Is it World War III

[Tuckerman]

When was 9/11?

They made it easy to remember the date is in the name.

[Tuckerman]

Looks like Hezbollah wins WW3.

[Cono Este]

There is no end to that war, just intermission.

[Tuckerman]

[mr_gyptian]

Looks like Hezbollah wins WW3.

How do you figure?

The major condition of the ceasefire is that Hezbollah disarms and that the Lebanese government assists the UN in doing so. Both Hezbollah and the Lebanese have flat denied that they have any intention of disarming. Once again the UN will prove itself utterly ineffective and Israel will go back in and finish the job.

Hezbollah fired over 4000 rockets to no real effect. 40 civilians died. Hezbollah lost billions in infrastructure, equipment, and supplies. They also lost over 600 fighters/combatants/minutemen.

Israel will finish this, because no one else will.

[Rasputin]

How do you figure?

The major condition of the ceasefire is that Hezbollah disarms and that the Lebanese government assists the UN in doing so. Both Hezbollah and the Lebanese have flat denied that they have any intention of disarming. Once again the UN will prove itself utterly ineffective and Israel will go back in and finish the job.

Hezbollah fired over 4000 rockets to no real effect. 40 civilians died. Hezbollah lost billions in infrastructure, equipment, and supplies. They also lost over 600 fighters/combatants/minutemen.

Israel will finish this, because no one else will.

OH MY GOD, Mr. G, take off the blinders and your myopia will be cured! Israel sure didn't finish it the last time they tried, they only taught a generation of Lebanese that Israel is their enemy. Do you think those rockets or the money to buy them came from Lebanon? Duh! As long as Israel continues to win friends and influence people ( ) the way they tend to, there will always be a deep pool of folks ready to join Hezbollah and fire the weapons they are supplied.

[Grange]

Unfortunately all Israel did was create more enemies than they killed. Anyone who thinks all Israel needed was more time to bomb and Hezbollah would have been defeated must have skipped history class.

The way this cease fire is going the only thing that will be accomplished is bringing Lebanon closer to Iran and Syria, which is exactly what the US and Israel didn't want.

[Cono Este]

I think its safe to say that, as long as Israel exists, it will have an indefinite amount of enemies in the Arab world. There would have been no less had they allowed Hezbolah to arm itself with ever sophisticated weaponary and fire rockets on a weekly basis into Northern Israel. Nevermind the kidnappings. Nobody knows this more than the Israelis. The purpose of their assualt was to temporarily reduce hezzbolah fighting capabilties and bring to attention the failure of the UN to police southern Lebanon and the outright refusal of the Lebanese govt to maintain control of its own territory, as it pledged do so in 2001.

They just legnthened a burning fuse a little.

[TJ.Brk]

Unfortunately all Israel did was create more enemies than they killed. Anyone who thinks all Israel needed was more time to bomb and Hezbollah would have been defeated must have skipped history class.

The way this cease fire is going the only thing that will be accomplished is bringing Lebanon closer to Iran and Syria, which is exactly what the US and Israel didn't want.

Actually the mistake Israel made was on the Intel side. Hezbollah is a professional army now. They under estimated them, and when Israel finally did the smart thing going in full bore it was to late and the political process superceded what they really needed to do militarily.

[TJ.Brk]

How do you figure?

The major condition of the ceasefire is that Hezbollah disarms and that the Lebanese government assists the UN in doing so. Both Hezbollah and the Lebanese have flat denied that they have any intention of disarming. Once again the UN will prove itself utterly ineffective and Israel will go back in and finish the job.

Dude the French will be incharge of the UN troops. They will surrender to Hezbollah and turn over all munitions 30 seconds after they land there.

[Grange]

The purpose of their assualt was to temporarily reduce hezzbolah fighting capabilties and bring to attention the failure of the UN to police southern Lebanon and the outright refusal of the Lebanese govt to maintain control of its own territory, as it pledged do so in 2001.

They just legnthened a burning fuse a little.

Really, I thought one of their stated goal was to disarm Hezbollah, which is not going to happen. Now the official gov't of Lebanon is closer to Hezbollah than they ever have been. By pushing these groups together as well as closer to Syria and Iran even if they lengthened the burning fuse a little they increased the size of the bomb.

[Cono Este]

Really, I thought one of their stated goal was to disarm Hezbollah, which is not going to happen. Now the official gov't of Lebanon is closer to Hezbollah than they ever have been. By pushing these groups together as well as closer to Syria and Iran even if they lengthened the burning fuse a little they increased the size of the bomb.

Well, what you say is true. We both know Hezbollah will not disarm. But legally the lebanese govt and the UN has been prompted to try something.

This war did not prompt anything to change, the hate between these people was, has and is as big as it gets. And, I dont think the bomb gets any bigger, to say that is, implies that it can get smaller. Which will never happen as long as Israel exists.

I think the next few weeks will be interesting. The lebanese govt does not want to disarm Hezbollah and probably cannot. The french want the rules of engagement clearly outlined, because even they know this is all a pipe dream.

If the lebanese defend Hezbollah, at least they will have shown their true colors. If hezbollah gains poilical adavantage from this in the lebanese govt, then at least somebody might be acocuntable down the road. But regardless, allowing a terrorist ministate to flourish, in the vacum that has become Lebanon, free from all accountability of international law, is a scenario that cannot be allowed.

[MeatPuppet]

Really, I thought one of their stated goal was to disarm Hezbollah, which is not going to happen. Now the official gov't of Lebanon is closer to Hezbollah than they ever have been. By pushing these groups together as well as closer to Syria and Iran even if they lengthened the burning fuse a little they increased the size of the bomb.

I agree.

Israel should have waged war and not stopped until Hezbollah was destroyed, which might have meant a war with Syria and Iran. Anything less just makes the situation worse...as it now is.

[MeatPuppet]

But legally the lebanese govt and the UN has been prompted to try something.

The UN is impotent, and more of an vacine against peace than anything else. They offer the illusion of peace, without being able to deliver.

And, I dont think the bomb gets any bigger, to say that is, implies that it can get smaller. Which will never happen as long as Israel exists.

Jordan and Egypt have somehow managed to learn to live along side Israel. That suggests that it is possible. Intresting enough, those two countries both had to have their ass' handed to them by the Israeli war machine before they were motivated to try to get along with Israel. There is a lesson to be learned in this.

[Cono Este]

I know, thats why I called it a pipe dream.

And it was not just the iDF that has convinced Eygpt and Jordan to get along, it has been an equal amount of US aid (money) that has convinced them to accept Israel, for now.

I am not optomistic. In fact I think that place will be perpetually fucked.

[Rasputin]

The UN is impotent, and more of an vacine against peace than anything else. They offer the illusion of peace, without being able to deliver.



Jordan and Egypt have somehow managed to learn to live along side Israel. That suggests that it is possible. Intresting enough, those two countries both had to have their ass' handed to them by the Israeli war machine before they were motivated to try to get along with Israel. There is a lesson to be learned in this.

The UN is a mechanism for those who seek peace to achieve it, but if Nations/armies want war the UN has no strength to stop them.

Eygypt and Jordan also had LEADERSHIP that spoke for their country, and had command over the military which fought the Israelis, whereas Lebanon's government is divided; there is no commanding head of state, as the Hezbollah has popular support from much of the populace, and Lebanese government holds no sway over their actions.

Further, the weaponry is being supplied to Hezbollah beyond the control of the Lebanese government. This is a much different picture than it was with Eygypt or Jordan.

[Grange]

Well, what you say is true. We both know Hezbollah will not disarm. But legally the lebanese govt and the UN has been prompted to try something.

This war did not prompt anything to change, the hate between these people was, has and is as big as it gets. And, I dont think the bomb gets any bigger, to say that is, implies that it can get smaller. Which will never happen as long as Israel exists.

I think the next few weeks will be interesting. The lebanese govt does not want to disarm Hezbollah and probably cannot. The french want the rules of engagement clearly outlined, because even they know this is all a pipe dream.

If the lebanese defend Hezbollah, at least they will have shown their true colors. If hezbollah gains poilical adavantage from this in the lebanese govt, then at least somebody might be acocuntable down the road. But regardless, allowing a terrorist ministate to flourish, in the vacum that has become Lebanon, free from all accountability of international law, is a scenario that cannot be allowed.

No it doesn't imply the "bomb" could get smaller. It means the "bomb" could have stayed the same size.

Did you see the interview the Leader of Lebanon gave Fox news? To me it sounded like he was defending Hezbollah. Before they claimed they didn't have the power to disarm Hezbollah and now it doesn't even seem like they want to. All that does was increase the size of the "bomb"

I supported Israel going after Hezbollah after they came into Israel and kidnapped two soldiers. Unfortunately they weren't able to take solve any problems and may have increased them by bringing Hezbollah, Lebanon, Syria and Iran closer. I hope I'm wrong, but that interview didn't lead me to believe I am.

[Cono Este]

They were already Butt buddies Grange. And if thats the way the Lebanese PM feels, its time his silly Syrian puppet ass finds a nice place in a warm french whorehouse. He aint helping.

Meat, the reason I am so pesimistic, is because the days in which these problems can be settled in a one sided conventional war, somewhere in the Sinia, are long over. Just a matter of time until is Israel is held hostage by a nuke. These people have wised up some. The writing is on the wall.

[Tuckerman]

Looks like the French already gave up.

``We were disappointed, yes -- we had hoped France would be able to do more,'' Malloch Brown said. He said he initially feared the French offer would ``cast a shadow'' over the potential troop contributors' meeting, but in the end, he said, it did not deter the others.

[MeatPuppet]

Meat, the reason I am so pesimistic, is because the days in which these problems can be settled in a one sided conventional war, somewhere in the Sinia, are long over. Just a matter of time until is Israel is held hostage by a nuke. These people have wised up some. The writing is on the wall.

I tend to agree with you. It's going to be ugly and I don't expect it will be resolved with words.
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