Home warranty problems- grading/drainage?

[smmokan]

Has anyone had to deal with home warranties (for a new home, obviously) for their drainage or grading? We just bought a new house in CO and are having problems with drainage in our backyard. Not only is the drainage inadequate, but to make things worse, the grading of our neighbors (we have 5 yards that back up to our backyard) yards is such that if they water their yards for more than 5-10 minutes, ours is saturated with water. If it ever rains here in CO, then we'll have a lake in the backyard. So... anyone have any experience with this kind of thing or dealing with these warranty rep jackasses? I haven't really been able to get them to do anything yet- they're full of excuses left and right.

Any help or advice would be fantastic.

[boarddad]

YIPES! Sounds like you need a real estate attourney. Your home warranty will cover things like electric circuits, appliances, etc, not bad engineering/construction. In the mean time be sure your house is fully insured for flood damage - most aren't. Don't mean to state the obvious, but hurry up and get it taken care of BEFORE it rains!

[El Chupacabra]

Sounds like a punch list item (a big one), not a home warranty item. Send a letter to the construction company explaining what's going on.

#1 rule: DOCUMENT EVERYTHING. Put all your communications with the construction company in writing. Always. Always. No exception. Always. Keep a copy of everything you send them, in a folder, in one place. Take photos (dated) of the saturated areas, keep prints in your folder.

[DJSapp]

Local building codes should require all properties to drain (mosquito/health issues). Check up with your local gov. on this. I would then recommend submitting a claim to the contractor's insurance company for delivering a product that does not meet local code. This will get their attention. Screw the warranty dept, as this is not a warranty issue. This is defective construction. PM me if you need more info.

EDIT: El Chup is right. If it's not on paper, it didn't happen. Fax with confirmation letter and send via certified mail as well.

[H-man]

As a civil engineer working for a heavy highway company whose basically entire career has been spent getting water to go to the right place, I agree with El Chupacabra. Use the code that DJSapp is talking about as leverage on the contractor/developer/association whoever to make it right. It sounds like a small lot with a lot of fixed locations that can't move (foundations of houses) so something expensive might need to be done using underdrains or yard drains. There is almost always a way to take care of the problem, it just costs money. Your job is to make it someone elses responsibility to spend it.

[DJSapp]

Heh, I didn't realize how many enginerds/cuntractors were on the board. We got your back Lloyd.

[Grange]

A couple of my neighbors had the something similar. One had the builder place the topsoil too close to the house and it created a berm to keep the storm water to close to the house. The builder did come back and fix the mistake and cleaned up any problems that were caused.

The second neighor would have a "lake" in his back yard after every rain. They had to correct the drainage themselves. They hired a landscaper to bring in topsoil and make sure there was drainage to the street.

The contracts we all had in the new subdivision included rough grading only. So it was up to the land owner to make sure the drainage was taken care of when the yard was put in. The problem with this is that everyone just kept on dumping their storm water on to the next house.

[smmokan]

Thanks for the info guys... I'm not sure what they're responsible for and what they aren't- is that something that would be covered in papers we signed, or is that something covered by a county/city zoning code?

Also, our neighbors behind us are on our side as far as their yards not holding water... due to the simple fact that their yards are too steep, does that sound like something that should be taken care of by the builder as well? After 5 minutes of watering, their water just runs right off their yard, thru our neighbor's yard, and eventually into ours.

[jpcski]

I had a similar problem when I bought my house in Colorado. I called up the builder and told them to come and fix it and they did as a punchlist item. Mine was an easy fix. Your builder should handle it at their cost. Do EVERYTHING in writing as suggested above.

...due to the simple fact that their yards are too steep, does that sound like something that should be taken care of by the builder as well? After 5 minutes of watering, their water just runs right off their yard, thru our neighbor's yard, and eventually into ours.

Your neighbor's problem is probably something that the builder can't or won't fix. Fairly predictable I would say. Kind of like buying a house near an airport and then complaining about planes.

[Snow Dog]

Up here all new construction has a site plan with exact grading and drainage. Part of the "construction" is proper water management. But up here you're responsible for your water so you can't dump it on your neighbour unless there's approved drainage, stream, swale or ditch. Other jurisdictions are a free for all so the first step is to find out the rules for your county and specific development.

[splat]

Sounds like a punch list item (a big one), not a home warranty item. Send a letter to the construction company explaining what's going on.

#1 rule: DOCUMENT EVERYTHING. Put all your communications with the construction company in writing. Always. Always. No exception. Always. Keep a copy of everything you send them, in a folder, in one place. Take photos (dated) of the saturated areas, keep prints in your folder.

I would assume that if they provide a solution, they accept responsibilty into the future if it fails due to under-engineering.
El Chub is beyond correct on documenting everything in writing. Everything.

[Gebster]

Thanks for the info guys... I'm not sure what they're responsible for and what they aren't- is that something that would be covered in papers we signed, or is that something covered by a county/city zoning code?

Also, our neighbors behind us are on our side as far as their yards not holding water... due to the simple fact that their yards are too steep, does that sound like something that should be taken care of by the builder as well? After 5 minutes of watering, their water just runs right off their yard, thru our neighbor's yard, and eventually into ours.

As a civil out in Cali, I would say either everything was done by good old boy engineering methods or there was ZERO supervision from the Engineer of Record or their supervised representive. Generally cities/counties will have ordnances laying out the standards for grading, drainage, and development which would include ground slopes. Futhermore grading plans are reviewed by the City/County Engineer to make sure they meet the minimum standards before a grading permit is issued.

I would imagine that things are done in a similar manner in Co as they are out here in Ca.

Lloyd are you in a suburban area or are you out in the boonies?

Either the construction people f'd up or it was the enigineer in which case a complaint to the State Engineering Board might be in order so that action can be taken against their engineering license.

[Gebster]

Up here all new construction has a site plan with exact grading and drainage. Part of the "construction" is proper water management. But up here you're responsible for your water so you can't dump it on your neighbour unless there's approved drainage, stream, swale or ditch. Other jurisdictions are a free for all so the first step is to find out the rules for your county and specific development.

Down here in SD if you are redeveloping land and it causes something like a 50% increase in the runoff discharge, then you got to mitigate that increase in discharge back to the pre-development discharge such as routing through detention basins and the sort.

[smmokan]

As a civil out in Cali, I would say either everything was done by good old boy engineering methods or there was ZERO supervision from the Engineer of Record or their supervised representive. Generally cities/counties will have ordnances laying out the standards for grading, drainage, and development which would include ground slopes. Futhermore grading plans are reviewed by the City/County Engineer to make sure they meet the minimum standards before a grading permit is issued.

I would imagine that things are done in a similar manner in Co as they are out here in Ca.

Lloyd are you in a suburban area or are you out in the boonies?

Either the construction people f'd up or it was the enigineer in which case a complaint to the State Engineering Board might be in order so that action can be taken against their engineering license.

I'm in a suburban area right outside of Denver.

I've got a call into the home warranty people, and they're supposed to come out and shoot the grade again in our yard. I'm fairly certain that it won't be up to spec, seeing the drainage problems we've had. I'm going to follow the advice here depending on what the guy says in the next few days.

[ANON-505]

I do alot of grading/erosion control in New Mexico.

I gotta say, for new construction/big residential developments, erosion control and grading is the MOST overlooked factor.

Let me know if I can be of any help. If the GC or the development that you live in won't fix it, I can help you with some more permaculture-esque way's of dealing with it (swails, berms, pumice wics, etc). This would not only help you not live in a pond, but will also aid in water conservation for you landscaping.

[heelbilly]

Did you have the home inspected by a professional home inspector during the inspection objection process?
If so, a quality inspection of a home will include an examination of the slope and grading surrounding the building.

This is a punch list item, as has been mentioned above. Good luck battling with the builders.

[AtomicTwinStix]

sounds like you need some french drains....

hit me up on the "other" board Lloyd....

GB

[homerjay]

The people that subdivided the land are the ones who fucked up, not the builder of the house...though it could be the same entity. Depending on when the subdivision was built, the warranty period could be over (used to be 1yr, now alot of municipalities are going to 2 yrs). The town or municipality has to accept the subdivision, and the engineer who works for the land developer needs to certify that the subdivision improvements are built per plan. So, you probably have some recourse against the developer, it just might be really tough to get anyone to fix it for you unless any money is being withheld.

[Grange]

I do alot of grading/erosion control in New Mexico.

I gotta say, for new construction/big residential developments, erosion control and grading is the MOST overlooked factor.

Let me know if I can be of any help. If the GC or the development that you live in won't fix it, I can help you with some more permaculture-esque way's of dealing with it (swails, berms, pumice wics, etc). This would not only help you not live in a pond, but will also aid in water conservation for you landscaping.

Sounds like you could be describing a rain garden. These are great if you have the right substrate for it. We just put one at my office and it is a great way to deal with storm water.

Someone also mentioned a french drain. We use these quite a bit when dealing with springs. They work well, but again if you have a clay layer or another non-permeable substrate in the subsoil this option may not work. A soil survey map would give you a general idea of what your looking at.

In my neighbors property under the top soil was sand. Normally that would allow for water to seep away fairly quickly, but there was a layer of clay a couple feet down that cause the water pool up. His only option was to grade for surface drainage. The clay layer was too think to punch through for a french drain.

[smmokan]

Did you have the home inspected by a professional home inspector during the inspection objection process?
If so, a quality inspection of a home will include an examination of the slope and grading surrounding the building.

This is a punch list item, as has been mentioned above. Good luck battling with the builders.

There was a problem there- when we bought the house and did the walk-thru etc., there was 6 inches of snow on the ground and so we couldn't see anything with the grading/drainage.

[smmokan]

OK... so, assuming these jackass guys from the warranty dept. don't do anything for me (or refuse to), what steps do I take in going above them? Apparently, they're going to have an engineer come out and shoot the grade again, so I should have that information on hand. When the water comes down in our yard again (I may have to wait til it rains), I can take pictures and document the situation. My back neighbor already has a video of the running water thru his yard as well.

There's been so much advice here I'm not sure where I'd start. Should I check into the building/grading codes for the county first? Should I talk with the home-builder's insurance company to file a complaint? Feel free to PM me if it would be easier. Hopefully I won't have to deal with it, and they'll take care of the problem- but I have a feeling it won't work out that way.

[El Chupacabra]

Heh, I didn't realize how many enginerds/cuntractors were on the board. We got your back Lloyd.

And construction defect litigation attorneys. (defense side, though I've had enough of these PITA cases to know what the builder should repair)

Have you sent the builder a letter explaining the problem? Any response? (and if so, what?) If not, how long has it been?

This is something you will want to take care of, soon. If the land near/under your house is overly wet (compared to surrounding soils), you have potentially very serious problems with subsidence (earth lifting and/or settling), which can damage your foundation (i.e. very expensive to repair). If you end up with long-term moisture in/under the house, this can lead to mold concerns.

Any of these problems, if left to go on long enough, can affect the value of your house when it's time to sell. You will have to disclose known problems to the buyer.

Best to take care of it now when all you have is a wet lawn, or wet dirt if the landscaping isn't even in yet. Keep your uphill neighbor on your side -- you both have problems with drainage that need to be fixed by the builder.

[smmokan]

And construction defect litigation attorneys. (defense side, though I've had enough of these PITA cases to know what the builder should repair)

Have you sent the builder a letter explaining the problem? Any response? (and if so, what?) If not, how long has it been?

This is something you will want to take care of, soon. If the land near/under your house is overly wet (compared to surrounding soils), you have potentially very serious problems with subsidence (earth lifting and/or settling), which can damage your foundation (i.e. very expensive to repair). If you end up with long-term moisture in/under the house, this can lead to mold concerns.

Any of these problems, if left to go on long enough, can affect the value of your house when it's time to sell. You will have to disclose known problems to the buyer.

Best to take care of it now when all you have is a wet lawn, or wet dirt if the landscaping isn't even in yet. Keep your uphill neighbor on your side -- you both have problems with drainage that need to be fixed by the builder.

I haven't sent a letter- I have only made phone calls, which they have in turn recorded and sent me a letter confirming the complaint. We don't have water near or under our house- its all out in our yard right now.

[lemon boy]

We don't have water near or under our house-

that you can see....

just one thought for your neighbors, they need to run their sprinklers in short bursts 3min on, 30min off, 3min on to get the correct water down.

[smmokan]

Yeah, they've just now figured that out- they're running it 8-10 times a day for 5 minutes at a time. What a PITA.