Is it World War III

[MeatPuppet]

Is this thread about the conflict itself, or evacuating Americans..?

This thread is about a bunch of bored skiers trying to distract themselves until the snow starts falling again.

[MeatPuppet]

That's somewhat true, but then they should eliminate this:

from the top of each Consular Information Sheet. It's particularly curious because their Israel/WB/GS travel warning, published today, advises
i.e. get the fuck out. definitely different from "consider departing"


and there are other 'errors'.

So many in timing/facts/structure I'm not sure how the government can make people sign a blank check to get out, when the government can't even communicate out how dangerous it is in the first place.

I see your point, and don't disagree completely. OTOH, anyone thinking it must be safe to travel to a given location because the government hasn't, in explicit terms, said that it is not, really has no business travelig abroad to begin with.

[splat]

Jeezuz shitfuck. I can't believe, after dropping a couple kabillion bucks in Iraq, that crap like this reimbursement even warrants discussion, let alone anyone thinking it would even put a dent in the cost of mobilizing warships and personnel (that are mobilizing anyways). To me, it's just another symbolic gesture, not unlike Katrina, to make sure we realize that the government we elected will never be done fucking us in the ass.

That cost probably doesn't even come close to one visit to the region by Condi Rice. Hopefully, she'll arrive to tell everyone she is the antichrist with a big "Fooled You! Didn't I, Biatches? Now Die!"

[Dexter Rutecki]

A very interesting interview about Hezbollah on NPR's Fresh Air today, by this New Yorker writer Jeffrey Goldberg, who spent some time in Lebanon interviewing those guys (ballsy or stupid guy, I guess).

Made some good points, which help explain some of the bombing you may be seeing on TV:

Hezbollah controls southern Beirut and has built bunkers below ground in civilian neighborhoods. (explains why a BBC reporter commented yesterday that a strike looked like the result of a 'bunker buster'). All their offices are in civilian apartment buildings, on the lower floors, putting them in the position of hiding behind women children. They also store rockets in civilian homes, buildings, and warehouses, spread out to avoid easy targetting--as a Lebanese man noted on the news yesterday, most basements that could be used as shelters have been rented out for 'storage'.
When rockets are fired, they do so from the center of towns and villages, again to make retaliation more difficult.
Also, he explained that there are still some lines both sides have yet to cross (which, as he noted, hopefully won't be crossed). Israel, he said, has the capacity to very quickly destroy most of Lebanon's heavily populated areas (he wasn't referring to nukes, I don't think). Hezbollah can probably hit Tel Aviv with rockets (I had assumed they would do this), but hasn't because it realizes that would provoke an even heavier response.

Here's a link to his New Yorker article from 2002 (obviously the stuff about Syria being there no longer applies):

http://www.newyorker.com/printables/fact/021014fa_fact4

It's long, so one of the many notable (and sometimes chilling) passages:

The chief spokesman for Hezbollah is a narrow-shouldered, self-contained man of about forty named Hassan Ezzeddin, who dresses in the style of an Iranian diplomat: trim beard, dark jacket, white shirt, no tie. His office is on a low floor of an apartment building in the southern suburbs of Beirut, which are called the Dahiya. Hezbollah has five main offices there, and all are in apartment buildings, which helps to create a shield between the bureaucracy and Israeli fighter jets and bombers that periodically fly overhead.

[skideeppow]

There are "warnings" about going to Israel (and Argentina, Greece, Turkey, Egypt, South Africa, ...ad nauseam) as well - that doesn't mean you can't go there and NOT expect your government to help you get out when a fucking WAR breaks out. Lebanon wasn't exactly Rwanda.

I love the travel advisory. Did anyone see the Sunday Travel Section on the NYT? Travel to Israel and experience an archeology dig.
Nice, someone is thinking there.

[Tippster]

how can anyone consider a country harboring terrorists who fire rockets at another country who always has their finger on the trigger "a safe place"?

I kinda like it here in the US...

[iceman]

I kinda like it here in the US...

Horrible use of the fm, minus 100 points for you.

[Schmear]

Horrible use of the fm, minus 100 points for you.

I think we need an emoticon scorecard. How much off for using this?

[Schmear]

Or this?

[iceman]

-10 for the first, castration, destruction of your home and salting of the land for the second.

So I don't read POWDER very sequentially, I go though and look at the pics, then keep them around forever and kinda read the articles later - just read your piece today about the rain-soaked mountain parking lot and the garbage bag people, I dug it and then realized who wrote it only after I got to the end.

[Schmear]

Thanks. So this thread has a peaceful, happy ending after all.

edit: pagetop

[iceman]

Thanks. So this thread has a peaceful, happy ending after all.

edit: PAGE TOP

You will pay for that, mon ami.

[Schmear]

The first draft was my tribute to BakerBoy.

[iceman]

The first draft was my tribute to BakerBoy.

haha, I was just about to say how um, gay that was then you changed it.

I was nonplussed, to say the least.

[Ripzalot]

Hezbollah controls southern Beirut and has built bunkers below ground in civilian neighborhoods. (explains why a BBC reporter commented yesterday that a strike looked like the result of a 'bunker buster'). All their offices are in civilian apartment buildings, on the lower floors, putting them in the position of hiding behind women children. They also store rockets in civilian homes, buildings, and warehouses, spread out to avoid easy targetting--as a Lebanese man noted on the news yesterday, most basements that could be used as shelters have been rented out for 'storage'.
When rockets are fired, they do so from the center of towns and villages, again to make retaliation more difficult.
Also, he explained that there are still some lines both sides have yet to cross (which, as he noted, hopefully won't be crossed). Israel, he said, has the capacity to very quickly destroy most of Lebanon's heavily populated areas (he wasn't referring to nukes, I don't think). Hezbollah can probably hit Tel Aviv with rockets (I had assumed they would do this), but hasn't because it realizes that would provoke an even heavier response.

that's some great information there. the MSM should be required to include that information every time they show a video of some lebanese man wailing about the loss of his wife or child. showing the "civilian tragedy" out of context just fuels the Hezbollah apologists.

oh and btw, this thread is useless without pictures. i'll bet she works for the lebanese tourist bureau...

[bad_roo]

So what would you do if you were running Hezbollah? Build a big warehouse HQ out in the desert with a logo and a bullseye on the roof?

[Squatch]

it's safe to say that i am not qualified to run hezbollah, because i would be pretty much drunk the whole time. plus that bulleseye shit is hard to paint.

[Ripzalot]

So what would you do if you were running Hezbollah? Build a big warehouse HQ out in the desert with a logo and a bullseye on the roof?

questions like that attempt to rationalize the actions of terrorists.

simply accept the fact that the civilians that are killed are the responsibility of hezbollah, not israel. the media's propaganda campaign against israel unfairly demonizes israel, while giving a terrorist organization a free pass.

[greg]

I wasn't aware hizbollah's actions were'nt rational. I thought they were extremely rational.

On the other hand, I think it is part of israels long-term strategy to appear highly irrational.

[Ripzalot]

I wasn't aware hizbollah's actions were'nt rational. I thought they were extremely rational.

On the other hand, I think it is part of israels long-term strategy to appear highly irrational.

israel's actions are motivated by survival. hezzbollah and hamas are motivated by hatred. which is the rational of the two?

[greg]

If you read my post you will find that I didn't say Israels actions were irrational.

For being irrational hizbollah is quite successfull. Don't you think so?

[bad_roo]

it's safe to say that i am not qualified to run hezbollah, because i would be pretty much drunk the whole time. plus that bulleseye shit is hard to paint.

Can you imagine how pissed you'd be if you'd just spent all day painting it, getting the circles perfect using string and everything and then some Israeli comes and puts a Paveway straight through your handiwork. Drunk or not, you'd load up your slingshot and let one fly.

[Cono Este]

So what would you do if you were running Hezbollah? Build a big warehouse HQ out in the desert with a logo and a bullseye on the roof?

So what would you do if you were living in southern lebanon? Let hezbollah put some rockets in your basement and build a big bullseye on your roof?

[bad_roo]

So what would you do if you were living in southern lebanon? Let hezbollah put some rockets in your basement and build a big bullseye on your roof?

Hell no, I'd be straight up there with a scrubbing brush, some whitewash and my Giro on.

[Ripzalot]

If you read my post you will find that I didn't say Israels actions were irrational.

For being irrational hizbollah is quite successfull. Don't you think so?

ah, they appear to be irrational. perhaps to you. not to me. what are they doing that is irrational?

if you measure hezzbollah's success in the number of dead lebanese and israeli civilians, then yes, hezzbollah are fucking genious.