienced). I can't tell if I am walking directly into the fire, or instigating change at a growing company(most likely both). They have re-organized my department and handed out new titles as a result of my departure. Part of me is really excited to move onto something new and put down the text editor for a while but I can't tell if I am giving up good management opportunities and acquired skills in my old position. I am also having a hard time envisioning myself on this team of mostly hack job managers. I have spent 5 years developing the product their attempting to manage and I have more experience in the company than all but two people on this new team, one who will be my new boss. At the same time, I have no business education and a relatively short management record. All that is not what makes me nervous though. I am looking to make a change, and I am not sure it can happen in the same company.

In the end I am so personally invested right now I can't escape it which is the real scary thing. As a developer it's hard to look past mistakes you have made and bugs that are out there waiting to be fixed. The fact that our software can be updated at any time is a big monkey to cary around. The weird thing is I am going to have to dish out what I am taking right now, which is going to be really hard morally. I am making a promise to myself to give this management gig a try for at least a year. I figure it opens up my career skill set A LOT and I am curious to see where Goldman can take things in a year (and weather our executives are willing to listen). If the ship still feels like it's sinking I might need to jump off. The tough thing is the business model is really promising and there are profit sharing incentives. I am feeling totally overwhelmed and exicted at the same time; it's exhausting.

Anyways, I generally choose to not use this place as a journal, but have also gotten some great advice here from those older and wiser. I'd love to hear your comments on this and anecdotes about your own career path.

[sfotex]

While the new 'promotion' might look good on paper, just realize you're probably going to end up working more hours for your slavedriver COO. Also, when you go bought by Goldman Sachs your stock options probably went out the window, etc, which makes me wonder why you're still getting worked so hard, as the owner/VC's probably made there $$ on the sell and got out.

[mtnbikerskierchick]

I think you have set some excellent goals for yourself, and I think it will be good for you to take on a different position. As for working more like sfotex states, I don't think it would be possible for you to work more than you are now!!!! As for being able to do this work in the same company you currently work in, who knows... you'll only find out if you try! I think giving the new position a one-year test is a great idea. All I have to say is that it seems like the company is really willing to work with you to see your goals happen, and I think that kind of flexibility is a good thing.

Good luck to you, mang!

[sfotex]

As for working more like sfotex states, I don't think it would be possible for you to work more than you are now!!!!

I did 5 years of start up crap at 60-70 hours a week and I had managers that were there when I got in in the morning and were still working when I left. I guess I'd just be wary that if the COO doesn't care about your work load, it might get worse when you're directly under him. esp. when It comes to scheduling projects, etc., i.e. 'I need this report by tommorow morning' kinda crap. But, I'm kind of jaded about the start up crap, and firmly believe working 60-70 hour weeks forever is just a bad idea (unless you get paid by the hour...)

But, if you don't like it you can quit or probably go back to your old position. Are you getting a good raise out of this promotion?

Also, see if the company will work with you to take some business/managment classes. I'm starting to work on getting an MBA through my work.

[mrw]

I did 5 years of start up crap at 60-70 hours a week and I had managers that were there when I got in in the morning and were still working when I left. I guess I'd just be wary that if the COO doesn't care about your work load, it might get worse when you're directly under him. esp. when It comes to scheduling projects, etc., i.e. 'I need this report by tommorow morning' kinda crap. But, I'm kind of jaded about the start up crap, and firmly believe working 60-70 hour weeks forever is just a bad idea (unless you get paid by the hour...)

But, if you don't like it you can quit or probably go back to your old position. Are you getting a good raise out of this promotion?

Also, see if the company will work with you to take some business/managment classes. I'm starting to work on getting an MBA through my work.

Good advice there. I have always tried to set limits as to the amount of hours I will work and I am essentially self employed. Life moves at a startlingly fast pace.As I have gotten older, I refuse to put myself in a situation where I am trading the grains of sand in my hourglass for a few $$$ more. Play it out for the year you have decided on and if things there are not making you happy, hit the road.

[snowsprite]

The hardest part about a big change in life is standing there contemplating the jump. Once you're in the water...you get used to the temp pretty quickly.

Sometimes you may wish you hadn't jumped, but you can always climb back out. As long as you didn't dive headfirst into shallow water.

Sounds to me like you trying this for one year is a good plan. Now the tough thing is dealing w/ the "standing on the edge" part. Make sure you're getting enough sleep & exercise to deal w/ the jitters. And good luck, man.

Sprite

[truth]

Just don't lose your red stapler man.

[summit]

truth, ah beliv you have my stahbler

[4matic]

Manage tasks not people. I'm not great at it but it is the only way.

Take detailed notes at meetings. That's a good management skill..

A daily tech meeting to discuss release notes for that day and report problems. A way for Client Support to communicate with engineering and operations. Daily!

Require that the people on your team manage their hours so they don't have to work 60-70 hours. That is bad business.

[AbsolutStoli]

well, look at it this way, even if you dont like it, a managment position at goldman looks mighty fine on the resume. look towards where youre going not where you've been. does it really matter what sort of titles they handed out or what got shifted because of your move from the old dept.? not really.

and you never really know what people are capable of until you work with them. they might look green on paper, but they could be very capable people. i mean, speaking from personal experience, im the youngest one on my team, this was my first job out of college (basically)...ive been here for 4 years, but still an analyst (long story...i basically got lost in the shuffle)...anyway, managers and directors come to me for guidance. but you wouldnt really get a sense of that from seeing my title or looking at my age.

i had a friend do IT and development at goldman...he made some serious loot...so thats a silver lining as well.

good luck.

[hev]

Thanks guys. I definately apreciate all the support and suggestions. A few comments on my situation in particular.

I know I need a break and I am in huge danger of burning out. I am taking a 4 day weekend over LD and spending some time with my folks in CT. Really looking forward to that.

The options deal is the real thing. I got a pretty decent check when Goldman bought us, and a stipulation of the deal was that the executives had to re-invest in the new business without cashing out thier options. (Obviously goldman has done this before). Part of the reason we are hurting right now is that people high up the ladder who weren't "executive" split with thier peice of the pie.

I am not getting a considerable riase out of this but am pretty saitisfied with my salary and I am hopefully moving to a team with more advancement oppurtunities. It'll be interseting to read this thead a year from now

[Pinner]

I'm not the best source of career advice, but I do believe that being proud and happy is more important than being rich and busy.

[DBdude]

If you are young and can still hack it maybe the options are worth it. I'm an old fart database developer and a 60 hour week is out of the question. My family is too important.

[upallnight]

MSBC: It's entirely possible to work more than 60-70 hour weeks, unfortunately. Companies get good at hriing "Type A" people who are not satisfied with going home at midnight 99% done -- they hire the type of people (like hev) who will stay until 4 am to get it 100% done.

(I used to work 80, 90+ hour weeks at one point, and a friend used to work even more, staying through the night on a regular basis.)

Maybe at least try out the job w/ the COO. You are always free to leave.

I wouldn't count on seeing any $$ from your options. Make your decision based on the actual cash you're seeing -- not the potential. All too often those promises don't materialize.

Do it for current compensation and the reward/satisfaction of seeing your product 'make it'...not for any other reason.

Good luck with your decision.