Is it World War III

[bklyn]

pop question - why and how the hell are there 25,000 americans in hezbollah friendly lebanon? anyone think they are all on holiday there?

Why would anyone visit any country ringing this big cesspool?

[bad_roo]

Pizza, skiing and Lamborghinis are a good start.

[Cono Este]

Why would anyone visit any country ringing this big cesspool?

Tracy, I hope you getting royalties for that T-shirt modeling, it's gonna be worth millions.

[Tuckerman]

You drunk cause that shit made no sense.

You haven't made a single intelligent point or rebuke to points you don't agree with throughout the entire thread. All you're good for is yelling and screaming like some whiny old ignorant man set in his ways. Have you even been to Lebanon (very decent skiing at Mzaar btw) or actually took the time to look into its recent history? You clearly have not the slightest clue what you are talking about besides regurgitation of some biased news sources and your "I'm right, you're wrong" complex. I know you must find it addicting, but lay off the Newsmax. It will be interesting to see how your position holds in several weeks from now when more reporting comes from the Lebanese side.

So go ahead, pull out your trusty anti-semite card because I'm critical of Israel's strategy in this particular conflict. You're such a fuckin shysta clown.

Yeah, well your a JONG anway do you have a sister?

[Tippster]

Try not to let me irritate you so much Tip, its just the internet.

Let's see - this administration/Congress that you've been defending is gonna charge their own citizens to get them out of a war zone, and you think that's OK. You don't irritate me - the mindset that we need to pay extra for a basic service the government/military should provide does. They're there to keep us safe, right - not ask for reimbursement? What the hell am I paying 50% of my tax dollars for?

And yes - the non-government folks in Lebanon are forced to sign IOUs to get evacuated. Our fellow countrymen & women. From a war zone.

Even Libertarians see the Governments main role as keeping our citizens safe.

Why dont we all just concentrate on getting them out first? Then we can stew over the mistakes or bad policy.

Why not stew about it now, get rid of this stupid policy that might force some to choose to stay because they can't afford what their own government wants to charge them... thus possibly getting killed needlessly?

[Cono Este]

I don't always defend this administration, in fact at times I am quite critical of it. But blaming them for everything thats wrong in this world only clouds the issue even more.

What the hell does Katrina have to do with this? Why does Nancy always capitalize on this shit? It bugs.

More important stories to cover than bablle of the usual suspects, and I dont think many are complaining about how they leave a war zone.

Without discussing Israels right to defend itself, or the influence of Iran and Syria in the area, I would say that we too are allowing the latest destruction of Lebanon for greater geo political purposes, that kinda bugs me too. And probably the bigger story.

[Tuckerman]

Let's see - this administration/Congress that you've been defending is gonna charge their own citizens to get them out of a war zone, and you think that's OK. You don't irritate me - the mindset that we need to pay extra for a basic service the government/military should provide does. They're there to keep us safe, right - not ask for reimbursement? What the hell am I paying 50% of my tax dollars for?

And yes - the non-government folks in Lebanon are forced to sign IOUs to get evacuated. Our fellow countrymen & women. From a war zone.

Even Libertarians see the Governments main role as keeping our citizens safe.
Why not stew about it now, get rid of this stupid policy that might force some to choose to stay because they can't afford what their own government wants to charge them... thus possibly getting killed needlessly?

And this from the State Department

Press Statement
Sean McCormack, Spokesman
Washington, DC
July 18, 2006


No Payments Required of American Citizens Departing Lebanon

In this extraordinary case, Secretary Rice has directed the State Department to waive the requirement for American citizens departing Lebanon to reimburse the United States Government for their travel costs. We want to do everything we can to facilitate the departure of American citizens from Lebanon. Today’s step removes one potential worry for our citizens at this difficult time.

2006/695
Released on July 18, 2006

Plus there has been warning about going to Lebanon for a number of years now.

[Tippster]

Sorry, that announcement was made after I got off work yesterday and I wasn't aware of it 'til now. Glad the uproar worked. Sometimes the media does its job.

There are "warnings" about going to Israel (and Argentina, Greece, Turkey, Egypt, South Africa, ...ad nauseam) as well - that doesn't mean you can't go there and NOT expect your government to help you get out when a fucking WAR breaks out. Lebanon wasn't exactly Rwanda.

[MeatPuppet]

Plus there has been warning about going to Lebanon for a number of years now.

I'm not sure where I come down on this issue. My first thought is that this kind of thing is part of why we pay taxes. At the same time if we travel someplace that the State Department advises against should we expect evacuation for free? I don't know.

Some resorts charge for out-of-bounds rescue, how is this different?

[Tuckerman]

Sorry, that announcement was made after I got off work yesterday and I wasn't aware of it 'til now. Glad the uproar worked. Sometimes the media does its job.

Ok that's funny.

[MeatPuppet]

Glad the uproar worked. Sometimes the media does its job.

This is very interesting. I always thought it was the job of the media to report the news, not influence events. Do you see the role of the media as more than simple reporting what is happening?

[cj001f]

I'm not sure where I come down on this issue. My first thought is that this kind of thing is part of why we pay taxes. At the same time if we travel someplace that the State Department advises against should we expect evacuation for free? I don't know.

Some resorts charge for out-of-bounds rescue, how is this different?

Well, the resorts clearly provide and mark out of bounds.

Reading the current State Department Travel Warning to Lebanon
http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_p...w/tw_2123.html
Would you know people are being evacuated? The information they provide is neither the most current nor useful.

[Tippster]

This is very interesting. I always thought it was the job of the media to report the news, not influence events. Do you see the role of the media as more than simple reporting what is happening?

We reported what was happening and what the new policy was. This caused many folks to either voice their opinions on-line, in talk shows, via phone, whatever. Yes, I call that the role of the media - informing the public.

Edit: the Uproar I referred to wasn't the media's, but the population's. Also, asking a critical question isn't "influencing events."

[BLOOD SWEAT STEEL]

This is very interesting. I always thought it was the job of the media to report the news, not influence events. Do you see the role of the media as more than simple reporting what is happening?

......But of course. They are a coequal branch of government, you know. Just ask them.

[Tuckerman]

Would you know people are being evacuated? The information they provide is neither the most current nor useful.

I think thats what "authorized departure status" is saying. Departure as in get the fuck out.

This Travel Warning is being updated to alert American citizens that, due to ongoing security concerns in Lebanon, the U.S. Embassy has been granted authorized departure status.

[cj001f]

I think thats what "authorized departure status" is saying. Departure as in get the fuck out.

That's for embassy personnel & families of personnel. Here's what they say for everyone else:

American citizens are urged to evaluate their personal security posture and consider departing in light of the current situation in Lebanon.

It's also dated 7/13 .....

[Tippster]

Exactly - a week ago Lebanon was considered a safe place, especially Beirut - arguably the most Western-friendly city in the Arab World.

[MeatPuppet]

Well, the resorts clearly provide and mark out of bounds.

Reading the current State Department Travel Warning to Lebanon
http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_p...w/tw_2123.html
Would you know people are being evacuated? The information they provide is neither the most current nor useful.

Since 1973, Lebanon has been in a state of war with Israel.

Recent events in Lebanon underscore the need for caution and sound personal security precautions.

Americans have been the targets of numerous terrorist attacks in Lebanon in the past. The perpetrators of many of these attacks are still present and retain the ability to act.

---

Call me crazy, but this makes it pretty clear that Lebanon isn't exactly Club Med.

You are right about the day to day events not being on the State Department web site, but that's not really their role.

I'm just thinking out loud. I can see both sides of this issue and I think both sides can make a good argument. On the one hand, I don't think people should be complaining that the government might charge them a couple of hundred dollars to save the life of them and their family. At the same time, why are we paying taxes if not to take care of our citizens?

I am glad they decided to waive the "rescue fee" in this case. So I guess that tells me what I really think about the issue.

[powder11]

Exactly - a week ago Lebanon was considered a safe place, especially Beirut - arguably the most Western-friendly city in the Arab World.

how can anyone consider a country harboring terrorists who fire rockets at another country who always has their finger on the trigger "a safe place"?

[MeatPuppet]

We reported what was happening and what the new policy was. This caused many folks to either voice their opinions on-line, in talk shows, via phone, whatever. Yes, I call that the role of the media - informing the public.

Edit: the Uproar I referred to wasn't the media's, but the population's. Also, asking a critical question isn't "influencing events."

That makes sense. I think you are the only person I have any contact with who is actually a part of the media. Thanks for helping me understand.

[Tuckerman]

That's for embassy personnel & families of personnel. Here's what they say for everyone else:

American citizens are urged to evaluate their personal security posture and consider departing in light of the current situation in Lebanon.

It's also dated 7/13 .....

I still read that as get the fuck out.

[Tuckerman]

We reported what was happening and what the new policy was. This caused many folks to either voice their opinions on-line, in talk shows, via phone, whatever. Yes, I call that the role of the media - informing the public.

Not to be confused with stirring shit up. I know where your coming from it's cool.

[DaveTV]

Is this thread about the conflict itself, or evacuating Americans..?

[cj001f]

You are right about the day to day events not being on the State Department web site, but that's not really their role.

That's somewhat true, but then they should eliminate this:

This information is current as of today, Wed Jul 19 2006 08:57:32 GMT-0700 (Pacific Daylight Time).

from the top of each Consular Information Sheet. It's particularly curious because their Israel/WB/GS travel warning, published today, advises

American citizens in the Gaza Strip should depart immediately

i.e. get the fuck out. definitely different from "consider departing"

The India CIS makes no mention of the Bombay bombs:
http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_p.../cis_1139.html
and there are other 'errors'.

So many in timing/facts/structure I'm not sure how the government can make people sign a blank check to get out, when the government can't even communicate out how dangerous it is in the first place.

[Buster Highmen]

Is this thread about the conflict itself, or evacuating Americans..?

The stuff about evacuating Americans is over in the potty thread.