questions about SC Blur

[wilcox510]

Im thinking about getting a XC/all mountain bike and either a blur XC or the last generation of the original blur are my leading choices. I was talking to a mechanic the other day, and he told me that he wasnt a fan of the blur. He said that due to the linkage system you wear out cables and housing to the point that they need to be replaced really often, even every month or so if you ride alot. He thought they were difficult to maintain. Anyone have any thoughts on this?

[sfotex]

Did the mechanic look like this?:

[kidwoo]

I hate blurs for none of the reasons he stated if that helps.

[wilcox510]

kidwoo - do you really hate blurs? why?

[kidwoo]

kidwoo - do you really hate blurs? why?

Keep in mind the speaker here......one of the most anal bike dwids you will ever meet in your life.....


Blurs and pretty much every bike SC builds have suspension systems with a falling rate progression. What this translates to some people as, is a bike that gives up it's travel easily over "regular" terrain. It feels like you're using all the travel pretty regularly.

I'm someone who rides a lot of dh, dirtjumps slalomish tracks etc and I pump and compress my bike a lot to maintain/generate speed on descents. To me suspesion designs like this kill a lot of that input since there's no progressive resistance towards the end of the stroke. It also provides a very unbalanced feel since your fork is just using a simple, almost exclusively linear stroke. The rear end has no "pop" out of corners or down the backside of transitions, rocks etc you're trying to pump off of. It feels dead because there's no ramp up of resistance. When you hear people talk about "progressive" suspension rates, this is what they're referring to. The blur doesn't have it.

I've also ridden one blur and a few vp frees that have shocks tuned with no platform or ending stroke damping and it's very obvious when you try to pump them without some shock tuning compensation. I also think the blurs in particular don't pedal that well.........but I think the same thing about the enduro I'm riding as well.


Take that for what it's worth. Just another opinion.

[rideit]

I concur with the above, with a few twists. I don't ride quite as aggressively as Kidwoo, but I am in line with the falling rate hubbub. Same criticism on the 575, especially with a 5th element. My bigger beef with the Blur is the LOW bb, (pedal strike city), and super small rear tire clearance. I would hold out for a Nomad, if you needed to stick with SC.

[kidwoo]

My bigger beef with the Blur is the LOW bb,

That's the only thing I do like about it.

[freshies]

the blur is a good all around'er for a bike. if you ride lots ofi also think that the VPP suspension is pretty $$. i ride a lot and haven't had any of these alleged cable problems, etc. i do a spring and fall maint routine where i change cables and housing and lube all pivot pints, etc.

[wilcox510]

aww crap, now youre making this all the more confusing for me. so maybe this thread should be changed to "what bike should I get?". Heres my deal, i'm more on the XC side of things, dont do any real drops or downhill style stuff. ride mostly around salt lake where things are too rough, but also ride around moab alot. i'm coming from a schwinn rocket 88, which has 3.5 inches of travel i think. i was thinking about going up to around 4.5 inches of travel, but hoping to keep weight about the same (not much more than 27ish pounds). ive also heard really good things about the Rocky mountain element and ETSX, the latter in particular. any input on those, or other suggestions?

[rideit]

I owned an ETSX, I think that bike fits your bill to a T. Climbs like an absolute goat, variable BB height with the travel change, I LOVED that bike. I may get another one if they do one with more travel. The Blur would actually suit your needs well too, It just wasn't 'right' for me. We have a lot of log down-step up-over tech moves here, so the tall BB is the ticket for me. Just not too tall!

[BC_Mike]

Keep in mind the speaker here......one of the most anal bike dwids you will ever meet in your life.....


Blurs and pretty much every bike SC builds have suspension systems with a falling rate progression. What this translates to some people as, is a bike that gives up it's travel easily over "regular" terrain. It feels like you're using all the travel pretty regularly.

I'm someone who rides a lot of dh, dirtjumps slalomish tracks etc and I pump and compress my bike a lot to maintain/generate speed on descents. To me suspesion designs like this kill a lot of that input since there's no progressive resistance towards the end of the stroke. It also provides a very unbalanced feel since your fork is just using a simple, almost exclusively linear stroke. The rear end has no "pop" out of corners or down the backside of transitions, rocks etc you're trying to pump off of. It feels dead because there's no ramp up of resistance. When you hear people talk about "progressive" suspension rates, this is what they're referring to. The blur doesn't have it.

I've also ridden one blur and a few vp frees that have shocks tuned with no platform or ending stroke damping and it's very obvious when you try to pump them without some shock tuning compensation. I also think the blurs in particular don't pedal that well.........but I think the same thing about the enduro I'm riding as well.


Take that for what it's worth. Just another opinion.

You definitely have to ride differently on these VPP bikes. I used to be like you, lovin the pop of even the smallest lip....trouble is the bike was like being at the rodeo. The monkey motion in the slow tech drove me nuts, and every time I landed a 8 foot drop, I'd be trying to reel it all in as the bike tried to get away from me.

If you bed in the VPP or DW link to end of the sag as you hit the lip, it become more like take-off with a hard tail. You have to use less body english, and you don't do the same pumping, but you will get the air and cover the distance. What's really cool is that you can pedal over square edge stuff way better. So while you like to get speed from rhythm and pumping the bike (ie coasting), guys like Steve Peat are killing it on a V10 by pedalling through everything. Different strokes.......

[kidwoo]

You definitely have to ride differently on these VPP bikes.

If you bed in the VPP or DW link to end of the sag as you hit the lip,

Tell me more.










Intense vpp and santa cruz vpp bikes (at least the big ones) ride fairly differently though. Haven't ridden a 5.5 or spider enough to compare.

check this out if you're REALLY REALLY bored. I've already exhausted myself over this. "Danno" has some good stuff in here.

http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.ph...2C+free+linear


For what it's worth, I do know how I like a bike to feel jumping. I've been doing it for a while now. It's not like I'm going through that phase the every first suspension bike owner goes through where they feel like they have to jump off and over everything.
Not like that's relevant to a bike like the blur but jumping aside, I still think the thing feels like a dead marshmellow in corners and trying to pump on it.

But not getting it because some dumb lackey at a bike shop doesn't know how to route cables would be a shame. That is NEVER an issue on any design. That's why zipties exist.

[sfotex]

Test ride a Blur and see if you like it, 'cause that's all that really matters in the end.

[kidwoo]

Test ride a Blur and see if you like it, 'cause that's all that really matters in the end.

word

[Telenater]

He said that due to the linkage system you wear out cables and housing to the point that they need to be replaced really often, even every month or so if you ride alot.

Preamble: I don't own and have never ridden on any of the VPP bikes, but I am doing armchair research in preparation of having money for a new bike.


In my reading this is the first I've heard of cable wear. Bearings on VPP bikes wearing out frequently has been a frequent complaint, but not cables.

[Merlyn]

I owned an ETSX, I think that bike fits your bill to a T. Climbs like an absolute goat, variable BB height with the travel change, I LOVED that bike.

Correction: the ETSX climbs like a ninja mountain goat on speed, even with my skinny legs providing the power. Awesome XC/light trailbike. My '02 has adjustable travel in the rear: 3.5/4.0/4.5 inches. I believe the current ETSX has 4.0/4.5/5.0 inches.

[brettf]

Don't know why there isn't a lot of love here for the Blur.

The only real maintenance I've done on mine is to replace the pivot hardware once in the 2.5 years I've ridden it (it could use another replacement now though) and remove little pebbles from the inside of the rear triangle. (rear triangle has a little hole in it that should be plugged with silicone or something)... had to replace the cables when they became worn out, but they don't wear quickly... that is a really odd complaint about the Blur...

The bike has put up with a massive amount of abuse and lots of hard miles...

I really like the feel of the VPP suspension. From the Blur to the Intense rigs to the V10, it feels very plush and seems to build resistance through rough sections like no other design.

I've never dirt jumped my Blur aside from fun play sections on trails or places where jumps are around. It isn't a hardtail but I never feel like I'm losing too much power through pump sections... hell, don't feel that way on the V10 or anything else either...

Anyway, kickass bike. They can put up with WAY more than what most of the Blur riding sissies normally throw at them.

In the end, it is all about what feels right. I can't stand the way the Yeti suspension feels, but I have a lot of riding buddies who swear by it and hate the SC designs... just ride on some and see what you like. One word of caution though, I didn't like the VPP at first... it took me a couple of weeks of riding to really start to appreciate it. Now I can't imagine going back.

[Primo]

if efficiancy is whats most important, a blur is not the winner among many other linkage designs for xc riding.
But the most important thing of all is fit.

[sfotex]

I went from 14 years on a hard tail to a giant trance last summer. The trance is a VPP knock off, and now that you mention it, I do seem to notice that I can't load up the bike while I'm coming out of corners, etc., like I used to on my HT. But, I like really long XC style rides, so my butt is planted in the saddle as much as possible, and I'm too lazy to get aggro and push the bike harder. I could see if one is doing shorter, intense events that the linear spring rate would feel dead....

[powpig]

I got my Blur XC at the end of last summer. I'm mostly a XC guy, not really into jumping but do certainly love a good DH. Rode a lot til winter hit and have been out on it quite a bit the last month. Have never heard of any problems with the cables. My biggest gripe is with the Shimano Discs but that's another thread.

I get to the Interbike Demo every year so I have demoed quite a few other bikes, even if it's only for an hour here or there. The Blur wasn't the best bike I've tried, just the best for the price I could get it for. The Specialized Epic is the best climber I've ever ridden but is a bit too harsh IMO for all-around trail riding. Both the Intense 5.5 & 6.6 are sweet rides if you've got the $$$$. When I rode the Blur LT last fall it felt pretty much the same as my XC,and that may be my only regret, that I didn't get the LT.

Just like ski technology is amazing these days, same with mt bikes. If you shell out a couple Gs, you'll have a sweet bike no matter what you decide. Go test ride a few, you'll know.

[freshies]

lots of good info here. i came off a 10 year love affair with my steel Yeti hard tail, and got the Blur 3 years ago. from day one i felt "solid" on this rig. its a go everywhere, do everything bike, and i have it built up more free-ride'ish than XC: push'd fox rear and 100RL fFOX float up front, full XTR disc kit, w/Thompson post & stem $ WTB moto raptors - 2.4 fattie up front, 2.24 rear.

the VPP, especially if coming from a hard tail or XC'ish background, is a solid platform and climbs amazingly well, and tracks true. 4.5" of travel is a great all around'er - especially 3 years ago. as with everything else, skis get fatter anfd more suspension with fewer weight penalties keeps pushing these numbers higher. do i wish i had a 6"+ travel bike sometimes? hell yeah. but for a one bike quiver for Tahoe and Marin (where I spend 90% of my time riding single track between these two places), this is the perfect rig.

No major maint or mechanical problems in the 3+ years I have owned this bike. As smeone else mentioned, lube those pivot points ea. fall (especially after a dusty last-summer season in Tahoe) and replace cables and housing at yearly intervals, just like you would on any bike.

[wilcox510]

primo - so what is the winner or winners? (assuming they all fit perfectly)

[Primo]

To me an Ellsworth.
I also feel a 4 bar link w/ horst link setup is more efficient.
Don't get me wrong a lot of bikes do the job and I've had fun on a
Blur before too. I was in the bike industry a long time and from a physics
stand point some are more efficient than others and patents cost money
I am not an engineer and don't profess to be the "expert"
some companies are just more marketing driven than technology driven.