Is it World War III

[Archie]

isreal just fired rockets at beruit international airport, this is getting interesting.
http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/...ast/index.html

Oh THAT will bring the non-Hezbollah Lebanese around to seeing the Israeli point of view. Taking out civilian infrastructure that's not in south where Hezbollah is?

[natty dread]

The Israelis blaming the current Lebanese government for the acts Hezbollah would be like the US blaming Germany for 9/11.

uh-huh, whatever dude
post THEN smoke crack

[Archie]

uh-huh, whatever dude
post THEN smoke crack

Meaning that some of those who flew into the towers were living in Germany previously. But we didn't go after Germany after 9/11.
Hezbollah is not the Lebanese government, so why does Israel attack civilian Lebenon now?

[natty dread]

Meaning that some of those who flew into the towers were living in Germany previously. But we didn't go after Germany after 9/11.
Hezbollah is not the Lebanese government, so why does Israel attack civilian Lebenon now?

Uhhh, you're wrong. Do a lil research before you spew.
Found this in about 1 minute.
From Wikipedia:

Hezbollah is regarded by many in the Arab and Muslim worlds as a legitimate resistance movement and is a recognized political party in Lebanon, where it has participated in government.

After the 2005 elections, Hezbollah held 23 seats (up from eight previously) in the 128-member Lebanese Parliament. It also participated for the first time in the Lebanese government that was formed in July 2005. Hezbollah has two ministers in the government, and a third is Hezbollah-endorsed. It is primarily active in the Bekaa Valley, the southern suburbs of Beirut, and southern Lebanon. The group is headed by Sayyed Hassan Nasrallah and is financed largely by Iran and Syria, though it also raises funds itself through charities and commercial activities.

Hezbollah is an active participant in the political life and processes of Lebanon, and its scope of operation is far beyond its initial militant one. In 1992, it participated in elections for the first time, winning 12 out of 128 seats in parliament. It won 10 seats in 1996, and 8 in 2000. In the general election of 2005, it won 23 seats nationwide, and an Amal-Hezbollah alliance won all 23 seats in Southern Lebanon. Since the end of the Israeli occupation in southern Lebanon on May 22, 2000, Hezbollah has been involved in activities like building schools, clinics, and hospitals.

[MeatPuppet]

Hezbollah is not the Lebanese government, so why does Israel attack civilian Lebenon now?

From the CNN article soul_skier linked:


"Hezbollah, which enjoys substantial backing from Syria and Iran, is considered a terrorist organization by the United States and Israel. The group holds posts in Lebanon's government."

[Archie]

Uhhh, you're wrong. Do a lil research before you spew.
Found this in about 1 minute.
From Wikipedia:

Hezbollah is regarded by many in the Arab and Muslim worlds as a legitimate resistance movement and is a recognized political party in Lebanon, where it has participated in government.

After the 2005 elections, Hezbollah held 23 seats (up from eight previously) in the 128-member Lebanese Parliament. It also participated for the first time in the Lebanese government that was formed in July 2005. Hezbollah has two ministers in the government, and a third is Hezbollah-endorsed. It is primarily active in the Bekaa Valley, the southern suburbs of Beirut, and southern Lebanon. The group is headed by Sayyed Hassan Nasrallah and is financed largely by Iran and Syria, though it also raises funds itself through charities and commercial activities.

Hezbollah is an active participant in the political life and processes of Lebanon, and its scope of operation is far beyond its initial militant one. In 1992, it participated in elections for the first time, winning 12 out of 128 seats in parliament. It won 10 seats in 1996, and 8 in 2000. In the general election of 2005, it won 23 seats nationwide, and an Amal-Hezbollah alliance won all 23 seats in Southern Lebanon. Since the end of the Israeli occupation in southern Lebanon on May 22, 2000, Hezbollah has been involved in activities like building schools, clinics, and hospitals.

Everyone knows that Hezbollah is a political party in Lebenon. But Lebenon's form of government is not like the US's and you should not project such on this situation. Hezbollah has its own army. Can you imagine the Democrats in the US having their own army?

Instead of working with the majority, anti-Hezbollah Lebanese population, Israel has decided to attack the whole country. Big mistake.

The new government in Lebenon is weak, and likely could not have thrown Hezbollah out of the south without help. This was an opportunity to forge new alliances and Israel blew it.

[MeatPuppet]

Everyone knows that Hezbollah is a political party in Lebenon... This was opportunity to forge new alliances and Israel blew it.

Can you imagine what would happen to the members of the Lebanese government who turned on Hezbollah and helped Israel remove them from Southern Lebanon? I think it would only be a matter of days before they and every member of their families lost their head.

The Lebanese government, as a whole, might or might not like Hezbollah. But I doubt they like Hezbollah less then they like Israel. Pragmatism is a rare commodity in the Middle East.

[Archie]

Pragmatism is a rare commodity in the Middle East.

That's true, but in Beirut and other parts of the country there was a start of a new example for a freer, more tolerant state than most other middle east countries. That kernel needed support, not bombs.

Now Israel has a created new generation of enemies and the cycle continues.


edit - to put below

[buckethead]

Originally posted by Archie
Can you imagine the Democrats in the US having their own army?

Yea, they might have...balls

Originally Posted by Archie

Hezbollah is not the Lebanese government, so why does Israel attack civilian Lebenon now?

Israel seems to relish its opportunities for collective punishment...they do it all the time - and in so doing, of course radicalize entire populations.

[natty dread]

Now Israel has a created new generation of enemies and the cycle continues.

Or syria/lebanon has created the new generation of enemies...

edit: Of course it is a vicious cycle, with atrocities on both sides over the last 50 years, but blaming israel when it responds to attacks within in its borders is pointless.

[Archie]

Or syria/lebanon has created the new generation of enemies...

Syria yes. (that's new?)

Lebenon no. The Lebanese government did not endorse the attack or kidnapping.

Maybe this will turn the tide against Hezbollah within Lebenon, but the burning airport isn't going to help.



edit - sure I think Israel has every right to go after Hezbollah, to take out all the missle sites, etc. But bombing the country's international airport (if they in fact did) is the typical over-reaction.

[natty dread]

Lebenon no. The Lebanese government did not endorse the attack or kidnapping.

If lebanon doesn't wish to be attacked, it shouldn't have a party affiliated with terrorists in it's government and it should attempt to control the terrorist elements within its borders.

But we are arguing in circles here. You believe there should be a distinction made between the terrorist and non-terrorist factions of hezbollah--I don't.
Just as I don't differentiate between the hamas in power and the hamas that calls for israel's destruction and blows up arab and israeli civilians in pizza parlors.

[MeatPuppet]

Maybe this will turn the tide against Hezbollah within Lebenon, but the burning airport isn't going to help.

Hezbollah is part of the government in Lebanon. It's kind of hard to cripple Hezbollah without hitting the infastructure.


"The IDF said it targeted the airport because it served as a central hub for the transfer for weapons and supplies to Hezbollah."



http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/...ast/index.html

.

[Archie]

If lebanon doesn't wish to be attacked, it shouldn't have a party affiliated with terrorists in it's government and it should attempt to control the terrorist elements within its borders.

That's true, but that's asking a lot of new government in a tough situation. And I'm sure there those around the world who might say "if the US doesn't wish to be attacked, it shouldn't have a party affiliated with terrorists in it's government and it should attempt to control the terrorist elements within its borders." The point being, its a matter of perspective. And peace rarely occurs overnight.

But we are arguing in circles here. You believe there should be a distinction made between the terrorist and non-terrorist factions of hezbollah--I don't.

I was making the distinction between those in Lebanon who do not support Hezbollah (the majority) and those who do.
However, if your riding with Hezbollah, then you should held accountable for the organization's acts, whether you're building a school or shooting a rocket.

[f2f]

Yeah, wasn't there a write up in Powder this last year about skiing in Lebanon? Or am I thinking of something else?

iran. beautiful skiing, the huge sidewall of a building saying "down with the USA" still there. very interesting article.

[Archie]

"The IDF said it targeted the airport because it served as a central hub for the transfer for weapons and supplies to Hezbollah."

Right.
I bet they flew those rockets in from Syria in an airplane.

[splat]

How do I answer a question with a question when there are no question marks on any of the questions

[ill-advised strategy]

However, if your riding with Hezbollah, then you should held accountable for the organization's acts, whether you're building a school or shooting a rocket.

I'm thinking of riding for Hezbollah next season brah.

[GheePup]

How do I answer a question with a question when there are no question marks on any of the questions

????????????

[splat]

I'm thinking of riding for Hezbollah next season brah.

With that Israeli howitzer crew Alta is bringing in for avie control next season, you'll be hittin 17 virgins in no time.

[Speedfreak]

With regards to Iran stepping in, the head general of Iran's Revolutionary guard is having a meeting with Assad in Damascus right now...hmmm, wonder what they're talking about.

With regards to Hizb'allah - they're assholes, but one could say that the Israelis are too. If they hadn't entered Lebanon, their guys wouldn't have been captured (yes, the soldiers were captured here in Lebanon while trying to clean out a cell of katyusha rocket firing fuckheads...not everything the IDF says on TV is true...do you really expect them to admit they got sloppy?).
You should see the shit that Hizb'allah TV is showing right now...

Basically both sides are totally full of shit and are making my life super shitty right now. Waking up to the shelling of the airport 3 miles from here this morning was fucking sweet.

On a lighter note, I went up to the cedars 2 weeks ago and checked it out, the terrain looks sick...anybody up for a winter trip here??? When shit cools down of course...

Aiight. time to run and solidify an exit strategy in case the shit really hits the fan...

Peas

EDIT: As far as the govt here goes, it looks like the Sunni/Druze/Maronite Christian majority may be forced to the Israeli side of things (or on their own) as the Syrians aren't well liked (that's putting it nicely - most people here would give their left nut to slit Assad's throat) by many except Hizb'allah - this place will go absolutely apeshit if the ASSyrians move back in. Could end up with all of them ganging up on the shiites...seeing as the guys that did the kidnapping misread the memo asking for "IDF Jews" and nabbed 2 IDF Druze instead (Walid Jumblatt can't be happy bout that, and could pull the rest of the majority in with him). Still waiting to see if Michel Aoun pulls away from the "friendship agreement" with the shiites...

[splat]

Dude - what are you doing in Lebanon, if it's ok to ask?
Yogachik's neighbor is from Beirut and gave me some history and insight on the PLO's operations there. She said it's safe for westerners now. But that could change, as you said. Her family left when her brother was almost killed from a mortar round or something.

When Damascus is ashes and smoke...

[Tuckerman]

WWIII is gonna start with Canada attacking Iceland in June 2014.

I got my money on Iceland

[Tuckerman]

Can you imagine the Democrats in the US having their own army?

They do it's called the media. And they mean business.

[PlayHarder]

I got my money on Iceland

OK, that's it. I've had enough of these little slams from you bastards....















Oh, wait. It's time for beer and a bong rip, nevermind.