Top Boxer vs. Top UFC Fighter?

[iceman]

Yeah but what would any of them do with Andre the Giant, huh?

[ravenousllama]

Yeah but what would any of them do with Andre the Giant, huh?

Jump on his back and choke him out. IF the dread pirate roberts can do it, I'm sure these guys can.

[iceman]

Jump on his back and choke him out. IF the dread pirate roberts can do it, I'm sure these guys can.

VERY good point. Okay, so who wins, UFC fighters or pirates?

[Viva]

Anyone old enough (Ice, Tipp, et al) to remember that Wide World of Sports episode where Muhammad Ali fought against some little Japanese martial arts guy? That was friggen funny!


Yes, Kiddies, once upon a time, Wide World of Sports actually showed stuff like:

professional boxers vs. karate dudes;

ice motocross;

ski jumping;

midget car racing;

cliff diving;

and the Harlem Globetrotters

[Theodore]

Yeah but what would any of them do with Andre the Giant, huh?

Straight kick to the gut would be pretty effective on a big oaf like that.

[iceman]

Theodore, did you forget to take your medicine today?

[Theodore]

nope. I'm up to spec.

[Tippster]

I think the UFC vs. Pirate debate all hinges on if hooks and Peg Legs are allowed. Personally I think all Swashbuckling should be negated as an unfair advantage, as should cutlasses.... unless the UFC guys get rusty motorcycle chains.

[iceman]

I think the UFC vs. Pirate debate all hinges on if hooks and Peg Legs are allowed. Personally I think all Swashbuckling should be negated as an unfair advantage, as should cutlasses.... unless the UFC guys get rusty motorcycle chains.

That's so wrong, swashbuckling and cutlasses are standard Pirate fare, while spandex speedos and pastiness are what the ufc guys get.

[StuntCok]

Wasn't one of the early UFC fighters a ninja (or at least practitioner of ninjitsu)? If HE can't compete against the modern UFC fighters then it stands to reason that IF Ninjas > Pirates (as seems to be consensus) and UFC fighters > Ninjas, then it stands to reason that UFC fighers > Pirates. Simple logic.

[Tippster]

QED. Can't really argue with that.

[Steven S. Dallas]

Chuck Norris.

God, that shit never gets old.

Oh, wait, yes it does.

[CornFu]

Wasn't one of the early UFC fighters a ninja (or at least practitioner of ninjitsu)?

Ha! Yes! He had a school in Arlington, Texas, about 10 miles south of me. I went into his school a year or two after he got his ass handed to him in the octagon. He had this HUGE scar running diagnally across his face. He only taught for a year or two after that then his school shut down.

I guess his students didn't like the face-block technique he was teaching as a defense against elbows I don't understand it really, I mean, it worked for him so well in the UFC. Every elbow that was thrown at him he blocked with his face and the back of his head was barely touched, he must have had a bunch of pussies for students.<shrug>

[iceman]

Wasn't one of the early UFC fighters a ninja (or at least practitioner of ninjitsu)? If HE can't compete against the modern UFC fighters then it stands to reason that IF Ninjas > Pirates (as seems to be consensus) and UFC fighters > Ninjas, then it stands to reason that UFC fighers > Pirates. Simple logic.

Who the hell said Ninjas beat pirates? Not me, I'll say that much.

And I say Vikings trump both quite easily.

And WWE beats UFC. But Vikings obviously kick ass on the WWE dudes, that's a no-brainer.

We have never even addressed the Mongol issue, EVER, not in five years of this debate. Man-for-man I say Vikings kick Mongol ass, but of course they were Mongol HORDES, so maybe the Vikings lose, I'm not sure.

We won't worry about the ostrogoths and the Visigoths for now, although we do need to give a shout out to the Celts, my people. Hey, Hadrian didn't build that wall for nothin', naw mean?

UFC may or may not beat boxers, although the consensus says boxers lose.

Any way you look at it, the Pride/UFC guys are FAR down the totem pole, I'm not even sure they could beat carnies or hobos, to tell you the truth.

Well, hobos they could beat, I think. Carnies have odd powers though.

[Theodore]

We would be in major trouble if the last few pirates were deaded.... Buh bye skiing!

[runethechamp]

Too bad I didn't see this one before it got into the pirate/ninja/Andre the Giant discussion. I trained boxing for several years, and was trained by a guy who was a boxer, but had figured out on his own how to take care of martial arts guys and all kinds of other fighting forms. He worked in a military camp in the city I lived in, and that's where the gym we used to work out in was (I was 16-17 at the time). There would always be karate of taek-won-do people coming by asking if they could do some sparring with us and it was always lots of fun. They got really excited whenever we told them they could kick as much as they wanted, but then they didn't understand anything when they would have their asses handed to them. I just had fun with people with all kinds of black belts, and I never even did a real match in boxing. I had some kind of talent, but I was never that good.

The quick explanation is that a kick is always much slower than a punch, and it's most of the time easy to defend yourself against. I can explain more if anyone wants to listen.

Oh, and look at the sloppy punching the UFC guys have compared to boxers. It's just like watching chicks try to box.

I still think that a boxer, who knows how to defend himself against kicks, will always win, just by using his hands as weapons, because his hand technique will be far superior to other fighters. The hands will always be faster and can deliver a knockout punch anytime.

But that same boxing trainer I had also said that in a street figh, nothing beats a swift, straight kick to the nuts.

[PaSucks]

Vikings beat Mongols on the water, but the mongols had horses, and they come from Mongolia, which is a bad ass place. I think on land the Mongols would win, but it would be a good fight.

[StuntCok]

Too bad I didn't see this one before it got into the pirate/ninja/Andre the Giant discussion. I trained boxing for several years, and was trained by a guy who was a boxer, but had figured out on his own how to take care of martial arts guys and all kinds of other fighting forms. He worked in a military camp in the city I lived in, and that's where the gym we used to work out in was (I was 16-17 at the time). There would always be karate of taek-won-do people coming by asking if they could do some sparring with us and it was always lots of fun. They got really excited whenever we told them they could kick as much as they wanted, but then they didn't understand anything when they would have their asses handed to them. I just had fun with people with all kinds of black belts, and I never even did a real match in boxing. I had some kind of talent, but I was never that good.

The quick explanation is that a kick is always much slower than a punch, and it's most of the time easy to defend yourself against. I can explain more if anyone wants to listen.

Oh, and look at the sloppy punching the UFC guys have compared to boxers. It's just like watching chicks try to box.

I still think that a boxer, who knows how to defend himself against kicks, will always win, just by using his hands as weapons, because his hand technique will be far superior to other fighters. The hands will always be faster and can deliver a knockout punch anytime.

But that same boxing trainer I had also said that in a street figh, nothing beats a swift, straight kick to the nuts.

I think by Karate/Taekwondo martial artists you mean a whole other thing to what we were chatting about. Except for kyokoshin karate (and its derivatives), these guys do not fight full contact, do not use low kick techniques and fight for points, not kos. There is no doubt that these traditional fighters (who make up the vast majority of martial artists) are outclassed by boxers. In contrast, we are talking about the fully trained and experienced full contact fighters, who are much more rare. I fought professionally and have fought boxers and have the opposite experience; boxers are much less threatening than Muay Thai, Seido, Kyokoshin fighters. The most successful ex-boxer in k-1 is Botha (I know that other South African, Bernardo, who K-O'd Hug did well but he actually trained kyokushin for 10 years before boxing and had a reasonable kick defence. No boxer has taken the k-1 and most are downed by kicks. Usually their legs are taken out (watch Botha in the last K-1 final get downed by a sweet Bonjasky kick, better yet, watch Mighty Moe get K'0d by that Thai dude's jumping high kick before he even finished cocking his hook). In MMA, like pride, I can think of no boxer of any significance. The reason boxing techinques are less strong the more you loosen the rules is not because MMA fighters are weaker fighters, it is because, the closer you get to a real fight, the less relevant boxing technique becomes.

[runethechamp]

I think by Karate/Taekwondo martial artists you mean a whole other thing to what we were chatting about. Except for kyokoshin karate (and its derivatives), these guys do not fight full contact, do not use low kick techniques and fight for points, not kos. There is no doubt that these traditional fighters (who make up the vast majority of martial artists) are outclassed by boxers. In contrast, we are talking about the fully trained and experienced full contact fighters, who are much more rare. I fought professionally and have fought boxers and have the opposite experience; boxers are much less threatening than Muay Thai, Seido, Kyokoshin fighters. The most successful ex-boxer in k-1 is Botha (I know that other South African, Bernardo, who K-O'd Hug did well but he actually trained kyokushin for 10 years before boxing and had a reasonable kick defence. No boxer has taken the k-1 and most are downed by kicks. Usually their legs are taken out (watch Botha in the last K-1 final get downed by a sweet Bonjasky kick, better yet, watch Mighty Moe get K'0d by that Thai dude's jumping high kick before he even finished cocking his hook). In MMA, like pride, I can think of no boxer of any significance. The reason boxing techinques are less strong the more you loosen the rules is not because MMA fighters are weaker fighters, it is because, the closer you get to a real fight, the less relevant boxing technique becomes.

My experience was just an example here as I never was a really good boxer. But I knew how to take out low kicks easily as well. My main point is that a kick is always slower than a punch and is relatively easy to defend yourself against. So whoever is best with their hands win. The guy who trained me had figured out the kyokoshin guys as well but said they definitely demanded a lot of respect.

[StuntCok]

My experience was just an example here as I never was a really good boxer. But I knew how to take out low kicks easily as well. My main point is that a kick is always slower than a punch and is relatively easy to defend yourself against. So whoever is best with their hands win. The guy who trained me had figured out the kyokoshin guys as well but said they definitely demanded a lot of respect.

What do you mean by "easily"? Thrown by top fighters in a full contact situation? If so, you should have become a fighter because they are difficult things to learn to defend against and require constant shin "conditioning" (which involves deadening the nerves in your shin). I fought for 14 years in an art specialising in low kicks and wouldn't call their defence "easy". Even boxers who now make their living in k-1 (like Botha) and are getting much better still fall victim to the low kick more than any other thechnique. I have got more than half of my k'os in my career from kicking low (kinda high, in the big leagues, I think only Nick Petaswho was also Kyokushin, has that kind of record) and those were usually against experienced low kickers.

[runethechamp]

What do you mean by "easily"? Thrown by top fighters in a full contact situation? If so, you should have become a fighter because they are difficult things to learn to defend against and require constant shin "conditioning" (which involves deadening the nerves in your shin). I fought for 14 years in an art specialising in low kicks and wouldn't call their defence "easy". Even boxers who now make their living in k-1 (like Botha) and are getting much better still fall victim to the low kick more than any other thechnique. I have got more than half of my k'os in my career from kicking low (kinda high, in the big leagues, I think only Nick Petaswho was also Kyokushin, has that kind of record) and those were usually against experienced low kickers.

Read what I'm saying. The kick is always slower and is therefore easier to get away from or neutralize. It's my experience. You had a different one. I'm just stating my opinion here and I still think the boxer wins. But I'm not surprised that the low kick takes previous boxers out, it was one of the more difficult kicks to defend yourself against.

[StuntCok]

So where do you stand on ninjas then?

[runethechamp]

So where do you stand on ninjas then?

They use all kinds of swords and sticks and shit so I stay away from them.

No really, any super duper top level master martial arts dude is some serious shit. I don't want anything to to with those.

[CornFu]

I think by Karate/Taekwondo martial artists you mean a whole other thing to what we were chatting about. Except for kyokoshin karate (and its derivatives), these guys do not fight full contact, do not use low kick techniques and fight for points, not kos...

The reason boxing techinques are less strong the more you loosen the rules is not because MMA fighters are weaker fighters, it is because, the closer you get to a real fight, the less relevant boxing technique becomes.

I was going to respond to runethechamp and say that the reason his experiences are what they are is because most "martial artists" couldn't fight their way out of a wet paper bag...but you gave a better explination.

[CornFu]

The guy who trained me had figured out the kyokoshin guys as well but said they definitely demanded a lot of respect.

You must have had a good teacher. Which points out another important point in this discussion. Many times the fighter is much more of a determining factor in the fight than what style or technique he has been trained in.