bush recognizes distinguished service (nsr)

[Cono Este]

Care to explain what you would define as torture?

This thread...

[KQ]

There ya go - a new career field for you!

LOL!!! It's like a friend of mine who thinks getting wounded in war is no big deal. He thinks it's like when his kids get a boo boo and he puts a Spiderman band-aid on it to make it all better. Really. He said to me "so they get shot - they get to go to the hospital and rest up, see pretty nurses, get good food and then they are better."

[MassLiberal]

LOL!!! It's like a friend of mine who thinks getting wounded in war is no big deal. He thinks it's like when his kids get a boo boo and he puts a Spiderman band-aid on it to make it all better. Really. He said to me "so they get shot - they get to go to the hospital and rest up, see pretty nurses, get good food and then they are better."

There is an easy way to solve his way of thinking. Shoot him in the leg, and see how he reacts.

[PNWbrit]

There is an easy way to solve his way of thinking. Shoot him in the leg, and see how he reacts.

Same principle could be applied to MrGyptian and his torture-lite theory.

"Are we hurting you or threatening to hurt you enough yet for it to actually count?"

[P_McPoser]

There is an easy way to solve his way of thinking. Shoot him in the leg, and see how he reacts.

I like that kind of education.

[CUBUCK]

Miller IS a hero in the army of Dubya, Cheney and Donald "Heckuva Job" Rumsfeld.

I think you have your peeps confused........

[mr_gyptian]

Are you sure about that? My understanding is that TF 145 did it the old fashioned way -- raiding a shit ton of suspected safe houses and following the trail to al-Khalayleh (AKA Zarqawi).

Those of minds weak enough to succumb to torture are also weak enough to succumb to be plied with humane treatment while locked up.

I thought it was TF 121. regardless. From what I've read about different interrogators recounting different experiences is that the intel is more genuine and more easily vetted when the prisoner has not been exposed to the more aggressive interrogation tactics. Additionally, the rougher tactics were more taxing on the interrogators.

regarding what I define as torture I guess acts like Kaning, electrocution, starvation, pretty much every picture I saw when touring Dachau's (which was not the level of hell that camps like Bergen-Belsen, Sobibor(sic), and most notably Auschwitz were) torture tactics employed by Nazi's. What I do not define as torture is acts of humiliation, sleep deprivation, line ups, physical labor, etc.

[RootSkier]

What I do not define as torture is acts of humiliation, sleep deprivation,

So is making people do naked human pyramids while covered in shit and shoving batons up their asses an act of humiliation, or is it torture?

[cj001f]

So is making people do naked human pyramids while covered in shit and shoving batons up their asses an act of humiliation, or is it torture?

Sounds like standard homoerotic frat house hazing if you ask me.

[Spats]

No I got the point. Do I have a problem with a prison warden getting a DSM? Yeah. Do I have a problem with the "harsh" treatment of these prisoners? No.

Only a morally bankrupt wackjob could equate Abu Ghraib to fraternity hazing. You, sir, are a morally bankrupt wackjob.

[PNWbrit]

Additionally, the rougher tactics were more taxing on the interrogators.

Really? You mean being a torturer isn't all giggles, back slapping and cattle probes?

[MassLiberal]

Really? You mean being a torturer isn't all giggles, back slapping and cattle probes?

No, it takes a some photography skills as well.

[MarsB]

..what I define as torture I guess acts like Kaning...

Those sick bastards....

[mr_gyptian]

Only a morally bankrupt wackjob could equate Abu Ghraib to fraternity hazing. You, sir, are a morally bankrupt wackjob.

Is that as bad as or worse than comparing abu ghraib to nazi concentration camps, gulags, and places like the Hanoi Hilton? I mean, as long as we're casting aspersions...

or is it only moral equivalence if you are minimizing abu ghraib? which I don't think anyone is doing, to my knowledge all the people directly involved are in jail right now.

[RootSkier]

Is that as bad as or worse than comparing abu ghraib to nazi concentration camps, gulags, and places like the Hanoi Hilton?

Concentration camps might be a little over the top...but the Hanoi Hilton? Isn't it pretty much the same....except that the US pilots and others that ended up as prisoners in N. Vietnam WERE actually making war...unlike many of the people at Gitmo?

[Cono Este]

Concentration camps might be a little over the top...but the Hanoi Hilton? Isn't it pretty much the same....except that the US pilots and others that ended up as prisoners in N. Vietnam WERE actually making war...unlike many of the people at Gitmo?

Keep posting you might get a medal.

[mr_gyptian]

Concentration camps might be a little over the top...but the Hanoi Hilton? Isn't it pretty much the same....except that the US pilots and others that ended up as prisoners in N. Vietnam WERE actually making war...unlike many of the people at Gitmo?

you're kidding right? Ask John McCain to comb his hair for you and let me know if they're the same. There are U.S. prisons, for U.S. citizens that treat prisoners worse than the gitmo detainees. For fuck's sake, "culturally sensitive food!!!" christ they even point them to Mecca for prayer. sounds rough.

[belgian]

I quess your basing this on your time in theater and first hand experience with the guys who have there boots on the the ground. I by no means think we should still be or have ever gone into Iraq. But what your saying is fucked up. Even using the term nazi for someone who is in or supports the military is total bullshit.
In my two tours over there spending four hours a day covering ground troops I never once witnessed anything even remotely out of line by ground soldiers. Just because maybe a hundred or so assholes have done some fucked up shit( I agree on that point, they should be taken out and shot) don't lay it the hundreds of thousands who have gone and done there job to the best of there ability. Coming from a guy who has served my country for amost twenty years I'm extremely insulted. I vowed never to get sucked into a political post on this thread but I could'nt stand by for that BS.

I actually have an uncle who took a tour of duty in Iraq first hand. He left being the biggest pro-war, pro-bush conservative I've ever had the misfortune to encounter. He came back a year later with stories that made even MY head spin; of the way things are run, the camps, the situation on the ground, the relationship with civilians, the blind retaliation attacks, the list goes on.

And after that tour of duty he couldn't be any further from what he was before. So don't tell me that I have no experience in the matter. My father grew up in the Mid West and was about as ignorant to the world as many here appear to be. He joined the Air Force during the Cold War and saw several years of action and the bullshit that happens in the military. He too is completely changed, and after hearing several other stories from several other family members I have formed my opinions.

And I wasn't referring to all involved, I have respect for most military service men, however not this time.

[Cono Este]

My father grew up in the Mid West and was about as ignorant to the world as many here appear to be.

I have respect for most military service men, however not this time.

We have a winner!!

[cj001f]

you're kidding right? Ask John McCain to comb his hair for you and let me know if they're the same.

Why don't you have McCain talk to the prisoners dead from torture at Abu Gharaib

[rotorhead]

You just keep pulling that trigger over there, over here we'll keep working on getting you guys home sooner, mmkay?

You are an asshole that has no idea what the fuck your talking about. I spent my second tour getting shot at. Most of the time I was defending Kurds from sunni reprisals. There are Apaches in theater right now have almost no engagements over a one year period . When they do fire it's only when they record themselves being fired upon first. I was there when the prison scandal happened. We where hurt and embarresed for our military and our country when we heard about it.
Not many soldiers want to be there or agree with the war at this point. We go because if we refuse one of our friends will be out there doing our job and risking his or her life even more because of someones making a statement. We go because we signed up and volunteered to serve or country. 99.9 % of the guys there just focus on trying to keep themselves and there buddies alive for a year to get home, see loved ones, ski or whatever else gets them through.
So sorry if I'm a little upset when you lump the whole military in with those assholes from Abu Graib or think I took pulling the trigger lighty. I've got friends who've died there and more friends prepping for thier third tour. You don't know anyone who wants this over more than me and the guys I serve with.

Just what is it exactly that your doing to help get us home sooner?