Why do you need a stiff boot for riding?

[hoarhey]

Any current (2008) thoughts on stiff boots?

Last night, I bought a pair of Nordica SpeedMachine 14s* to replace my old Nordica Grand Prix. The Grand Prix fit well and I never had any problems with them except for some shin bang (particularly after days where I'd ski fast through crud). The SpeedMachines fit like the Grand Prix and seem to about as stiff. The fit is very good. My only concern is the boots' stiffness.

Would I be better off with softer boots, say, the SpeedMachine 12s? I'm 6'1", 185 lbs., 31 years old, usually ski Prophet 100s or Praxis (though I may get something along the lines of the XXLs next year), like to ski fairly fast and huck a little, make occassional laps the park, don't race, hope to get into the backcountry 6-8x a year, and don't really care about groomer performance. I'm pretty sure that the SpeedMachine 14s will be at least a decent boot, as they fit and flex like my old Grand Prix. But I haven't owned a softer boot since I was in high school (Flexons -> TNTs -> Grand Prix -> Now) and am wondering if I might avoid my shin bang problems with a softer boot.

*REI is selling them for $500 right now, which is about $200 cheaper than a lot of places. I assume that I can return my SpeedMachines for cash or a different boot, if necessary.

Frank, you may remember my experience from the camp. Stiff boots with soft skis after a long time on stiffer skis.

I ended up buying two pairs of boots to experiment for myself.

Good luck, AKBruin.

Those Garmont Adrenalines sound incredible.
That really threw me.

[oftpiste]

I love the fit and precision I get with my well fitted and softened (v-notched) plugs with intuition plug liners. The cuff is very well fitted to my scrawny calfs, but if I ski in them 2 days in a row I too get fairly uncomfortable shin-bang. I Goodwilled a pretty nice pair of decent fitting Flexon comps that I take along if I know I'm going to be skiing a number of consecutive days and they allow the shins to heal a bit, but I definitely don't get the precision with them and prefer the control I get with the plugs.

Shin bang, as others have said too, for me comes from skiing bumps, whoopdedoos on traverses or even mildly bumpy groomers. In powder and very smooth groomers they're dandy. It would be nice to get rid of the shin-bang though and be able to ski them days in a row without discomfort.

[skiwa]

skiing a soft boot is a huge compromise for most of the mags, because of the way ppl around here ski (or at least claim to). you lose not only power transfer but the tactile connection with your boards because of more play in a soft boot. a stiff boot is better in crud and softish bumps too IMO b/c you can drive through them more effectively and avoid gettin pinballed around. i see soft boot applications in the bc as practical but even then only if its a decent length tour...

[powXer]

^^^ I had the speedmachines last year and they destroyed me. totally wrong last for my foot. stiffness was good...great, actually...but totally wrong fit. got them replaced with the Top Fuels from last year and am much happier.

as for stiffness (heh)...I agree with all the comments thus far...if it's a deep day and I'm just floatin, the first notch on the top buckles is all I need with the Nords.

I do switch between Adrenalines and the Top Fuels...but absolutely prefer to Top Fuels in-bounds, any conditions. it's a noticeable difference I think.

my .2

[flip]

I've always skied stiff boots (Salomon Course) because I have very inflexible achilles. However, I just switched to Krptyon Pros which aren't soft but are much softer, and it has made my Nordica Blowers FAR more skiable.

With the stiff boot, I found them really twitchy. Slightest shin pressure and they'd hook instead of progressively tightening the turn. So arcing through crud was a nightmare because every bump would cause shin pressure and send the ski wherever it felt like. With a softer boot they are really easy, much more predictable. I actually enjoy them now.

We'll see how handle explosivs and i.M103s... I suspect poorly as I want to be able to drive through bumps rather than absorb them, and both require a lot of pressure to make short radius turns.

Short version: match the boot stiffness to the ski.

[oftpiste]

Short version: match the boot stiffness to the ski.

I wouldn't make any sense to own that many pairs of boots.

[Atlas Q. Powmonger]

I was pondering the same thing this year. I replaced some Technica Diablos with Nordicas because the Nordicas fit my wierd feet better. I was torn between the stiffer and softer versions of the same boot and went for the stiffer because the bootfitter (Corty Lawrence at Footloose in Mammoth) told me it's easier to make them softer later if you want. (The nordicas have little tabs in the back that you can cut, making them flex more.)

Also, now that I got my intuitions from the group buy, I'm definitely going to soften them up. They feel way more responsive now and I don't think the stiffness is as necessary even with big skis.

Somebody said it's about finding the right balance. I think that's the key - whatever works for you. Too soft/sloppy is bad for performance obviously, but so is too stiff and unforgiving too when you're pounding through crud.

[AKbruin]

Frank, you may remember my experience from the camp. Stiff boots with soft skis after a long time on stiffer skis.

I ended up buying two pairs of boots to experiment for myself.

Good luck, AKBruin.

Those Garmont Adrenalines sound incredible.
That really threw me.

Yeah man, I thought of you when I bought them. The thing is that I don't think my new boots are very different from my old boots, so the worst case scenario is a continuation of the status quo, which ain't bad.

Did I read somewhere that you're heading to Gordy's Whistler camp? Lucky bastard.

[AKbruin]

I wouldn't make any sense to own that many pairs of boots.

I'm gonna start a thread with photos of my gnarly boot quiver. It's gonna be sick!

Atlas- Yeah, I'm leaning towards keeping them with the thought that they fit well and I could probably soften them up in the future.

[flip]

I wouldn't make any sense to own that many pairs of boots.

Well within reason, obviously. Just saying that telling everyone they should ski a super stiff plug makes no sense if they ski coombas and pocket rockets, and similarly claiming a soft boot is the shit makes no sense for someone on i.M103s.

Considering lots of folks on this board have a softer touring boot and stiffer resort boot, it's not that hard to ski your soft boot with your soft skis and stiff boot with stiff ones.

[Wetdog]

I am hoping to get my greasy mitts on some of the new Garmont Adrenalines this week. They could be interesting - the guy I spoke to (a former Salomon WC boot tech) thought they were as stiff as top-of-the line Sallys. Could be interesting having an AT boot that is stiffer than most alpine ones...

I have Adenalines as my touring boot. I found them a bit soft skiing the lifts, but I think I was also a shell size too big, I seem to be in between shells sizes with Garmont. My Endorphins are the next size down and they had to be punched in the toes slightly. Being a size smaller, I was able to get a more performance fit. That boot is stiff enough to ski frontside like an alpine boot. It is probably about a 110 flex. This is the way I have fit my alpine boots as well. Get a shell size that is snug and punch the shell where there are any pressure points. A good fit is as important as the right flex. As for the Adrenalines, I was going to sell them, but a friend had the same problem and put oversize Intuition liners in them, heat fit them and not only solved the size problem, but stiffened them up a bit. I'm not a hug fan of Garmont liners anyway. I may try this as it worked for me with my last Alpine boots once the liners packed out and I managed to get several more years of life out of them. The Adrenalines are certainly more comfortable being a bit roomier and less stiff for long tours, and a bit lighter than the Endorphines, but I like the way the Endorphines ski better.

[oftpiste]

Well within reason, obviously. Just saying that telling everyone they should ski a super stiff plug makes no sense if they ski coombas and pocket rockets, and similarly claiming a soft boot is the shit makes no sense for someone on i.M103s.

Considering lots of folks on this board have a softer touring boot and stiffer resort boot, it's not that hard to ski your soft boot with your soft skis and stiff boot with stiff ones.

Um, that was kind of a jokingly rhetorical remark. I have a lot of skis. To match all my skis with boots would require too many boots. Humor. Poor attempt though I think AKbruin got it.

Also can't find where I told everyone they should ski a plug for everything. Matter of fact I said I had another, softer pair too. Merely related my own experience and the positives and negatives thereof. I would never presume - especially in this forum - to tell anyone what they should do!

[AKbruin]

Epilogue: I tried the Speedmachine 14s last weekend. They were comfortable and sooo much easier to get in and out of, but a little too stiff for my purposes. So I took them back for a full refund at REI, whose liberal return policy has made me a loyal customer.

I just ordered the 12s from Backcountry.com.

[hoarhey]

Look forward to hearing how they ski for you...
I'll let you know how my 110's ski at Whistler (insert finger-moustache here)
I suck at the internetz.

[Magnoe]

I ski the Garmont Adrenalin and I'm thinking it is actually a perfect boot for the new reverse/reverse skis. I just got some Praxis. After reading the McConkeys guide to the Spat and trying it out, I think the softer/more upright boots might be perfect for reverse/reverse skis. You are supposed to be centered and not necessarily drive the ski.

Of course that still leaves my Adrenalins perhaps less-than-perfect on non-fresh resort days but such is life.

[zo]

Some people may take exception to this but, shin bang really has nothing to do with the flex of a boot. You get shin bang from leaning back when you ski, or landing in the backseat. It makes no difference if your boot flex rating is 60 or 150 when shin bang is your issue. A stiffer boot does a better job of transfering energy to the tips of skis efficiently. That's how you used to get skis with minimal sidecut arced and carving. That's why very stiff boots are less important now, because with these big sidecuts, weighting tips is less important. You need a lateraly stiff boot so you can simply tip the ski on edge and carve. Most people who still prefer stiff flexes (120+) probably like to ski over the tips of their skis rather than centered, or have bad bone spurs on their heels and get they punished when they flex through softer boots.