Anti-Stoke

[smitchell333]

The easy access is likely to increase the tendency to go for it when if you had to hike for it you may be less likely to jump in.

I find it helpful for decision making to think about backcountry descents in terms of several important factors and apply a Green-yellow-Red in to each factor:

1) Group - experience, egos, size of group/# rescuers etc
2) Snowpack - stability and quality
3) Terrain - exposure, terrain traps, coverage, etc.
4) Other (weather, rescue difficulty, time of day, etc)

When you rate each factor and look at the picture overall I find it often helps clarify the real relative level of risk. One or even two reds/yellows doesnt mean no-go, it just means you better be aware of the increased risk.

For example in the situation in question LL I'd rate the situation as follows (of course I wasnt there so its only my guess)

1) Group - yellow/red - MBSC didnt know these people and therefore didnt know their experience level. Were they going to ski above her and kick a slide? Did they know how to rescue? Were they competent skiers on this typ of slope? Was their decision making good?

2) Snowpack - Red - 3 feet of new snow - unless it was exceptionally stable I'd call it higher on the danger scale simply b/c of the volume of new snow. Most avalanches happen in the first 24-48 hours after snowfall.

3) Terrain - Red - deathfall likely here - either from fall or avalanche. Right at the ski area, but high on the exposure factor.

4) Other - Green - dont see any other factors.

Three reds - that probably means no-go for me, but then again its everyone's own decision based on comfort with risk.

[iskibc]

You can still order 80-86 from the CO Geological Survey
http://dnr.state.co.us/geostore/Prod...roductid=SP-39
the older versions are available from the usual online used book sellers, at increasingly exorbitant prices (www.bookfinder.com is my favorite engine for those)

Thanks for the link! Just ordered a copy. Looking forward to the updated version too.

I've gotten the chance to finger through this book and I must say that there is a wealth of helpful information in there. I think you can learn more from this publication than most 'basic' avalanche books. Really good resource.

Smitchell333,

I like your method. Similar to the bulls eye method, but pretty much covers everything.

Good discussion everyone. This is what a forum is about.

[goldenboy]

I highly reccomend The Snowy Torrents, probably the best resource I own for avies. Because I tend to learn better by example, I learned a lot more from it than I did from Snow Sense. I usually reread it in the fall, just to remind myself of the mistakes that can be made. The internet is full of accident reports as well, and the last 10 years or so of avalanche accidents are all detailed on the CAIC website, in the same style as Snowy Torrents.

[nesta]

Thanks for all the input, especially Hacksaw. Another text of case studies worth mentioning is Avalanche Accidents in Canada Vol.4, available through the CAA, www.avalanche.ca. There are previous volumes out there, but this one should suffice, and with any luck Vol.5 will appear in the not too distant future.

[taz]

"The one thing that worries me a lot, is that I see/hear people putting too much faith in their equipment (transceiver, shovel , prob, Avalung, Avalanche Airbag, etc...) when it comes to avalanches. The fact is, you should buy this equipment, but you should think of it as a insurence policy. A policy you hope to never really use......"

Thats one thing mum drilled into us was, say you arrive at a slope and you are having thoughts about it, ask "if I didn't have a beacon, would I cross it?" that and "the slope that never slides, can and will when conditions are right, that will be the slope that will kill you" that second one was a bed time story in my house i remember being shit scared of the hill the school was on for a while due to that one, but then I was like 9 at the time, scared the shit out of me! I still can't ride a bike to this day (i'm 25) without shoes that cover my toes thanks to mum's horror stories from A&E of kids getting toes ripped off on random parts of their norco. Thanks mum. Horror instilled from an early age, if I had to live thru that, so are my kids "i think tonight a story from avalanche accidents in Canada Vol 4 no, we are not reading winnie the pooh".

When I came to Fernie in Dec last year, before the lifts open I couldn't get over how many people which where hiking with no pack, heading to easter bowl or boom. In the happy house of hippies we have a rule if you can't find a beacon in training in under 5 minutes, your kitchen bitch and we'll be home at this time and you better have a hot meal on the table ready for us! last winter a friend wanted me to go on a tour out to lost boys, he had just got a beacon (2 days old) no training, no experience in BC and got up set when he was told "like fucking hell, I am". Some time I think you can't be scared of hurting feelings, you not 100% happy with how someone reads the slope, say something. If they can't wait for the slowest, make them pull their head in and wait. I'm a bit blunt but yeah it's better to stand up and say something then living with what if's. They'll get over it one day, if not, too bad.