Good story about that wonderful Moore guy!

**seatosky** · 06-01-2006, 09:19 AM

Originally Posted by BLOOD SWEAT STEEL

Quick search of his website

http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache...s&ct=clnk&cd=1

reveals...

Next....

Can you answer my 2nd question?

**cj001f** · 06-01-2006, 09:22 AM

Surprise, on this thread we find retards who think documentaries are supposed to be objective truth (or could ever be!).

**MassLiberal** · 06-01-2006, 09:27 AM

Originally Posted by AKPogue

So this makes it okay to judge something you know absolutely nothing about! A couple of articles and you are an expert at what happened here. When was the last time you got shot at, had mortars blown up around you, carried your buddies away in a body bag, or saw the humvee in front of you get blown the fuck up?

Who the hell are you you self righteous prick?

The Marines there may or may not have done the wrong thing there but you have no place to judge them. That is for the investigators to find out. But of course I am probably wrong about you because you are probably a hardened warrior who makes absolutely the right decisions when under the gun!

I guess you feel like because you had a family member die in a war you know what a war is like. Well until you have personally been in one you don't know shit!

Empty threats and appeals to fear are no way to make an argument.

Of course it is impossible for anyone who is not in Iraq to comprehend the stresses that marines go through. The problem is that incidents like what happened in Haditha are what happens when the military is used as a police force. I hate the fact that Marines are put in these put in these situations, and I am reluctant to put the blame on their shoulders (where it will unfortunately come to lie).

These are the consequences of blindly following a leader to war who has no plan for victory. And it sucks.

**PNWbrit** · 06-01-2006, 09:34 AM

Originally Posted by AKPogue

So this makes it okay to judge something you know absolutely nothing about! A couple of articles and you are an expert at what happened here. When was the last time you got shot at, had mortars blown up around you, carried your buddies away in a body bag, or saw the humvee in front of you get blown the fuck up?

Who the hell are you you self righteous prick?

The Marines there may or may not have done the wrong thing there but you have no place to judge them. That is for the investigators to find out. But of course I am probably wrong about you because you are probably a hardened warrior who makes absolutely the right decisions when under the gun!

I guess you feel like because you had a family member die in a war you know what a war is like. Well until you have personally been in one you don't know shit!

If I'd carried away the bodies of civilians killed in Haditha would that give me the right to comment? or how about if I was a "hardened warrior" who just happened to fight against the U.S. occupation?

Since when did being in the military become the sole qualification to have a legitimate view about the actions of the government or armed forces?

**MeatPuppet** · 06-01-2006, 09:39 AM

Originally Posted by Dexter Rutecki

Nearly everything Moore has ever stated in print or film has been exactly right,

Dexter you can't be serious.

BLOOD SWEAT STEEL · 06-01-2006, 09:39 AM

Originally Posted by cj001f

Surprise, on this thread we find retards who think documentaries are supposed to be objective truth (or could ever be!).

....And we also find retards that think fiction blatantly portrayed as fact is acceptable, but ONLY if it supports one's personal political positioning...

:scratches head: Funny, isn't that the EXACT same thing you accuse our own president of?

[You don't need to answer that.]

Seaotsky - Yes - and cj's example was the first that came to mind, actually.

**DaveTV** · 06-01-2006, 09:44 AM

Originally Posted by AKPogue

Who the hell are you you self righteous prick?

**seatosky** · 06-01-2006, 09:48 AM

The funniest thing is, for all the doom and gloom in F/911, a few years down the road, things are actually worse than even Moore thought they'd be.

All the important facts in that movie were nothing you couldn't find out on your own through mainstream news sources (even if some of the issues were buried on the back pages), and most of them that hadn't seen front-page time eventually did in the years between the movie's release and today.

Reality backed him up. He's still a goof, but at least he's now a goof who can say 'I told you so'.

**flowtron** · 06-01-2006, 09:49 AM

Originally Posted by BLOOD SWEAT STEEL

....And we also find retards that think fiction blatantly portrayed as fact is acceptable

Are you all fired up about he Di Vinci Code?

Funny, when taken out of context you could be talking about Moore or the current administration. Thats whats truly maddening about this thread.

BLOOD SWEAT STEEL · 06-01-2006, 09:54 AM

Originally Posted by flowtron

Are you all fired up about he Di Vinci Code?

Funny, when taken out of context you could be talking about Moore or the current administration. Thats whats truly maddening about this thread.

No, I don't give a fuck about either one of them, personally. I do get pretty annoyed when people take this stuff as gospel, though. [no pun intended.]

How brilliantly perceptive of you to notice the duality of my point. Isn't that EXACTLY what I said in the next line? [which you failed to copy down.]

THAT'S THE POINT.

**AKPogue** · 06-01-2006, 09:56 AM

Originally Posted by PNWbrit

If I'd carried away the bodies of civilians killed in Haditha would that give me the right to comment? or how about if I was a "hardened warrior" who just happened to fight against the U.S. occupation?

Since when did being in the military become the sole qualification to have a legitimate view about the actions of the government or armed forces?

You still don't get it. Oh I forgot you are making an informed judgement on something that you have learned about from I am sure first hand sources. Must be nice to be able to judge someone from the comfort of your computer screen and condemn them rather than even putting in any thought into the subject.

**AKPogue** · 06-01-2006, 09:59 AM

If any of you guys are somewhat curious at all to what the thought process is of someone who is in an extreme stress situation is going through try reading these 2 books both by the same author.
On Killing
On Combat
by Dave Grossman

**cj001f** · 06-01-2006, 10:08 AM

Originally Posted by BLOOD SWEAT STEEL

:scratches head: Funny, isn't that the EXACT same thing you accuse our own president of?

[You don't need to answer that.]

That you can't differentiate between a public servant and an entertainer really is difficult to answer.

BLOOD SWEAT STEEL · 06-01-2006, 10:13 AM

Originally Posted by cj001f

That you can't differentiate between a public servant and an entertainer really is difficult to answer.

I have no problem doing so. What's tough to answer is why you expect truth in politics, but not in journalism......

Or is it just that convenient political posturing again....

**MeatPuppet** · 06-01-2006, 10:13 AM

Originally Posted by AKPogue

If any of you guys are somewhat curious at all to what the thought process is of someone who is in an extreme stress situation is going through try reading these 2 books both by the same author.
On Killing
On Combat
by Dave Grossman

I've read On Killing, very enlightening. I didn't know he had another one. Thanks.

**AKPogue** · 06-01-2006, 10:18 AM

Originally Posted by MeatPuppet

I've read On Killing, very enlightening. I didn't know he had another one. Thanks.

It came out last year and is a must read for anyone who is going over there or knows someone over there.

**cj001f** · 06-01-2006, 10:24 AM

Originally Posted by BLOOD SWEAT STEEL

I have no problem doing so.

Ahh, just convenient posturing, par for the course. I don't expect truth (or think it possible) from anyone - but as the boss of politicians I demand them to be as close as possible to my version.

**TJ.Brk** · 06-01-2006, 10:31 AM

Originally Posted by bdog

TJ, when Carter was president Osama was not a terrorist. Rather he was being financed and supported by the CIA in his work with the Afgani resistance to the soviet presence in Afganistan. It was not until the first Gulf war when George H W Bush was president that Osama turned his efforts to terrorism against the US. His major objection was continued American military presence in Saudi Arabia, his home land after the gulf war action ended. There are few similarities between Carter and the Bush family.

Actually the Bin Laden family has donated money to Jimmy Carters center even as late as 2001. I was just pointing out that Moore went to great lengths in his film talking about how the Bush's got money from the Bin Laden family, when his buddy Jimmy was getting money at the same time and he never mentioned that.

Now Jimmy has done alot of great things since he got out of office. But Moore only uses things to make his point, while leaving out other points that will contradict what his message is. He is just another political biased opperative.

BLOOD SWEAT STEEL · 06-01-2006, 10:32 AM

Originally Posted by cj001f

Ahh, just convenient posturing, par for the course. I don't expect truth (or think it possible) from anyone - but as the boss of politicians I demand them to be as close as possible to my version.

**whatcomridaz** · 06-01-2006, 10:32 AM

Originally Posted by bdog

TJ, when Carter was president Osama was not a terrorist. Rather he was being financed and supported by the CIA in his work with the Afgani resistance to the soviet presence in Afganistan. It was not until the first Gulf war when George H W Bush was president that Osama turned his efforts to terrorism against the US. His major objection was continued American military presence in Saudi Arabia, his home land after the gulf war action ended. There are few similarities between Carter and the Bush family.

One Huge similarity Carter was/is even more useless than the Bushies although with these new found lows that one is almost debatable

At least GW senior isn't monday morning Qbing. The best part of Carter slid down his Mammy's ass crack and ended up as a stain on the mattress.

One other very notable similarity Carter achieved as noted by Henry Kissinger "the worst relations with our allies, the worst relations with our adversaries, and the most serious upheavals in the developing world since the end of the Second World War."

Edit to add as president qualification, no doubt Jimmy has been far more effective as an ex-president than he ever was as president. and Kissinger quote

**MassLiberal** · 06-01-2006, 10:35 AM

Originally Posted by whatcomridaz

One Huge similarity Carter was/is even more useless than the Bushies although with these new found lows that one is almost debatable

At least GW senior isn't monday morning Qbing. The best part of Carter slid down his Mammy's ass crack and ended up as a stain on the mattress.

You sir, are an idiot.

Jimmy Carter was an ineffective president, but his work following the presidency is nothing short of commendable.

**Cono Este** · 06-01-2006, 10:43 AM

Originally Posted by MassLiberal

I'm calling bullshit on this experience. First off this was a story circulated in the right wing blogosphere, and I highly doubt this happened many times., or that you were the source of this story.

Second of all , Moore's films are opinion pieces. If you can't figure out something on your own, or if you take everything he says hook line and sinker, then you are just as dumb as those who trumpeted the administrations line in the run up to the Iraq War.

Are you kidding me? This is what your YOU PEOPLE does not get. Maybe nobody stood up and cheered at the Manhattan Cineplex, but people all around the world did. That I promise you.

The last several yrs I will admit that our country has incurred some form of damage to it. But one form of that damage has been the hate and propaganda spewed by people like Moore. And it is as bad as the rest.

So you enlist in the Army to defend your country, you end up losing your arms and some piece of shit capitalizes on it to make money. I hope he see's some of it.

**DaveTV** · 06-01-2006, 10:43 AM

We all have the right to comment. Personally, I don't fault these guys on an individual basis, as I don't know how I would react in a similar situation. What bugs me is that our leaders appeared to have learned NOTHING from Viet Nam, when insurgents are mixed in with the populous and you cannot distinguish the "enemy", it puts the troops in a very difficult and stressful spot. The insurgency did however learn from the 'Nam, you cannot fight the US Military head-on, rather adopt the guerrilla hit-and-run strategy. We also did not learn that once that population sees you as foreign invaders and is not with you, you are all done. Yet we slog forward.

**3pin** · 06-01-2006, 10:44 AM

Originally Posted by Summit

Dex: Just off the top of my mind not having seen these movies in years...

5. In Farenheit 9/11, while filming the Saudi embassy, Moore leads the viewer to think that the Secret Service "mysteriously" was following their film crew and affording special protection to the Saudis. "What were they doing there?" He relies on ignorance not to know that the Secret Service is charged with all embassy security!

Actually, I don't think the Secret Service is charged with any embassy security, only the security of visiting dignitaries, which would be heads of state, not the embassy or its personnel. I can't remember what it's called, but there's a separate group that does diplomatic protection.