Gimped, need moral support

[El Chupacabra]

Spats -- hang in there man, we're all here for you. I'll ask Mrs. C. if she's got any info on possible explanations (she's an occupational therapist, might be of help).

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

[erica_z]

damn, lunch-buddy.

I'll keep you in my thoughts.

+++++

[Vets]

Positive vibes sent your way.
I hope that you find an alternative treatment that works for you.

[Spats]

You got it after an allergic reaction... do you have a fever? (Rheumatic fever? A long shot.)

The original problem (way back, early in the year) was malaise and a serious chest rash, which got diagnosed as scarlet fever. I took amoxicillin and that cleared up, but I got this weird reaction on my hands which I didn't think much of until later (the arthritis didn't develop for at least a couple months) because everything else felt so much better.

The doctors didn't think it was rheumatic fever because my temperature has since been normal, the onset was somewhat insidious, and there was no swelling -- but we tried amoxicillin anyway (it's cheap). Well, I was starting to perhaps recover a little bit by that time, but the amoxicillin made things much worse instantly. Within a day and a half it was obvious that I was having a severe allergic reaction and the arthritis kicked up hard, so I stopped and told my doctor. Anyway, the ASO titer isn't consistent with a very recent strep infection, though it is consistent with having an infection early in the year.

The reason we don't think it's rheumatoid arthritis is because there is no swelling, the pattern of joint involvement is wrong, and the RF test came back negative.

Basically what I have looks like osteoarthritis, but the onset has been relatively sudden, and there is redness on the joints that comes and goes (but no swelling). From what I can tell, osteoarthritis is damage that you gradually do over years and years -- it's not a disease you catch or something you suddenly have.

[Plakespear]

Well, I'm not a doctor, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express once. And I can assure you that it is most certainly not leprosy.

[bklyn]

The original problem (way back, early in the year) was malaise and a serious chest rash, which got diagnosed as scarlet fever. I took amoxicillin and that cleared up, but I got this weird reaction on my hands which I didn't think much of until later (the arthritis didn't develop for at least a couple months) because everything else felt so much better.

The doctors didn't think it was rheumatic fever because my temperature has since been normal, the onset was somewhat insidious, and there was no swelling -- but we tried amoxicillin anyway (it's cheap). Well, I was starting to perhaps recover a little bit by that time, but the amoxicillin made things much worse instantly. Within a day and a half it was obvious that I was having a severe allergic reaction and the arthritis kicked up hard, so I stopped and told my doctor. Anyway, the ASO titer isn't consistent with a very recent strep infection, though it is consistent with having an infection early in the year.

The reason we don't think it's rheumatoid arthritis is because there is no swelling, the pattern of joint involvement is wrong, and the RF test came back negative.

Basically what I have looks like osteoarthritis, but the onset has been relatively sudden, and there is redness on the joints that comes and goes (but no swelling). From what I can tell, osteoarthritis is damage that you gradually do over years and years -- it's not a disease you catch or something you suddenly have.

My 4yo nephew came down with a bad case of strep but we didn't know it. No other symptoms initially, but a fast onset of joint pain, to the point where he couldn't walk. Seems joint pain is also a side effect of some bacterial infections. Were they all ruled out for you?

You still have strep. You need an antibiotic that works for you and probably need a long course of it. My nephew has been on it for about 2 months.

disclaimer - I'm not a doctor... but I know how to take care of a man.

[hutash]

If you were a dog I would f*ck the diagnosis and put you on doxicycline and prednisone. Human docs spend way too much time and money running tests that may or may not give any answers, and those answers are always questionable. My wife had a simialar problem years ago, and got better desite the MD's, but they stuck a freaking million needles in her to come up with nothing. I a not against diagnostics, I use them all the time, but sometimes you just have to use your medical training, something a lot of MDs don't do anymore.

If you go with the glucosamine/chondrotin route use Cosamine or Puritan's Pride. They are what they say they are, a lot of the others are crap.

Keep up the low impact activies to keep your joints lubed, swimming is best.

Good luck

[The Dad]

I've cut and pasted your notes and sent them to my Gods of Healing. I'll let you know if they have any ideas, either as to what it might be or for specialist referrals.

In the meantime, +++++++++++++ vibes.

[Trackhead]

Human docs spend way too much time and money running tests that may or may not give any answers, and those answers are always questionable.

You can thank a litigous society for that.

And the fact that most canines don't have, or hire lawyers.

[TWINS]

I`m so sorry to hear this.I hope you find a answer soon.I`m praying that Tracy is right about the strep diagnosis.Thoughts and prayers towards a speedy recovery.We need the mowhawk out on the slopes this coming year.

[Walter Sobchak]

Wow man, wishing you the best!! Given the earlier scarlet fever diagnosis, isn't is possible you're having a weird, late-onset case of rheumatic fever, maybe coupled with some wacky autoimmune response? Have you discussed with your doctor even a short oral course of prednisone? I know of people who suffered strange, undiagnosed, potential autoimmune disorders and were saved by prednisone. But whatever it is, whatever you need to do, beat it like it owes you money!!!

[Spats]

Do you have psoriasis?

No psoriasis or family history thereof, so psoriatic arthritis is unlikely.

My ANA is negative, which makes lupus, rheumatoid arthritis, scleroderma, MCTD/UCTD, and other associated syndromes unlikely. (RF is low too.)

My sed rate is low, which implies that there isn't any major systemic inflammation going on.

I haven't been getting canker sores, so Behcet's is unlikely.

The lack of swelling is what's confusing: almost everything arthritic is supposed to involve some sort of swelling along with the pain.

Also my joints don't hurt more or less when I (or the doctor) touch or squeeze them: mostly the pain is just there all the time. A few of the joints (particularly the knees) hurt more when I put weight on them, but with the fingers it doesn't seem to matter much. The only physical sign is redness, which comes and goes.

I'm already taking glucosamine/chondroitin, MSM, and omega-3s, and trying to eat as much fresh fruit and produce as I can.

Thanks for the advice and support, everyone. Since I can't go out and ski or ride bikes with my friends, your words and thoughts do help.

[Spats]

Have you discussed with your doctor even a short oral course of prednisone?

The doc gave me a week-long one recently. It didn't clear everything up but it did help. Of course I slept all day, too, but if that's what I have to do I'll do it. I see him again next week.

[TWINS]

I`m hoping you find out ASAP what the heck is going on .And recoup ASAP.Thoughts and some special prayers will be sent to you .We need the" Extreme Skiing MoHawk Man" on the slopes next year

[TWINS]

Sorry about the double now triple post.I`m on my wifes computer today and can`t figure the damm thing out! Patty said get well soon.I would never have skied to the Paranoids at Mammy if it wasn`t for your enthusiasm.You were definitely full of stoke on that trip.What a pleasure I had getting to ski with you.Get well!

[Samwich]

a guy I know who is in his 60s had arthritis from the age of 40 or so. He used to be a climber, and the arthritis was primarily in his hands, but also in his knees and shoulders. He bought a juicer and made fresh fruit/veggie juice 3 or 4 times a day, and stopped drinking coffee entirely. He always put ginger in his juice, but other than that the ingredients varied. He also made sure to drink plenty of water (8 12oz. glasses per day) and take glucosamine. Also, Consumer Digest did a report on Glucosamine and found that the most effective stuff is Kirkland Signature (CostCo brand).

Also, stretching helps. Stay limber. Good luck.

[G]

Wow, that sounds like quite a bummer. I'll keep my fingers crossed for you.

If I were you, I'd at least start with massive doses of MSM, Glucosamine, chondroitin and beer.

luck.

[Ubersheist]

Jeez... Sorry to hear that... Best of luck, and keep us informed!

[The Dad]

Rash, arthritis, and negativerheumatoid factor suggests something called Still's Disease to me.

See attached.

I'd have sent this as a PM, but I haven't figured out how to attach docs to them.

[hop]

Positive vibes man...

[Superstar Punani]

Sorry to hear about that Spats. I hope it's nothing too serious.

[stoicchris]

good luck spats.

[spindrift]

OK, I know I'm gonna get the reputation as the local Lyme nut, but when I hear words like rash, arthritis, lethargy, etc., etc. in the context of an outdoorsy person my immediate reaction is to suspect Lyme or one of its close cousins. Even with a negative test, here are a few things to consider.

1) The ELISA test which is frequently used to detect Lyme (and may well be what you got) is not exactly a model of precision. If you got an ELISA test, you may want to google "elisa lyme" and do some reading. A negative test result may not mean much. If you got a different test, read up on that one. Make sure you understand what is going on.

2) Google "STARI" (Southern tick associated rash illness) and check up on it. Super abridged version - think of it as Lyme, but carried by some different ticks and not detectable by std Lyme tests. Same EM rash, etc... Start with http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/dvbid/stari/index.htm Depending on where you've been, you could have crossed paths with this Lyme relative/variant. Note that the ranges of both Lyme and STARI are almost certainly far wider than most maps would lead you to believe.

3) Speaking of rashes, google "erythema migrans". Read a ton of what you find. And also look at many, many pics (hit the images link). See if it reminds you of your chest rash.

One of the big problems with Lyme is that the typical blood tests are relatively hit and miss. A good diagnosis is often a result of the confluence of symptoms presenting themselves (if they do) and those symptoms being noticed at a lucky time.

Do not let a single negative blood test convince you that Lyme is not in play. Note that I'm not saying all mystery diseases are Lyme ---- just that you should not let the possibility of Lyme be dismissed too quickly. Make sure your docs are either very familiar with this stuff or that they consult with national level folks who know the issues well. With respect to Lyme, it is not enough for your docs to spend a few minutes looking up what test to order and then relying on blind faith faith in a yes/no result. You have a right to demand more from your docs. You may already be getting it, or you may need to be tenacious and push the issue. Make sure they are really on top of Lyme and its relatives before they take it/them off the list of suspects.

all the ritual +vibes...

[Spats]

I'd have sent this as a PM, but I haven't figured out how to attach docs to them.

Thanks for the pointer. I'll have to find the original blood panel that has some of those tests on it. Still's seems unlikely, since I don't recall ever having or measuring a fever that high (let alone a recurring one) but it's worth investigating.

spindrift: Thanks for the info on Lyme testing. It seems like the first 10-day course of amoxicillin ought to have cleaned it out if it were present, but I'll look into it some more.

[Pow4Brains]

++++++Vibes++++++

Hang in there mang, as quickly as this came on it has to be something they’ll figure out.