Is it World War III

[skideeppow]

It's about time we just tell isareal to deal with it. Why should we keep supporting them, when they are constantly picking fights and pissing off the rest of the mid east.

Yeah, they were picking fights, unilaterally pulling out of Gaza 11 months ago and doing the same in Lebanon in 1999 in accordance with UN Res 242 and 338. What do they get in return, constant incursions into Israel proper, katusha and quassam rocket attacks in the north and south.
Hamas, Hezbullah have shown that they have no intention in living peacefully with a Jewish State next to them.
The IDF is going to open a world of hurt in Lebanon.

[ninjabirdman]

please dont qoute me and think I agree with you. I was being sarcastic you on the other hand seem to be an idiot.

aka -
i guess i wasn't being sarcastic, but i certainly wasn't being serious. mostly just ranting out of frustration. just as it seemed like some sort of compromise might be in the works . . . israel de-occupying gaza and all . . . the shit hits the fan in a big way. it seems that both sides are so into waving their dicks around that neither is actually interested in a peaceful solution.

i personally think that we shouldn't be involved at all and should let the middle east sort itself out . . . partly because i think you're right, the situation is too complex for outsiders to be able to broker a decision. but even if the US govt disengages from the region, it will still be frustrating to watch them keep killing each other.

anyway, sorry i offended you. you certainly shouldn't read my remarks as realistically advocating nuclear genocide.

[skieurmalade]

ok first of all israel owns as much of america as china does (unsourced but probably close to accurate) so there is little chance of us ever being in a situation where abandonment is even an option.

The Cold War was certainly an angry conversation between two hemispheres that had the potential for total annihilation, but it certainly was hardly lethal to merit WW status

I clicked on WWIII, but I was pissed about it because it was clear as day that WWIII started when people as arrogant as some of those on this very thread were supporting the patriot act and accepting racism as a horrifically unified nation. Yessir Fear is in the blood and soul of damn near everyone by this point and that never comes out of a nice vibratory orifice. Two sides of nuclear idiots fighting because they like the poetic pronunciation of their particular name for the same biblical god, to paraphrase Joseph Campbell.

[Archie]

The Israelis blaming the current Lebanese government for the acts Hezbollah would be like the US blaming Germany for 9/11.

[Blurred]

Israel pulled out, and the douchebag terrorists saw it as a sign of weakness and attacked. That's how those fuckers think. I'm glad we're in Iraq. Fuck the terrorists, you have to bring the fight to them. It's time to carpet bomb all of those camel-jockies.

[Blurred]

The UN won't do any more than it's ever done--nothing.

As for bombing the whole area, i think it's a great idea--right after we nuke nyc and DC for starting that shit with osama. Some brilliant minds at work tonight.

You should just go over there, and talk it out with the terrorists. When they behead you and come after your family because you're a weak American, I'll say I told you so as your head rolls into the sea.

[CantDog]

It could be the way this Isreal/Hamas fight is going on. Now Syria is talking tough. Isreal is in Lebanon now with airstrikes. Isreal has mobilized all of their reserve forces.

This could blow up huge.

I really hope our current military personnel can spell Israel correctly.

[RootSkier]

These threads always bring out the best the maggots have to offer.

[ski_adk]

There are people in the Middle East who do not want Israel nor America over there. They don't care about borders, they don't care about established government bodies. They act regradless of "official" politics. They live according to boundries that no longer exist. And it is these "terrorists'" aim to drag the countries of the Middle East, and America and with any "luck" any other members of the nuclear club into all-out war. They are not afraid to die -- they are 100% dedicated to the death of America and the West.

And the West is being played like a bunch of absolute fools. By retaliating across international borders, we are playing directly into their trap. Their single goal is to bring about the death of Israel and the West. Yet, they can't do it themselves, they need other means. What could be better than dividing the world into "good" and "evil" sides, cause a little trouble here and there and next thing you know, they've mobilized the alliances and all Hell proceeds to break loose. I mean, isn't this similar to how WW1 started?

[rideit]

Hey Blurred, as a complete, non current aside, what is your heritage?

[skieurmalade]

i really hope nobody's serious at all about nuking any brothers from other mothers and have a serious problem ever respecting anybody who even jokes about spilling so much blood of the innocent. I wonder what will happen when the silent corporate invaders of the east finally bring in their air force and these people see missiles coming toward their grimacing face, glowing in the light of their computer. will they realize that our fall was a child of this reckless offensive upon the planet with a flagrant disregard for education or healthcare? Doubtful.

[Plakespear]

[boxing announcer guy]LAAAAIDEEEES AND GENTELEMEN!!! Welcome to the TGR forums and the first big flame war of the summer. In the Red corner, out of Summit County, Colorado, we have Blurred "Hugeairdog" Elevens. And in the Blue corner, representing the Upper East Side of Manhattan Island, Dexter "Downhill" Rutecki. This fight is scheduled to last fifteen rounds, or whenever it starts to snow again. LET'S GET REEEAAAADYYYY TO RRRRUUUUUMMMMBLLLLLEEE!!!!!! [/boxing announcer guy]

WHO ELSE IS MAKING POPCORN?

[mookie blaylock]

sorry this is a long cut and paste but a good read


WW III Libretto

Unlike all previous wars in history, the present world war, which I have labeled the "R&R War" (Religion and Resources" is not being fought along any single particular front, nor is it being fought in the rapid-succession/Hollywood action sequencing that has characterized previous wars. Where World War II was easy to follow - as line of infantry could be drawn on maps - the present new world war is being fought more at a global/tribal/affinity group level. Because there is no clear-cut single point where "victory" could be claimed by one side or the other, the whole process sort of mushes along ion relatively slow motion. There's no cry of "Next stop Tokyo!" or "All the way to Berlin!" In fact, who is fighting the way is a little unclear, unless you belong to one of the affinity groups.



The Libretto

So just what is the conflict and why?

*

George Bush, and members of CONgress who ignore it, and perhaps led astray by corporate elitists, seem to have signed on to the idea of quietly selling America out to a new corporate-elite-dominated North American Union - which White House infiltrators are pressing forward with as quickly as possible. Ignored by the mainstream and only showing up on places like Lou Dobbs and Human Events Online, the underlying theme here is to blend America (the sovereign Constitutional country) into some kind of subordinate to an elite controlled extra-political union of Canada, Mexico and what used to be the US. As documented in Jerome Corsi's excellent reporting, the latest installment of which was posted yesterday, it seems clear that the elites of North America are determined to build their own power grab just as the EU leadership usurped much of the sovereignty of European countries with the EU. Join or lose trade is the leverage. And the "arms" are largely economic in nature with plans for the CANAMEX highway to bring Mexican built goods to the US and further reduce American independence.
*

The Mexican invasion of the US, by workers unable to find real work in their own country has continued virtually unabated while patriotic efforts of groups like the Minutemen are ridiculed by the elites, they at least manage to keep a public focus on the bigger game. As we reported yesterday, a few states like Colorado are getting up some backbone, but much (if not all) of the immigration discussion is electioneering hyperbole, destined to fade into a quiet acceptance of a continued invasion as soon as the US fall elections are over. Of course, the people of Mexico are now getting a taste of Florida politics, with charges (seemingly documented) that the elections were rigged. It seems voting in many countries is turning into a meaningless gesture and governments now run people, instead of the other way around.
*

Then we have the necons, perhaps better described as "the folks that brought you the Iraq War." While SECDEF Don Rumsfeld is off visiting Iraq today, there are reports that the US ambassador to Iraq has given the government 6-months to quell what is more a civil war between Sunni and Siite religious groups than most anything else. Of course, if you're well studied on the Iraq situation, you know that the US has plans for 14 "enduring bases" in the country. It doesn't take a genius to figure out those bases are about protecting oil flows. Meantime, a few neocons have bailed out of government jobs, such as Paul Wolfowitz who is now heading up the World Bank rather than see through the war he was instrumental in promoting. Wolfowitz is now off talking about aid to Africa. The line between corporate elitists blurs conveniently and neatly in Africa. The cry for "humanitarian aid to lift people up" thinly masks the West's/Corporate's need for more cheap labor as India and Chinese incomes have grown, and there are resource rich countries like Liberia and Nigeria - again it's oil.
*

Militant Jihadists are positioned in American media as opposing the the neocon agenda. And MSM seems to have managed to create the image of an effective asymmetric warfare group. It all started with 9/11. While credited with the 9/11 events, there's a fair bit of evidence (including WTC-7 falling down) that suggests planted explosives as much (or more) than planes were involved and that implies some agency helping the terrorists. Recent polls show that 42% of Americans think the whole story isn't out on 9/11, and we don't expect it any time in the near future because effective study groups such as "Scholars for 9/11 Truth" are under personal attack/threats for their work. The disclosures that Toronto and Miami "terrorist arrests" are centered around government informants/agents/provocateurs, is troubling. Still, the evidence abounds that militant Jihadists have a global agenda, as evidenced by the bombings in Spain and yesterday's killing of 180+ in India. No question about it, militant Islam is is a huge global problem.
*

Angry locals are another series of groups to be considered. The Palestinians, who until 1947 or so, were the sole occupants of what is now Israel, are fighting almost daily about what some have suggested appears as a Middle East version of apartheid. Israel's invasion of the Gaza continues with air strikes today..And if the Gaza fighting isn't enough, Israel today invaded Lebanon after what Prime Minister Olmert called a "war-like" Hezbollah attack. The angry locals theme is not limited to the Middle East, however. We find aspects of it playing out in resource rich countries -Nigeria, Liberia, Bolivia, and so forth.
*

The Drug Lords are perhaps one more group to be considered. While there has been a fair amount written about narco-money and how it moves both the investment world and politics. As one online article notes, the US movement into Afghanistan starting in about 1980 was about money and drugs. "Before 1980, Afghanistan produced 0% of the world's opium. But then the CIA moved in, and by 1986 they were producing 40% of the world's heroin supply. By 1999, they were churning out 3,200 TONS of heroin a year ­ nearly 80% of the total market supply. But then something unexpected happened. The Taliban rose to power, and by 2000 they had destroyed nearly all of the opium fields. Production dropped from 3,000+ tons to only 185 tons, a 94% reduction!" So naturally, the US is opposing the Taliban (with links to the militant Jihadists, of course). How else are the cloak-and-dagger crowd going to fund black ops?
*

Global Banksters: This faction is off on its own and we cover their efforts to paper everything over till "It's all good" every day. And, no doubt, the market will rally through the end of the month. Thanks, boyz!

So there you have it, a quick thumbnail sketch of the groups that are fighting World War III. Picture this as a board game where the board is the whole world, and the objective is to gain as much power/money/converts as you can for your side. If you're a neocon, that means getting the American conservatives riled up (but don't mention throwing out our beloved Constitution!). If you're a Jihadist, it means selling an anti-corporate theme to low income peoples worldwide, who are having their lands stolen and resources plundered by (go look in a mirror - it's our consumer proxies at work). If you're a drug lord, it means promoting MS-13 and the gang warfare in Los Angeles and the guns and heavy weapons that go with that, shading of course into the Mexico Invasion groups because there's a sort of common interest co-dependent relationship along the US border.



One in a while, we see a headline that puts the global nature of the battles into stark relief: Israel's invasion of Gaza/Lebanon and the train bombings in India. A Minutemen demonstration here, a drug gunfight there. But for the most part, it's a chaotic mess as first glance. The best way to get a sense of it is to get six or seven balls of different color clay, each the size of a golf ball. Now, start mashing them together in your hands. After a few minutes of mashing, you'll have a fine approximation of how the world is working. Label each color for one of the factions above, and then draw a map on the surface of this semi-mixed gob of clay. That's how WWIII looks. Which is all neither good nor bad, it's just what is.



Unless, of course, you take the train in Mumbai, live in Gaza or Lebanon, have kids in L.A., or are one of 4 remaining US machinists.
http://urbansurvival.com/week.htm

[Tippster]

Shit, there are people here who don't want us in the Middle East. I'm one of them - I for one do not believe in the neo-con theory or pre-emptive attack. There were no "terrorists" in Iraq prior to our invasion - at least none that had done the US any harm nor posed a clear and present danger. There certainly are now.

The "Islamo-Fascists" want two things: No Israel - or, failing that - at the very least a true Palestinian State, and no US meddling, especially on their holy ground.

A very large step toward the latter was taken when we pulled out of Saudi Arabia. Yes that's where most of our troops in the Gulf were stationed (think Khobar.) No, we didn't leave on our own - the King asked us to GTFO to prevent a Civil War in his country. If you don't think that was a capitulation toward the Wahabbis (fundamentalists who basically started this whole shitstorm) then you're fooling yourself. There is a very good reason why Prince Bandar has no time for his casita in Aspen.

What they (the Arab factions) don't get is that Israel isn't going anywhere... because there is nowhere for them to go. The hatred of that state by the arab diaspora is understandable. How would we feel if China and Russia decided to give Florida back to the Seminoles? The only peaceful solution is for them to accept Israel's right to exist, which Abbas and his Fatah faction had, and work towards an autonomous Palestinian State. The 2 State Solution was WORKING, unfortunately there were still some very powerful hardliners (on both sides) whose vested interest lies in maintaining the struggle. Hamas becomes obsolete if peace breaks out. So does Hezbollah (no, they aren't the same - one is Palestinian, the other Lebanese) especially with the new Lebanese Government who is much less under the Syrian control than in the past.

The reason why this latest flare up will fizzle IMHO is due to the huge discrepancy in firepower. Hezbollah has moved against Israel, not Lebanon/Syria/etc. There might be tacit approval by many in those governments, but declaring open war State vs. State against Israel ain't gonna happen when they have all the toys and the Arabs have left over Scuds.

[Blurred]

i really hope nobody's serious at all about nuking any brothers from other mothers and have a serious problem ever respecting anybody who even jokes about spilling so much blood of the innocent. I wonder what will happen when the silent corporate invaders of the east finally bring in their air force and these people see missiles coming toward their grimacing face, glowing in the light of their computer. will they realize that our fall was a child of this reckless offensive upon the planet with a flagrant disregard for education or healthcare? Doubtful.

You should join Dexter in the maggot/terrorist peace talks. I bet you two could find a cheap flight over there to try out your politics. I'd suggest a one-way ticket to save some $.

[frozenwater]

wow blurred. Might want to cut the racial slurs, not really helping your arguement or your less than skyrocketing popularity.

[Blurred]

wow blurred. Might want to cut the racial slurs, not really helping your arguement or your less than skyrocketing popularity.

Calling someone a camel-jockey isn't a racial slur. It's a generalization of the douchebags that want you and I dead at all costs. If you want to speak kindly of them, so be it. Don't ask me to play that game.

Don't you think it's a little rediculous that the politically correct on this board tippy-toe around hurting "their" feelings while at the same time they're trying to kill us?

Wow. Let the pussification of the USA mentality continue until we feel so guilty for being us that we nuke ourselves.

[bklyn]

[rideit]

And once again, politely, what is your heritage?

[AKA]

Calling someone a camel-jockey isn't a racial slur. It's a generalization of the douchebags that want you and I dead at all costs. If you want to speak kindly of them, so be it. Don't ask me to play that game.

Don't you think it's a little rediculous that the politically correct on this board tippy-toe around hurting "their" feelings while at the same time they're trying to kill us?

Wow.

I agree 100% that "camel-Jockey" isn't a racial slur, its an ethnic slur you stupid asshole.

[RootSkier]

And still, Blurred's sig includes a quote my MLK. Irony of the absolute highest order - only possible if you are a complete and total douche nozzle.

edit: not that there's anything wrong with that.

[iceman]

Check out the Oriana Fallaci (remember her? prolly not, most of you) piece in the New Yorker from about a month ago. That woman has balls and says what needs saying imo. A little over the top...sure. But she's trying to jumpstart something and everybody knows (or they should know) that it takes more amps to start something than it does to keep it going.

[Blurred]

Ok. We've established that Blurred hates terrorists and even calls them names. You can call me an asshole, but don't you dare call me a camel-jockey. That's just evil.

[iceman]

And once again, politely, what is your heritage?

Amurrican, duh.

[Superstar Punani]

CHEMICAL WARFARE!
CHEMICAL WARFARE!
CHEMICAL WARFARE! WARFARE! WARFARE!

CHEMICAL WARFARE!
CHEMICAL WARFARE!
CHEMICAL WARFARE! WARFARE! WARFARE!