NX21 durability?

[upallnight]

I did Diamond Head in Squamish early this winter on my Head Worldcups, S900s and Mojos, like 6 hours or so of touring and 15 mins of skiing...

The question on everyone's mind: Why?

What's the mileage/vert you traveled/climbed?

What's Diamond Head like? I'm not familiar with it.

[davep]

The question on everyone's mind: Why?

What's the mileage/vert you traveled/climbed?

What's Diamond Head like? I'm not familiar with it.

Lots of low-angle terrain, not a lot of turns to be had. but nice scenery.

great place for introduction to touring due to lack of avy danger. it was my first (of only a few!) tours to date.

[Hugh Jardon]

No problems with my NX21's, they totally rule. Used with Garmont Adrenalines mostly in area but maybe 25 days skinning on them. That combo kills it both in area and out. I love being able to keep up with my Dynafit using friends even though my shit is way heavier. I think I might just be psyched to get to the top and ski cause I'm lugging around about 3 more kilos per foot. When we do half day tour half day area those guys have to change set ups...ha!

[upallnight]

No problems with my NX21's, they totally rule. Used with Garmont Adrenalines mostly in area but maybe 25 days skinning on them. That combo kills it both in area and out. I love being able to keep up with my Dynafit using friends even though my shit is way heavier. I think I might just be psyched to get to the top and ski cause I'm lugging around about 3 more kilos per foot. When we do half day tour half day area those guys have to change set ups...ha!

You must have some slow-ass buddies or you're an absolute monster!!!

3k extra/foot (which seems off...your boots are maybe 1.5 pounds heavier than theirs, unless they're using some weight-weenie boots; the bindings are another 3 pounds...and there's no reason they can't rock the same skis -- you're sort of comparing apples to oranges if not) = 6.6 lbs/foot = the equivalent of an extra 75 pounds on your back.

Why do they have to change setups? You can totall rock Dynafits + just about any ski in the area...although I wouldn't do it every day.

[addict]

I love 27 pounds are talked about as touring setups!

8 pounds of bindings/trekkers + 9 pound skis + 10 pound boots.

Touring = lift to top, duck under ropes, traverse back?

That heavy a setup is a freaking workout!

Also, I'm curious how much backcountry (at least a couple miles from a trailhead) hucking (over 20 feet) people do.

I tour on the above setup, and like I said in the other thread we were to-ing and froi-ng in, I do get a respectable amount of proper touring in. The last 3 seasons has been 2 times a week in places like Roger's Pass or similar, and the rest of the week sidecountry. But serious sidecountry (like minimum 5hour days). And yes it is a workout, but yes it is a LOT of fun.

Maybe you've hit the real reason on the head there. Especially the last 2 seasons (based at Whitewater) most of my hucking has been done touring. There are really no real hucks inbounds there, but good hucking terrain OB. Plus no one hits the bigger drops I'm not a madman, but I do liek the feeling of dropping shit. Also, Rogers Pass has some nice hucks as does kootenay pass and all the places I won't name here. I've hucked up to maybe 25 real feet (as in the cliff itself is 2.5 storeys) in fritchis, but it's a lot scarier than in alpine binders. I wouldn't go bigger than that in AT bindings, but enjoy it in alpines. I'm happy to come home from the BC super tired but uninjured and have a beer than beaten up off a smaller drop and lose the use of my arm for a week again. MAn does that ever suck!

[couloirman]

Just saw this thread so i figured id give my $.02. The nx 21 is definitley the best most solid AT binder out there right now. That being said, there are a number of issues with it.
1.) Like said before the toe pieces squeak in tour mode.
2.)There is no way to turn the din on my model all the way up to 13, it stops around 11.5 and no amount of force will get it any higher without horribly stripping the slot(yes they are properly adjusted). This has created some issues because i usually ride alpine binders at 12 or 13, and since most people have to raise the din a notch or two on AT binders from their alpine number, so this has created some pre release issues when hucking(no huck over 30 ft has resulted in a ski staying on my feet on these binders), and even just regular skiing i have had numerous pre releases so my confidence in them is not perfect, but if you change your style to suit them, they are a great match.
3.)The heel piece seems a bit flimsy and is made of some plastic that makes a scarily loud sound when closing, and after having one crack this winter in the cold, it scares me every time i get in or out.


When will there be an all metal AT binder that goes din up to 16 or so? Please someone with connections with BCA of BD or Fritchi tell them that there is a market for this. Honestly i Would but them no matter what the weight, and dont someone chime in and say trekkers b/c they dont tour well and will break your bindings if you fall forward. Would anyone else but them if they had them? Lets let them know theres a market for them

[Toby]

Would anyone else but them if they had them?

Yes. If someone could make an AT binding that was in the same weight range as 916s with similar DIN, I'd be all over it. No-one will, though. Apart from TGR, I doubt there's a market.

[Kya]

Would anyone else but them....

I can only imagine how many would

[upallnight]

Just saw this thread so i figured id give my $.02. The nx 21 is definitley the best most solid AT binder out there right now. That being said, there are a number of issues with it.
1.) Like said before the toe pieces squeak in tour mode.
2.)There is no way to turn the din on my model all the way up to 13, it stops around 11.5 and no amount of force will get it any higher without horribly stripping the slot(yes they are properly adjusted). This has created some issues because i usually ride alpine binders at 12 or 13, and since most people have to raise the din a notch or two on AT binders from their alpine number, so this has created some pre release issues when hucking(no huck over 30 ft has resulted in a ski staying on my feet on these binders), and even just regular skiing i have had numerous pre releases so my confidence in them is not perfect, but if you change your style to suit them, they are a great match.
3.)The heel piece seems a bit flimsy and is made of some plastic that makes a scarily loud sound when closing, and after having one crack this winter in the cold, it scares me every time i get in or out.


When will there be an all metal AT binder that goes din up to 16 or so? Please someone with connections with BCA of BD or Fritchi tell them that there is a market for this. Honestly i Would but them no matter what the weight, and dont someone chime in and say trekkers b/c they dont tour well and will break your bindings if you fall forward. Would anyone else but them if they had them? Lets let them know theres a market for them

doesn't really sound like 'the best most solid AT binder out there.'

how long have you been riding them? how many pairs have you had? what other bindings have you used? i'm curious, because have a pair of nx21s break when they haven't been out very long isn't a good track-record.

for what it's worth, i've only had one pair of (really old, heavily-used) fritschis break, and i've never had a non-legitimate release (non-huck-related) from any model Fritschi, in 9-10 years of use.

30+ foot hucks not landed absolutely on-it are too much for the Fritschi -- and for any other AT (and many alpine) bindings out there.

i know i've said it before, but i think part of the issue is using alpine boots with these 'touring' bindings, and expecting them to be as completely solid as metal alpine bindings when totally abused.

all our touring products come from the euro-market...and touring is waaaay different there. the stuff we have (nx21s, freerides, etc) is considered to be the burly end of things. probably have a better chance of having an american company create a product for the market you discuss. the european companies have less interest as (a) the market for what you're talking about is super-small...and generally not really associated with "touring", unless you mean sidecountry or very short distances, and (b) the market is definitely not a big one in the home territory of these companies.

[StuntCok]

I am a touring JONG but I did spend one day in the park on my Nx21s (planned on a hike, brought only the Naxo mounted skis and then found out my buddy forgot his beacon etc.). I slid rails, landed some big switch landings and ate shit a couple of times. Bindings held up (and released) fine.

[couloirman]

[QUOTE=upallnight]

how long have you been riding them? how many pairs have you had? what other bindings have you used?

fQUOTE]

had them since last year. got 50+ days on them, only 15 before the heel peice broke but since that has been fixed and my style has changed accordingly on them i have had no issues. I just would like to see a heavy duty AT binder out there that doesnt force me to change style. I have also been on freerides and had the same release issues.

I dont think you have to look at a heavy AT binder as only a short jaunt binding/sidecountry binding. There are a lot of long tours with descents that REQUIRE a binding to be rock solid and not release. I wouldnt even consider going into the BC if i didnt want to rage the slopes like I do on alpine binders, so this problem must be solved and met with a worthy ALL METAL AT binding.

[upallnight]

I dont think you have to look at a heavy AT binder as only a short jaunt binding/sidecountry binding. There are a lot of long tours with descents that REQUIRE a binding to be rock solid and not release. I wouldnt even consider going into the BC if i didnt want to rage the slopes like I do on alpine binders, so this problem must be solved and met with a worthy ALL METAL AT binding.

I've been on plenty of terrain where a fall is absolutely not an option, and I've had 100% trust in my Fritschis (since the Titanal II) and my Dynafits.

"Raging" in the BC is not always advisable/feasible...and definitely not so in you-fall-you-die terrain. In the absolute right conditions, yeah...totally opening it up is cool, but skiing the same in the BC as people do in the resort safety net is asking for trouble (for most folks).

Anyway...I mean no disrespect, but if Fritschis and Dynafits are perfectly fine for folks like Doug Coombs and Mark Newcomb, why do you think they're not bomber? (Not talking about hucks here, as no AT binding is going to accommodate 30 footers without totally perfect, 4-point landings...)

Most of the folks that would buy that "ALL METAL AT BINDING" would not be going very far with it. They'd be on heavy alpine boots, huge skis, and heavy bindings. Doubt many would be seen more than a mile from the TH -- and I bet most would be shuttles and sidecountry. That doesn't mean there isn't a market for it, and it doesn't mean that some folks wouldn't take them out long and far, but it really just isn't that common (or wise) for folks to travel waaaay into the BC in serious terrain to huck. Puts a termendous amount of responsibility and strain on your buddies or rescuers to extract you when something goes wrong.

[/rant]

[danhikeski]

thought that i would chime in my .02, this is all coming from having a bigger hiking background than skiing, anyways, the first and biggest thing that you can lower the weight of is yourself... most of us can prolly cut a few pounds (or more) off just our guts. notice i said pounds, not grams, so right their you are cutting more weight than any titanium thing/dynafit binding out there. any type of weight shaving obviously will help with your touring ablity/speed

[upallnight]

thought that i would chime in my .02, this is all coming from having a bigger hiking background than skiing, anyways, the first and biggest thing that you can lower the weight of is yourself... most of us can prolly cut a few pounds (or more) off just our guts. notice i said pounds, not grams, so right their you are cutting more weight than any titanium thing/dynafit binding out there. any type of weight shaving obviously will help with your touring ablity/speed

i think part of the issue is that these bindings (again, designed by euro companies) are not necessarily for the guy who weighs 220 before putting on any gear. that adds to the problem.

point taken about losing weight on your gut. that said, the one extra pound on the foot is way more significant than an extra pound on the gut -- for a person of a given size.

the difference between an all-metal (916-style) AT binding and, say, a dynafit would be many pounds (not grams)...and each pound of the foot is equal to 5.6 pounds on the gut. how many folks are willing to lose 25 pounds just to tour? not many, i'd bet.

[WWCD]

thought that i would chime in my .02, this is all coming from having a bigger hiking background than skiing, anyways, the first and biggest thing that you can lower the weight of is yourself... most of us can prolly cut a few pounds (or more) off just our guts. notice i said pounds, not grams, so right their you are cutting more weight than any titanium thing/dynafit binding out there. any type of weight shaving obviously will help with your touring ablity/speed

Best thing would be to cut off your toes. If the 1lb on the foot equals 5lbs on the back is accurate. That is some significant savings.

[upallnight]

Best thing would be to cut off your toes. If the 1lb on the foot equals 5lbs on the back is accurate. That is some significant savings.

alright...now we're talking.

what about cutting the feet off at the ankle? *huge* savings!

[ski_faster]

This discussion came up yesterday on a ride. So many people are so concerned about having a really light bike when I think most of us could stand to loss 10-15 lbs. I am 5'10'' and weigh 185 and I know I could tour longer are farther if I lost 15lbs. Anyway back to the discussion about NX21 durability. I have about 15 days on mine resort and backcountry and no problems with hucking and chargin hard.

i think part of the issue is that these bindings (again, designed by euro companies) are not necessarily for the guy who weighs 220 before putting on any gear. that adds to the problem.

point taken about losing weight on your gut. that said, the one extra pound on the foot is way more significant than an extra pound on the gut -- for a person of a given size.

the difference between an all-metal (916-style) AT binding and, say, a dynafit would be many pounds (not grams)...and each pound of the foot is equal to 5.6 pounds on the gut. how many folks are willing to lose 25 pounds just to tour? not many, i'd bet.

[pde20]

[QUOTE=couloirman]

how long have you been riding them? how many pairs have you had? what other bindings have you used?

fQUOTE]

had them since last year. got 50+ days on them, only 15 before the heel peice broke but since that has been fixed and my style has changed accordingly on them i have had no issues. I just would like to see a heavy duty AT binder out there that doesnt force me to change style. I have also been on freerides and had the same release issues.

I dont think you have to look at a heavy AT binder as only a short jaunt binding/sidecountry binding. There are a lot of long tours with descents that REQUIRE a binding to be rock solid and not release. I wouldnt even consider going into the BC if i didnt want to rage the slopes like I do on alpine binders, so this problem must be solved and met with a worthy ALL METAL AT binding.

The tool for what you are talking about already exists: it is called the Alpine Trekker. In order for you to huck anything you want and "rage the slopes like I do on alpine binders" you are going to need...you guessed it, alpine binders. You admit you are willing to lug the equivalent of a heavy resort binder around on sidecountry, shuttles and shorter backcountry tours, so just sack up and buy trekkers swallow the extra weight (what is another couple pound at this point anyway?) use your resort set up and charge away.

And, to agree with Upallnight, rock solid bindings for technical descents and the vast majority of backcountry and sidcountry skiing do exist. For those who are willing to curtail drops over 10-15 ft and lose tons of weight without sacrificing safety or performance, there is dynafit. For those who are willing to curtail drops over 30-40 ft. there are freerides and naxos. For those, like yourself, who don't want to curtail their skiing behavior at all, there is not going to be a hell of a lot of differnece, in terms of weight and i would guess functionality, between any all metal AT touring binding that might get invented and your resort set up with trekkers.

[couloirman]

[QUOTE=pde20]

The tool for what you are talking about already exists: it is called the Alpine Trekker. In order for you to huck anything you want and "rage the slopes like I do on alpine binders" you are going to need...you guessed it, alpine binders. You admit you are willing to lug the equivalent of a heavy resort binder around on sidecountry, shuttles and shorter backcountry tours, so just sack up and buy trekkers swallow the extra weight (what is another couple pound at this point anyway?) use your resort set up and charge away.

.

and dont someone chime in and say trekkers b/c they dont tour well and will break your bindings if you fall forward.

Oh gee thanks, i hadnt already said anything about that. I toured on my trekkers all of two days before they broke, then got warrantied and sold them. Any time you are on a side hill lie(golf reference) they want to rip out of your ski and break your bindings.

[upallnight]

This discussion came up yesterday on a ride. So many people are so concerned about having a really light bike when I think most of us could stand to loss 10-15 lbs. I am 5'10'' and weigh 185 and I know I could tour longer are farther if I lost 15lbs. Anyway back to the discussion about NX21 durability. I have about 15 days on mine resort and backcountry and no problems with hucking and chargin hard.

i know...always cracked me up how folks want a derailleur that is lighter by 10-15 grams...and they're walking around 20lbs overweight.

had that exact same discussion yesterday (with a friend who realized that he should lose 20 pounds instead of paying more $$ than a gram of coke to save weight on his road bike).

[couloirman]

oh yeah, and before someone says "an AT binding that heavy wont tour well at all" let me clarify that by tour well i simply mean have a confortable/natural stride, and have good lateral stabilty with the sole beam coming down square onto the climbing post every time. Trekkers and such dont have climbing posts that work. the stand for them on the bottom is just two tiny metal pieces that bend and give way on the weight of any decent sized person. they are worthless IMO

[FiveLarge]

IMHO, when it comes to durability, the nx21, nx01 (2nd gen), and freeride are all about as equally durable. This is based on firsthand experience, and testimonials of breakage on all 3 models. The first gen nx01s no doubt had more than their fair share of problems...but I've really heard of few issues with the 2nd gen 01's. Yes, they certainly exist...but as is obvious with this thread, they also exist with the nx21, and I've also heard of the freerides having their fair share of issues... Now, obviously, the nx21 is beefier than the nx01...but again, I'm not hearing of significantly more issues with the 2nd gen 01's than I am with the 21's.

That being said, if I were shopping for a new AT binding, and cost was no issue, I'd go with the 21's. At the same time, I'm currently satisfied with my 2nd gen 01's.

[pde20]

[QUOTE=couloirman]

Oh gee thanks, i hadnt already said anything about that. I toured on my trekkers all of two days before they broke, then got warrantied and sold them. Any time you are on a side hill lie(golf reference) they want to rip out of your ski and break your bindings.

Apologies for not reading back far enough and paying close enough attention to your post. But seriously, you want everything in one set of bindings. Makes me think of Max Gosey's car thread and the best respone to that post:



You basically want an alpine binding that tours without any of the limitations of an AT binding in terms of performance. I want a mountain bike that weighs 10 pounds but has 8 inches of travel, but I'm not holding my breath. Unless there is some breakthrough in materials or design and unless you clone a couple thousand of the die-hardest maggots who want to tour long days to huck 60 foot cliffs there simply ain't the market to support the kind of research that you are talking about to make this kind of product design leap. You know what market this kind of desire does drive? Heli skiing in Alaska, which only the pros and those willing and able to pay market prices are able to access.

Of course, this is the kind of cynical diatribe that motivates someone like yourself to go and invent the damn thing, make a trillion dollars and prove me wrong, so, I'll be waiting here to eat crow on this one along with the guy who said "who the fuck wants to buy a chia pet or pet rock?"

[couloirman]

[QUOTE=pde20]

I want a mountain bike that weighs 10 pounds but has 8 inches of travel, but I'm not holding my breath.

Heli skiing in Alaska, which only the pros and those willing and able to pay market prices are able to access.

i think this binding is a little more reasonable than that bike in terms of cost and feasibility of engineering.


and heli skiing in alaska while fun, is not done in the same spirit as earning turns, so that does not fit in in this market.

[upallnight]

...

well said!