anyone skiied lp's AND squads?

[WWCD]

bwwakk bwakkk bwwwaaakk bwak bwak

Good, but a subtle

meow...

works much better.

[upallnight]

40-50lbs of pack??????......I call bullshit unless he is out in the backcountry for multiple days at a time. Even then thats a whole hell of a lot of weight. I went backpacking for 8 days over labor day and neither my pack or my buddies pack crossed the 55lb mark. We saw people out there for as long as we were who were only carrying 35lbs.


-aaron

call bullshit all you want, aaron, but realize that you are wrong.

the gentlemans in question is an avalanche professional and long time professional guide carrying complete personal gear, avy gear, communications gear, and both first aid and survival gear.

daily.

in alaska.

it's easy to go light. he can't beacuse of who and what he is responsible for.

the thread's not about the minimum weight one can carry for a trip in the mountains. (hell, a friend was just out for 10 days with a pack under 25# -- including the pack) -- it's about someone who is a super-solid skier with tons of experience and coming in fully-loaded at over 200# testifying that the 189/194 squads have to be broken to be a reasonable ski....even in "big mountains".

you should be more likely to call bullshit on people who claim these (189/194) ski well at the resort in any type of "terrain".

these are intended for a very small set of skiers who truly need them...and these posts are about getting people to view their size/ability/needs honestly as if they make a decision that the board usually condones ("buy the biggest size, dude"), they'll get f$#@ed and left holding the bag.

[gh444]

BCA Tracker including battery and strap-12.8oz
BCA Chugach Pro Shovel-38 oz
SR3 Probe-11oz
ALP55 3900cuin pack- 53oz
skins for fat skis-32oz
skin glue-4oz
heaviest first aid kit i could find-4lbs
Iridium Sat Phone 13.2oz +6oz for additional battery
gps watch unit-4oz
map-4oz
Canon Rebel XTI 19.6oz including battery+700grams (24.7oz) for two large lenses
Climbing harness 12.3oz
420 kit 1oz
Ice Axe-420g (14.8oz)
Matches +waterproof case-.8oz
Water-
5 cliff bars-5x7.4oz
10 Energy shots-11 oz
3space blankets-12oz
avalung-10oz
Spyderco adventura knife-3.8oz
30 meters of CLimbing rope-65g per meter =1950 grams (68oz)
4 beeners-60grams per 240grams (8.4oz)
figure 8-100g (3.5oz)


all of that adds up to 29.3 lbs......what am i missing? and wouldn't you say that alot of this is overkill? thats basically the biggest and heaviest stuff i could find.....for good measure, lets add in a sleeping bag and a three person tent. 1.6lbs and 6lbs respectively. then a stove and some fuel 14oz and 8oz. wow we still arent to forty pounds. so lets throw in some additional (non-emergency) food and water 3lbs of each and maybe an extra set of boots and clean socks and a change of clothes and a small chair for good measure.....whew now we are at 50lbs.....congrats.....only problem is now you can't ski cause thats a shit ton of weight!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

-aaron

p.s. I never know what i'm talking about, ever.......

[upallnight]

aaron, i know you're trying to make a point, so i'll cut you some slack.

i looked at your list pretty quick and saw a bunch of stuff missing, like additional climbing rope (30m won't cut it), a radio to actually communicate with the helo & extra batteries, etc.

i know you're trying to be nitpicky here (and the point of whether a pack is 40 or 50# is confusing the argument as it's really about the squads not flexing even under 200# of skier-weight), but if you had to go into the field and do primary support for 10 people and secondary support for many more, you might re-think your questioning.

this stuff's not made up. if and when you ever set foot in a heli, you and your gear will be weighed for fuel/load purposes. you can see what the weight of the gear is, and maybe you'll realize that the people who have the whole operation on their shoulders carry more than you think.

and just because you can't ski for shit with a 30- or 50-pound pack, doesn't mean that others can't...especially when they do it 200+ days per year, for 30 years.

which should give you some respect for those that do.

that's my last post on the subject. i'll agree to disagree with you, but i'll continue to believe what i've seen and felt first-hand.

(p.s. not sure why you added the 'i never know what i'm talking about...ever' bit, but all we're saying here is you don't realize what some people carry, and you don't realize what they're skiing with. that's all. whether or not you're wrong in all other aspects of your life is a topic for another thread.)

[PlayHarder]

Nice list for an average skier headed out on a day trip, g_h.

[gh444]

you just throw up random and inaccurate info on every fickin post you make. the recent post you made about climbing 4500' with 80lbs on your back over six miles and doing it in 3 hours, even though you admit you cant yet run a half mile, pure crap. your full of shit on just about every occasion.

-aaron

[upallnight]

Nice list for an average skier headed out on a day trip, g_h.

admit you cant yet run a half mile, pure crap. your full of shit on just about every occasion.

-aaron[/QUOTE]
playharder: what g_h is responding to is not what 'the average skier' takes on a day trip. there's no denying that the average skier takes nothing.

my original point is getting lost. namely, a person i know and trust who skis the squads (and whose daily weight, with pack, is well over 200#) has an honest assessment of the flex from extensive field use that may be valuable for some folks who are being realistic and debating getting the squads in a 189 or 194.

the issue got muddled when g_h tried to pick apart the breakdown of skier weight vs pack weight -- had i not broken it out we would have stayed on-topic or closer to it. that's my fault.

[upallnight]

you just throw up random and inaccurate info on every fickin post you make. the recent post you made about climbing 4500' with 80lbs on your back over six miles and doing it in 3 hours, even though you admit you cant yet run a half mile, pure crap. your full of shit on just about every occasion.

-aaron

aaron: you're certainly welcome to have any opinion of me that you like, but attempting to prove that things i'm saying are wrong by misquoting me from another thread doesn't serve your case.

at least quote what i've actually said. taking my words out of context, misquoting them, and using them for your own purpose in this thread is an attempt to make me look bad, but you've only made yourself look foolish.

what you got wrong was that one month ago (you do look at dates of posts, right?), i said "running anything longer than 1/4 mile is tough on the (knee) joint, but i think that's simply because i have to break through a soreness barrier" in this thread.

i also talk about how rapid the rate of progress has been, and if you follow things closely, i don't have to tell you about how hard i work to rehab my knee.

but you conveniently left that stuff out.

just because there is stuff you can't do (at 240#) doesn't mean it can't be done. things around here are a little different than at mammoth.

if you pay attention, my posts are based on fact and first-hand experience; if they're not, i clearly state where i got the information from (or where my opinion is coming from). sorry if you can't handle that.

thanks for saying you care --in your own special way.

[PlayHarder]

[QUOTE=upallnight]playharder: what g_h is responding to is not what 'the average skier' takes on a day trip. QUOTE]

Meh, no further off the mark than his implication that you're full of shit and your input should be ignored.

[Professor]

and just because you can't ski for shit with a 30- or 50-pound pack, doesn't mean that others can't...especially when they do it 200+ days per year, for 30 years.

which should give you some respect for those that do.

I have utmost respect for people that work in the field. However, Squads are not designed for that. They are designed based on the Rossi Team skis that are for people that dont wear a BIG pack. The people that should be on Squads, dont have to ski in "total" control all the time and are able to flex the ski by going fast. Someone that is wearing a 50 pound pack and has been working in the field for 30 years is not going to rip some 2000 foot AK peak in two turns. So the Squad is likely not for them. Doesnt surprise me that your 50 year old buddy (30 years in the field, plus 20 before that?) doesnt like them. I doubt any 50 year old is going to like the longer lengths of the Squads, especially if he wears a 50 pound pack

[gh444]

i didnt misquote you at all. you stated that a month ago you couldn't run a 1/4 mile without pain and soreness. and now you're claiming that your hiking 4500' worth of vertical over 6 miles while carrying an 80lb pack, all in three hours.
not only that but your claiming that "your friend" regularly carries 40-50lbs of pack, while heli skiing in alaska. I've just shown you what 40-50lbs actually consists of. everything but the kitchen sink.
And yes, I've had three acl reconstructions/meniscus repairs. i know the story and how it all works.

your full of crap, enough said.

-aaron

[gh444]

just because there is stuff you can't do (at 240#) doesn't mean it can't be done. things around here are a little different than at mammoth.

huh huh......

-aaron

[pechelman]

ive stayed out of this because it has largely been pointless, but gonehucking, when you take a quote out of context, even if it verbatim from what was typed, it is a misquote.

Id like to see anyone run a 1/4mi with a bum knee and not say it hurts.
Those numbers with the 80lb pack would most definitely be at the tail end of his recovery.

i also dont really know why everyone feels the need to be so confrontational.
so what if you dont believe him.

and the point has totally been lost here.
some dude UAN knows, who sounds like he is a very good\strong skier happened to ski on some 190ish squads and said they were really damned stiff and hard to flex. I think we can all agree on that.

lastly chill out.
this is the internet.
snow is around the corner.

[upallnight]

i didnt misquote you at all. you stated that a month ago you couldn't run a 1/4 mile without pain and soreness. and now you're claiming that your hiking 4500' worth of vertical over 6 miles while carrying an 80lb pack, all in three hours.
not only that but your claiming that "your friend" regularly carries 40-50lbs of pack, while heli skiing in alaska. I've just shown you what 40-50lbs actually consists of. everything but the kitchen sink.
And yes, I've had three acl reconstructions/meniscus repairs. i know the story and how it all works.

your full of crap, enough said.

-aaron

gonehuckin...i just can't let people who have no clue what they're talking about spew shit. sorry. you're trying to be a a-hole here (you've succeeded), and the worst part is you're doing it to yourself. but you won't let it go. you're getting called out on it.

you specifically said that i stated "i can't run a half mile" -- not "i can't run a half mile without pain in the knee". now you're trying to backtrack with your tail between your ass cheeks. nice try, but you said it, and it's all in this thread. i copied my quote for you directly, and you still can't get it right.

i've been carrying increasingly heavy packs as a porter for a local guide service since august 5th. do you know that? do you know how the loads i carry have been increasing up to and including the latest 80# load? do you know how my times, with the increasing loads, have been changing for the same route? didn't think so.

there are plenty of things that i do in my daily life that don't get posted, but i chose to try to help some folks who wind up with a similar injury to give them some hope for what is possible and when -- not on a daily basis, but with periodic check ins.

i personally don't care whether you choose to believe what i say or not, but i do care when you misquote me and attempt to discredit me/my character. my posts come from first-hand experience -- and when i don't have first-hand experience, i add specific caveats. i think people around here who pay attention know who knows their shit.

i don't add up manufacturer's stated weights to figure out what a pack weighs -- i know pretty simply by picking it up and looking at the weight on a scale.

you have a very limited perspective and think that your limited perspective can be extrapolated to every situation you've never encountered, but you're mistaken. there's a world out there that you don't even know about.

it's alright -- no one will ever accidentally accuse you of being intelligent. ("i want to mount either used fr17s or brand new mojo 15s. even after 3 acls i keep my din at 13+ and would prefer to never release.....")

when we want the opinion of the only guy who is 240# and on a pair of 179 made'n AKs, we'll look to you for authoritative answers.

have some respect for yourself.

[Z]

when we want the opinion of the only guy who is 240# and on a pair of 179 made'n AKs, we'll look to you for authoritative answers.

Upallnight = 1
Gonehuckin = -276

I personally think Upallnight is usually very informative and helpful, and think gonehuckin is in the wrong here. Besides, how much hucking can you really do on 179s?

[upallnight]

Z: i appreciate the compliment. i try to only post stuff i know about, and i say so when i'm just making an educated guess.

peace.

[pechelman]

how much hucking can you really do on 179s?

doesnt that depend if you're a midget?

I bet a MiniMe could throw some sick shit switch to the road.

[gh444]

179s were sold after a single day on them. I also got them in a trade with a buddy who i was helping out. i'm currently on ANTs, SVs 189s and Sugars 183s now. I keep the DINs high cause guess what, i ski in places that dont want my skis to release. And my knees were from football not skiing. I'm also 6'2" 240. 3 years ago i was playing outside backer in college at the same weight. Please continue to dig up past posts.

now back to your bullshit-you're just exaggerating to wave your cock. maybe take this all as constructive criticism and cut the bullshit so we can actually hear your infinite wisdom.....2589 posts since november of '05? drop the key board and pickup one of those packs and set it on a scale.

-aaron

[pechelman]

who's waiving whose cock? Im pretty sure UAN has done a *few* no-fall descents before and didnt need DIN13+ to pad his ego.

[gh444]

i was asking for help, nothing more.......

-aaron

[avacadotoast]

Sorry to stray off topic from this spirited discussion...but what's all this boogeyman talk about the squads? I didn't find them very difficult to ski - a bit "planky" feeling but fairly easy to turn. That said, I prefer the more supple flex of the LPs as that actually seems to enable me to smoothly carry more speed (maybe cause I'm only 170lbs).

[upallnight]

179s were sold after a single day on them. I also got them in a trade with a buddy who i was helping out. i'm currently on ANTs, SVs 189s and Sugars 183s now. I keep the DINs high cause guess what, i ski in places that dont want my skis to release. And my knees were from football not skiing. I'm also 6'2" 240. 3 years ago i was playing outside backer in college at the same weight. Please continue to dig up past posts.

now back to your bullshit-you're just exaggerating to wave your cock. maybe take this all as constructive criticism and cut the bullshit so we can actually hear your infinite wisdom.....2589 posts since november of '05? drop the key board and pickup one of those packs and set it on a scale.

-aaron

except i'm stating facts. put me on ignore already if i just spew random stuff that has no basis in fact. i'm pretty sure that people who have been listening know what is fact in my posts and take it as such.

i take constructive criticism just fine -- but don't now try to pass of 'being a huge a-hole' as constructive. also, i politely responded to you that
i was present when the pack was weighed, and i have lifted that very pack. otherwise, i wouldn't claim anything about it. stating a fact about someone else's pack ain't dickwaving. what do i stand to gain from all of this? it doesn't make a bit of difference to me whether he has a 10# pack or a 100 pounder...it's just about the total skier weight flexing the skis.

...but, you're right. i probably don't really get to ski, climb, bike, hike, or do much of anything outdoors.

every time you post, you dig yourself a bit deeper.

as for digging up the past...didn't you start by digging up my "past" and misquoting me? at least i used your own words!

you could pummel me on the gridiron, that i'm sure of. but your head's in your ass about understanding what other people are doing in the mountains.

i ain't the one advertising myself as an 'extreme tour guide'...but that drive from orange county to mammoth does have some pretty extreme traffic.

dude, you've blown it already. sit the fuck down and shut the fuck up.

[upallnight]

I have utmost respect for people that work in the field. However, Squads are not designed for that. They are designed based on the Rossi Team skis that are for people that dont wear a BIG pack. The people that should be on Squads, dont have to ski in "total" control all the time and are able to flex the ski by going fast. Someone that is wearing a 50 pound pack and has been working in the field for 30 years is not going to rip some 2000 foot AK peak in two turns. So the Squad is likely not for them. Doesnt surprise me that your 50 year old buddy (30 years in the field, plus 20 before that?) doesnt like them. I doubt any 50 year old is going to like the longer lengths of the Squads, especially if he wears a 50 pound pack

'fess...
I missed this post in all the mess. (I'm sorry for my part in that mess.)

You have some good points here. My buddy *does* likes the Squads now that he's broken them in (stress cracks on the topsheet).

Fully agree that it's not for people who ski with a huge pack daily...but my point got lost. I was trying (and failed) to say that he's a pretty solid guy w/o pack, and the pack adds on more weight (to well over 200 pounds) -- to give an idea of the skier flexing the ski. When he's without a pack, he's fast and strong. With a pack, there's alot of weight on the ski, but he's (obviously) slower and more deliberate.

W/o the pack, this is the type of guy you can play 'who can ski this 4,000' peak in fewer turns' with, despite his age....and he loves the Squads for that. But...as a stock ski.....they're pretty much overkill for 99.9% of folks out there -- and even more if not skiing the aforementioned terrain.

The man does know how to flex a ski with the best of 'em.

Summary advice for the person considering Squads and at-risk for getting swayed by the board's "long skis are the only way to go" bent: For a normal-sized skier (say 170-195), even if very strong = 189/194 Squads are overkill and problematic.

Just a cautionary bit of info for anyone thinking of putting down some hard-earned dollars -- think twice before you choose the 189/194 over the shorter lengths. Don't do it for ego -- this is not a Gotama.

Thanks for bringing us back on-track, and I hope this ties things up with a bow.

[lemon boy]

gonehuckin- ummmm please stop.

also UAN- while your point was made a long time ago I'd also like to point out that squads are one of only a couple of skis that are typically rated here as very stiff and most people are waved off unless they're known baddies or can clearly handle them. This is the same treatment that is given to 193 M103s.

[WWCD]

stating a fact about someone else's pack ain't dickwaving.

They call it dickwaving by association.