bush recognizes distinguished service (nsr)

[natty dread]

NYT:

Dishonorable Service

What happens to a general who turns a military detention camp into a center for the torment of prisoners, and then keeps exporting those vile practices to other U.S. prisons until their exposure sickens the world? If the general works under President Bush, he is whitewashed of any blame, protected from even the mildest reprimand, and, finally, retires honorably with the military’s highest noncombat medal pinned to his chest.

By now, we shouldn’t be all that surprised at the treatment of Maj. Gen. Geoffrey D. Miller, the Guantánamo Bay commandant who helped organize interrogation centers in Afghanistan and at Abu Ghraib.

After all, Mr. Bush has promoted the civilians who formulated the policies behind illegal detention and prisoner abuse. And he awarded the highest civilian honor to George Tenet, who either bungled the intelligence on Iraq or helped the White House hype it, and Paul Bremer, whose post-invasion mismanagement helped foment the bloody chaos in Iraq.

But there was something especially appalling about the ceremony on Monday in which General Miller got the Distinguished Service Medal in — of all places — the Pentagon’s Hall of Heroes. The medal is for “exceptionally meritorious service to the government” beyond the performance of duty.

We hope the Pentagon had something in mind beyond putting prisoners into painful positions for hours or threatening them with German shepherds. Surely they were not thinking of naked men in pyramids or posed with electric wires on their genitals.

This sorry tale dishonors the real heroes. If the Pentagon wanted to honor them, it could have chosen the military lawyers who tried to stop the Bush administration from scrapping the Geneva Conventions and trying to put places like Guantánamo Bay beyond the rule of law. Or it could just look to the front line in Iraq, where heroes put their lives on the line every day — and all too often lose them.

[belgian]

Not to insult anyone but with the revelations of these tortures and the new, kind of swept-under-the-carpet revelations of mass murder of civilians in Iraq I believe that the term "hero" is being thrown around FAR too loosely. They're soldiers, most of them have good -if mislead- intentions but there are too many throughout the chain of command who simply are not worthy of my, or anyone elses respect. Hell, a few of these sad shits should've been taken out back and shot a long time ago.

I've had about enough of all this "politically correct" BS being tossed around today. Can we please start calling it like it is without having FOX News and their "support our troops" car-magnet-ribbon nazi patrol hanging on my every word?

[Rasputin]

.....not worthy of my, or anyone elses respect. Hell, a few of these sad shits should've been taken out back and shot a long time ago.

Hmmmm.......worthy of respect?

[mr_gyptian]

NYT:

Dishonorable Service

What happens to a general who turns a military detention camp into a center for the torment of prisoners, and then keeps exporting those vile practices to other U.S. prisons until their exposure sickens the world? If the general works under President Bush, he is whitewashed of any blame, protected from even the mildest reprimand, and, finally, retires honorably with the military’s highest noncombat medal pinned to his chest.

By now, we shouldn’t be all that surprised at the treatment of Maj. Gen. Geoffrey D. Miller, the Guantánamo Bay commandant who helped organize interrogation centers in Afghanistan and at Abu Ghraib.

After all, Mr. Bush has promoted the civilians who formulated the policies behind illegal detention and prisoner abuse. And he awarded the highest civilian honor to George Tenet, who either bungled the intelligence on Iraq or helped the White House hype it, and Paul Bremer, whose post-invasion mismanagement helped foment the bloody chaos in Iraq.

But there was something especially appalling about the ceremony on Monday in which General Miller got the Distinguished Service Medal in — of all places — the Pentagon’s Hall of Heroes. The medal is for “exceptionally meritorious service to the government” beyond the performance of duty.

We hope the Pentagon had something in mind beyond putting prisoners into painful positions for hours or threatening them with German shepherds. Surely they were not thinking of naked men in pyramids or posed with electric wires on their genitals.

This sorry tale dishonors the real heroes. If the Pentagon wanted to honor them, it could have chosen the military lawyers who tried to stop the Bush administration from scrapping the Geneva Conventions and trying to put places like Guantánamo Bay beyond the rule of law. Or it could just look to the front line in Iraq, where heroes put their lives on the line every day — and all too often lose them.

Boy, I really wish there was some lawyer that could somehow find a way to prosecute my fraternity hellmaster. He violated the Geneva conventions to the letter. Maybe he could stand trial in front of the ICC at the Hague.

Come to think of it, I think some of the seniors on my high school soccer team might have violated Article blah, blah, blah of the Geneva Convention.

Oh and my neighbors dog that not only barked at me constantly on my paper route actually bit me one day. Maybe he could be classified as a dog handler and prosecuted under the Geneva Conventions.

[MassLiberal]

Boy, I really wish there was some lawyer that could somehow find a way to prosecute my fraternity hellmaster. He violated the Geneva conventions to the letter. Maybe he could stand trial in front of the ICC at the Hague.

Come to think of it, I think some of the seniors on my high school soccer team might have violated Article blah, blah, blah of the Geneva Convention.

Oh and my neighbors dog that not only barked at me constantly on my paper route actually bit me one day. Maybe he could be classified as a dog handler and prosecuted under the Geneva Conventions.

You went to highschool in Sarajevo? That explains a lot.

[shmerham]

Boy, I really wish there was some lawyer that could somehow find a way to prosecute my fraternity hellmaster. He violated the Geneva conventions to the letter. Maybe he could stand trial in front of the ICC at the Hague.

Come to think of it, I think some of the seniors on my high school soccer team might have violated Article blah, blah, blah of the Geneva Convention.

Oh and my neighbors dog that not only barked at me constantly on my paper route actually bit me one day. Maybe he could be classified as a dog handler and prosecuted under the Geneva Conventions.

Way to miss the point.

[The Reverend Floater]

Boy, I really wish there was some lawyer that could somehow find a way to prosecute my fraternity hellmaster. He violated the Geneva conventions to the letter. Maybe he could stand trial in front of the ICC at the Hague.

Come to think of it, I think some of the seniors on my high school soccer team might have violated Article blah, blah, blah of the Geneva Convention.

Oh and my neighbors dog that not only barked at me constantly on my paper route actually bit me one day. Maybe he could be classified as a dog handler and prosecuted under the Geneva Conventions.

Wow. This is a pretty weak arguement for you, G. Losing your edge?

[BLOOD SWEAT STEEL]

Cliff notes:

Natty Dread posts another thread about his dislike for the president (as if we weren't already aware) and uses our nation's Soldiers as the punchline.

Clever and tasteful.

[cj001f]

Cliff notes:

Natty Dread posts another thread about his dislike for the president (as if we weren't already aware) and uses our nation's Soldiers as the punchline.

Clever and tasteful.

Pride hurting?

[The Reverend Floater]

Cliff notes:

Natty Dread posts another thread about his dislike for the president (as if we weren't already aware) and uses our nation's Soldiers as the punchline.

Clever and tasteful.

If that's what you got from it, you're a bigger idiot than we thought. Read it again and give me 200 words on why the NYT is actually pretty correct in this case.

[BLOOD SWEAT STEEL]

Disregard. I'm getting worked up again. I need some coffee.

[PNWbrit]

"If the Party could thrust its hand into the past and say this or that even, it never happened—that, surely, was more terrifying than mere torture and death."

"And if all others accepted the lie which the Party imposed—if all records told the same tale—then the lie passed into history and became truth. 'Who controls the past' ran the Party slogan, 'controls the future: who controls the present controls the past.'"

"Day by day and almost minute by minute the past was brought up to date. In this way every prediction made by the Party could be shown by documentary evidence to have been correct; nor was any item of news, or any expression of opinion, which conflicted with the needs of the moment, ever allowed to remain on record. All history was a palimpsest, scraped clean and reinscribed exactly as often as was necessary."

1984 - George Orwell

[Cono Este]

Disregard. I'm getting worked up again. I need some coffee.

I reccomend decaf for today.

[Clack]

You read the Times, huh? You read of The New Republic? Well I was reading reading that, and it's interesting becuase what it says is you don't know what the fuck you're talking about. -Ari

[rotorhead]

Not to insult anyone but with the revelations of these tortures and the new, kind of swept-under-the-carpet revelations of mass murder of civilians in Iraq I believe that the term "hero" is being thrown around FAR too loosely. They're soldiers, most of them have good -if mislead- intentions but there are too many throughout the chain of command who simply are not worthy of my, or anyone elses respect. Hell, a few of these sad shits should've been taken out back and shot a long time ago.

I've had about enough of all this "politically correct" BS being tossed around today. Can we please start calling it like it is without having FOX News and their "support our troops" car-magnet-ribbon nazi patrol hanging on my every word?

I quess your basing this on your time in theater and first hand experience with the guys who have there boots on the the ground. I by no means think we should still be or have ever gone into Iraq. But what your saying is fucked up. Even using the term nazi for someone who is in or supports the military is total bullshit.
In my two tours over there spending four hours a day covering ground troops I never once witnessed anything even remotely out of line by ground soldiers. Just because maybe a hundred or so assholes have done some fucked up shit( I agree on that point, they should be taken out and shot) don't lay it the hundreds of thousands who have gone and done there job to the best of there ability. Coming from a guy who has served my country for amost twenty years I'm extremely insulted. I vowed never to get sucked into a political post on this thread but I could'nt stand by for that BS.

[Monique]

Miller IS a hero in the army of Dubya, Cheney and Donald "Heckuva Job" Rumsfeld. Unfortunately this twisted little military force has the keys to the Pentagon in its grubby hands and can hold honorary ceremonies there. I'm surprised lighting hasn't hit the whole bunch of them by now.

I don't know if the program still exists but for a while several states posted road signs with number to call if you saw HOV lane violators. The prefix was different for each location but ended in the word HERO, e.g. 206.764.HERO. I remember wishing I was the kind of heroic person who could summon the nerve to take time out of my busy commute, steering with my knee and risking spilling hot coffee on my lap while I dialed the cell phone to report an HOV lane scofflaw. (Never mind about stopping drunk drivers, diving between two road ragers or even rushing into a burning building to save the baby.)

Anyway, at the time I thought that particular use of the word "hero" was as far-fetched as it could go. But that was before the George W. Bush administration.

[DaveTV]

While we're "on topic", even the cheerleaders now hint that Civil War in Iraq is inevitable

[MassLiberal]

While we're "on topic", even the cheerleaders now hint that Civil War in Iraq is inevitable

But that's a good thing, because building democracy is a difficult process, war is just the 'birthing pangs' of democratic reform, according to Condi at least.

[Long Duck Dong]

All of what you guys are bitching about is completely irrelevant, as the Mission is clearly Accomplished. Theres really nothing to worry about at this point.

[13]

I quess your basing this on your time in theater and first hand experience with the guys who have there boots on the the ground. I by no means think we should still be or have ever gone into Iraq. But what your saying is fucked up. Even using the term nazi for someone who is in or supports the military is total bullshit.
In my two tours over there spending four hours a day covering ground troops I never once witnessed anything even remotely out of line by ground soldiers. Just because maybe a hundred or so assholes have done some fucked up shit( I agree on that point, they should be taken out and shot) don't lay it the hundreds of thousands who have gone and done there job to the best of there ability. Coming from a guy who has served my country for amost twenty years I'm extremely insulted. I vowed never to get sucked into a political post on this thread but I could'nt stand by for that BS.

You just keep pulling that trigger over there, over here we'll keep working on getting you guys home sooner, mmkay?

[mr_gyptian]

Way to miss the point.

No I got the point. Do I have a problem with a prison warden getting a DSM? Yeah. Do I have a problem with the "harsh" treatment of these prisoners? No. It was in places like this that the inteligence was garnered to take out people like Zarqawi.

My problem with the torture(I would debate whether or not what these guys have experienced is actually torture) is that it really is not the best way to get accurate intel from the majority of detainees. However, some of these prisoners will respond to it, thus giving certain interrogators the ability to apply the techniques. Obviously it should be extremely closely watched and monitored.

[13]

No I got the point. Do I have a problem with a prison warden getting a DSM? Yeah. Do I have a problem with the "harsh" treatment of these prisoners? No. It was in places like this that the inteligence was garnered to take out people like Zarqawi.

Are you sure about that? My understanding is that TF 145 did it the old fashioned way -- raiding a shit ton of suspected safe houses and following the trail to al-Khalayleh (AKA Zarqawi).

Those of minds weak enough to succumb to torture are also weak enough to succumb to be plied with humane treatment while locked up.

[KQ]

The medal is for “exceptionally meritorious service to the government” beyond the performance of duty.

Obviously the medal was for doing as he was told, when he told, without question, regardless of moral or legal right or wrong. It's what every dictator creams for.

[PNWbrit]

I would debate whether or not what these guys have experienced is actually torture.

Care to explain what you would define as torture?

[DaveTV]

My problem with the torture(I would debate whether or not what these guys have experienced is actually torture) is that it really is not the best way to get accurate intel from the majority of detainees. However, some of these prisoners will respond to it, thus giving certain interrogators the ability to apply the techniques. Obviously it should be extremely closely watched and monitored.

There ya go - a new career field for you!