Very Stiff 188 Bro as BC set-up???

[benDover]

I'll let my true jongness sign threeeeeeeeeeeeewwwwwwwww
that's why I like you

Really though, this is going to be my first AT setup and I don't want to waste my money or time.

Now, for the real question......
Will a pair of Garmont Adrenalines or this years stiffer version coupled with freerides be able to get a pair of "Very Stiff" 188 Bros to rip or should I just throw a alpine binding on em' and rock them resort all year.

Don't crucify me, I just want to do the right thing with my bros!

*Note-I've got a pair of V-Pros laying around that are nice and soft that might be a good option for BC.

[Squatch]

i believe there were some tip dive issues on older supa-stiffs, but i believe the camber reduction on the new ones are going to fix that.

is that a good idea? hard to say. Depends a lot on what you plan to do with them. If you go BC for super-radcore lines, then maybe. although if you're going that rad, maybe you want an alpine set-up for durability. I suppose if you were a very good skier, you could drive supers with AT gear, but it kind of seems like "what's the point?" Stiffs are probably plenty stiff (a la the exploder) and would probably be easier to ski in bottomless pow, if that's one of your BC goals.

[upallnight]

very stiffs = probably overkill in the BC.

then again, what do you define as BC?

how much do you weigh? what's your skiing background? where do you ski? how much do you ski? what other skis do you like? what other skis have you taken on any BC trip?

[Vets]

I have used last year's Garmont Adrenalins on my last year's 188 regular stiff Bros. They work, but I prefer using a stiffer boot (Dalbello Kryptons) with a stiffer ski. (I usually use my Adrenalins with this year's 188 soft Bros)

I have skied for a few days on the very stiff Pro/Bro Bro/Pro using my old Raichle Flexons and at times felt like I was along for the ride on these skis.

BTW I'm 5'10", 178#. At my height and weight I could see using the regular stiff Bro as a BC set-up. The ski is relatively light. (So is the very stiff Bro)
However, IMO at my size I felt like I needed to really charge on the very stiff Bro to ride with it. For me there are BC situations where I want an easier time manuevering more slowly through things.
How much do you weigh? Do you prefer to charge hard and fast all day?

[benDover]

Thanks for the first hand knowledge!

I'm 5'7", 185 bulldog type. Workout 5 days a week + some sort of mtn biking/hiking 4 days a week. I''ve been skiing now for 17 yrs and I'm 27.
I've never had a season of less than 50 days, besides last year. On my 10th day out I blew out my ACL. It's been eight monthes and I'd say I'm at 90%. I feel real strong and I am confident that I'll be at 110% by Halloween!

Honestly, I'm not looking to set the world on fire with my backcountry set-up. I'm just getting into it. All of my backcountry experience previously was either with snowshoes, but mostly sidecountry bootpacks. Longest being Imperial Bowl behind Breckenridge.

This new wave of gear has really got me interested in the, what almost seems limitless, national forest land surrounding me in Bozeman, MT. I've got 2 Norwegian Elkhounds that love the snow more than anything I've ever seen and a wife with more energy than she knows what to do with. All three need exercise or they start to destroy things.

I definately charge to the best of my ability everyday out. The "very stiffs" were originally bought for the resort and I was going try and make the BC transition with my V-Pros because of their softness. Seems like the way to go, but I was wondering about the weight and I know the bros are light. I would love to rock my Technica Diablos with the Freerides & bros, but after asking around I was told I'd probably break the bindings, + no walk feature.

My skiing background=grew up in PA
moved to Vail right out of highschool for 4 years/ 100 days+ per year
back to PA for a season or two
Now on my third season in Bridger/big sky-moonlight
other notables-Mad River+most of VT,J-Hole,Mt. Baker WA, Crusty Butte, Highlands/Ajax, the beave,A-basin, and loveland.

All my BC experience is basically skis over-the-shoulder and trying to find the goods from the resort=sidecountry, right? Found some pretty sweet spots, but also spent some time walking back. What I'm expecting is to continue cutting ropes/accessing gates with my resort set up and the BC set up will be for slogs in the gallitans/madisons/bridgers/wherever with the fam and occationally pulling them out on the resort when I'm feeling the need to get lost.

The real question after all that is not based on my ability, because over the internet I could say anything, but rather given the right conditions would an AT boot and binding setup have the balls to turn a 188 very stiff bro model and have it be enjoyable?

[Vets]

Will you be doing more resort (lift access w/ traverses & boot packs) or full-on BC skiing (skinning tours)?
I'd set up the Bros for what you will be doing most because I think you'll like them better than other skis. I know I do.
Another option would be to use a BC setup as a resort setup.
Still another option would be to have more than one Bro setup.

As far as your question about an AT boot driving the very stiff 188s, I would say that the current unmodified Garmont Adrenalin would come up a little short. However, if next years boots are stiffer and/or you modify them (Booster straps/ stiffer tongue) it should work.

[benDover]

the "another bro set-up" option has crossed my mind many times. The 79's are very appealing, and I will most likely will make that purchase 07/08. Last spring I read all about how they were trying stay afloat and buy their own press so I coughed up the dough for 88's b/c that's what they had in stock. Lots of camber! Last run before the press.

Don't get me wrong the 188's look amazing and I got exactly what I wanted...a fat ski that rips at high speeds. I will be doing full-on skinning this season for the first time and I plan on doing it 30%-40% with resort eating up the majority. I'll definately be hiking the ridge at bridger often and exploring their new gate accessed BC alot.

I wish I could get the figures on flexion rate between AT boots versus my raceroom boots. I feel like I'm going to waste the potential of the super-stiffs in the BC and that they really yearn to be railed with lots of vert+with the whole tip diving thing I think a chair ride would come in handy. Is it safe to say that softer skis are more enjoyable after a long slog? Keep in mind this will be my first season devoting real time to touring.

[Toby]

No comment about whether your boots can drive them, but I used 188 superstiffs for touring last winter. I loved them. Light and easy to tour with, great on the downhill. I'm 6'2" 200lb, though, so slightly bigger than you. And I'm a fan of stiff skis. No noticeable tip diving for me, mounted on the line.

[benDover]

Thanx, that's encouraging
Toby-did you use them at the resort?
What boots/binding did you use

[splat]

Yo, ben....thought I'd chirp in here. The camber issues have been resolved.
Just spent the week putting some new pieces in the press, only to find a leak in the airbag, so I'll change that out tomorrow or Monday (depends if I go ski Lassen) and expect to press some skis next week or so. Been busy getting materials for the winter run so we're not pressing mid-winter. The supastiffs are well, stiff. But for pow, especially with the lowered camber, they'll be fine. Stiffs skis ski pow fine. OTOH, the lower in flex you go, the more user-friendly the Bros become.

[benDover]

sounds awesome splat, but I've already got the super cambered ones from last year--but congrats on the press and the production expectations this off-season. Sounds like you guys have your shit 2-gether. I'm super happy with the uber-camber skis I've got...I'm just afraid to put an AT set-up on them and not get their full potential. Am I over thinking this?
Note*-I did miss last season due to ACL so I have been jones'ing allittle hard.

[Toby]

Toby-did you use them at the resort?
What boots/binding did you use

Yes. They rocked for wide open super-G style turns, sucking up everything you throw at them. They didn't rock in the tight bumps, but I avoided them like the plague anyway. OTOH they power over those little half-bumps at GS speeds. They just don't like zipperlines (but I don't expect them to). They let you dictate the turn shape, so you can do linky little turns if you want, but they love to run on edge. IMHO they basically behave like old-school GS skis but lots fatter. I'd like to try them in the gates sometime.

Boots are Strolz Racing R. Bindings are S916s and Trekkers.

[upallnight]

The real question after all that is not based on my ability, because over the internet I could say anything, but rather given the right conditions would an AT boot and binding setup have the balls to turn a 188 very stiff bro model and have it be enjoyable?

Sounds good, bD.

A strong skier (and it sounds like you are) will be able to drive any ski with a boot as stiff (or as soft, depending on whether you're a glass half full/half empty kind of guy) as the Adrenalin. Having the ability to flex your ankles is not a bad thing, particularly with wide skis.

That said, the Adrenalin (or any softer boot) may cause you to put more work into driving a stiffer ski, because you may be used to relying on the ultra-stiff alpine race boot to pressure the tip, whereas you'll be using more of your leg to engage the tips.

So...the AT boot may not be as fun.

I'd say it's definitely doable, but a "regular stiff" (i.e., one notch down) would probably be the most fun in the BC. The other factor is that the further you go in the BC, the more you are likely to not encounter firm/tracked out conditions. (= less need for the super stiff)

I've read some posts over the past few months where someone worked methodically on decambering their Bros so the camber matched. It actually seemed pretty straightforward -- you just check on them every 24h after setting it up to measure how much you've reduced the camber. Given that you bought a batch that had the extreme camber, it seems like that would be a good summer project....or you could just wait and ski them hard.

If I were in your shoes, I'd probably try reducing the camber, and I'd put a pair of AT bindings (Naxos or Fritschis) on them and ski them all the time. One thing that might bite you is switching boots. If you switch back and forth between Adrenalins and race boots, you're going to have a tougher/longer transition, and you're going to spend time every day on the AT boots focusing on what you're missing instead of what they do well. Committing will help you learn to ski the AT boot-V. stiff Bro setup faster.

Good luck with the rest of the rehab and I hope you truly are 110% to get back into your hard riding next season!

[splat]

Sorry, mang, forgot you had those. Decambered, they'll be better for b/c.
That camber was too high this past year.
2P did tons of b/c on his with Trackhead.

[upallnight]

bD...found that 'decambering a Bro' thread for ya...it's right here.

Look for the "altapowderdaze" post on the 2nd page, toward the end of the thread for a picture.

[benDover]

thankyou all so much for shedding some light on my delema!
I actually was following that decambered thread when it was going on, so I am familiar and I may try it.....but, I must say that the extreme camber was a selling point for me! Strange, I know, but in some wierd way it's like a tight virgin I must conquer, or shall I say a green stallion to break!

still undecided on what to do. I'm going to look at some adrenalines today and some freerides. I hate to say it, but I'm leaning towards skiing those V-Pros in the BC simply because there softer + I'm really itchin' to lay into those uberstiff bros and break em' in naturally.

This is good news for you Splat! I'll be in the market for a pair of 179's come 07'. Oh, yeah I just recieved a jacket from Fate off Splat's recomendation for my wife and it fricken' rocks! Keep throwing out names of small companies...lurkers may seem shady and weird but they are listening and purchasing.

[iceman]

lurkers may seem shady and weird

Yes, yes they do.

Also they need to learn how to spell "dilemma".

Glad it seems like you got the info you needed, though, and good luck on your bros this season, whatever you decide to do.

[benDover]

did my post count give it away?

[Hicks]

Got some very stiffs.

I like how you can haul ass with them but from what you stated I would not recommend them as AT setup. Better go with the new 179 stiffs if you are new to AT - you will find it a lot easier to get around with them. Just my 0.02.

[skifishbum]

I rode fkna S stiffs w/ silvretta pure freerides and scarpa denali tt boot for ~ 100 days last season . The skis even w/ that "flexi" binding were unflapable at any speed. There were a handful of times I got my ass handed to me and mostly inverted snow our nasty hardpack or zipper crust. I'm blaming this on chamber cause operator error is out of the question The one thing I noticed on the super stiffs is they wanted to be at speed before they really wanted to turn and I needed to stay on top of em pretty much all the time. You may want to mount back a little also.