Good story about that wonderful Moore guy!

[RootSkier]

Oooh. I got a good idea, Beavis. Let's get all mad at Michael Moore for LYING about such a great and honest administration.

If that's not retarded, I don't know what is.

[The AD]

Yeah, but he's fat...don't you realize that Dexter?

[TJ.Brk]

Michael Moore has infinitely more integrity that Bush, Rove, Cheney, Rumsfeld, and the rest of warmongering Halliburton crew.

Yep gotta love it how he was buddying it up with the Honorable ex-President Jimmy Carter at the last Democratic convention. The same ex-Pres that it comes to find out took even more money from the Bin Laden family than either Bush did. You know the same main topic that Moore used in his film F911 to try and swing a Presidential election while beating the topic it to death for months trying to manufacture some way to keep it in the headlines. Seriously Dex when are you going to realize that Moore is just as bad of a money grubbing attention whore as anybody else and should not even be taken somewhat seriously.

I 'm posting this just to show hypocricy in action, and how each side pulls the same stupid BS. And you wonder why I keep voting for Buggs Bunny for President.

[Village Idiot]

Not only that, the people labeling Moore a propagandist usually have nothing to back up the claim (see the above article). Nearly everything Moore has ever stated in print or film has been exactly right, and that's what his opponents actually find so upsetting. It's disappointing that their campaign against him has found traction among some people in the middle, who swallow the untrue conservative claims.
That supporters of this administration point fingers at Moore for supposedly distorting the truth is beyond hilarious.

Toolbox post preservation.

Hey Rufus, let's go watch that 9-11 conspiracy video again. We know that's "exactly right" too!!!

[Pura Vida]

Regardless if you agree with Moore or not, one thing is clear, from a filmmaker’s standpoint these are propaganda films and not "documentaries." It's interesting that people are so quick to dispute the propaganda claim. Any informed viewer can see that Moore twists things, edits, and uses comments made out of their original context. While I share much of the same beliefs and concerns as Moore, it scares me how much people love to defend this guy.

[summit]

Dex: Just off the top of my mind not having seen these movies in years...

1. Opening scene of Bowling where the gun is delivered at the bank was completely staged at Moore's request. Moore doesn't mention this and leads the viewer to think it is the normal way business is handled.

2. Moore depicts the NRA gun rally in Denver as a rushed event made to rally support immediatly after Columbine. He doesn't mention that it was the preplanned yearly meeting and was vastly scaled back...

3. Moore then bringsi n quotes made by Heston in a different state months later as though they were made in Denver to incite people over the shootings. However Heston was wearing different colored shirts in the two speeches so in order to confuse the viewer he intercuts a picture of a billboard so that we won't notice the shirt going from white to offwhite pink.

4. Moore, during his harassment of Heston at his household, fails to mention that Heston's mind is mostly gone to Alzheimers as Moore blasts him with leading questions.

------

Irrelevant note: I still remember the sick feeling in my stomach during Bowling... they showed the footage of the second plane hitting the WTC... and someone stood up in the theater and cheered.

------

5. In Farenheit 9/11, while filming the Saudi embassy, Moore leads the viewer to think that the Secret Service "mysteriously" was following their film crew and affording special protection to the Saudis. "What were they doing there?" He relies on ignorance not to know that the Secret Service is charged with all embassy security!

6. This amputee is not the only out of context quote. The state trooper was given a false pretext for the cameras and lead on.

I could go on... and the web has detailed lists too...

Moore cherrypicks his facts, takes things out of context to twist them to his meaning rather than their true meaning, he misleads, he uses dishonest editing to confuse and distort etc. He is a propoganda artist and a very skilled one.

You may agree with his end message... but how can you condone the sleeze used to do so? Surely if your case is strong you needn't resort to propoganda and lies... but it gets Moore more attention and money.

Oooh. I got a good idea, Beavis. Let's get all mad at Michael Moore for LYING about such a great and honest administration.

If that's not retarded, I don't know what is.

"Bush is bad so that makes it OK for Moore to lie."

BLINDINGLY BRILLIANT!

"Further moore, it makes it OK to lie and say Moore is a stand up guy because I agree with his politics... the end justifies the means."

It must be that... or you are too blind to see Moore for what he is.

[edg]

Man with axe to grind makes biased film, shock!

WHAT DID YOU FUCKING EXPECT? Only a moron would take Moore's films without a pinch of salt, in the same way that only a moron wouldn't do so with the Bush admin. All this bullshitting about which side is worse is futile - they're both shrewd and manipulative.

edg

[klar]

Moores over-the-top conspiracy BS is aimed at the uninformed Americans...he's learned well from Rove's "the sheep will eat anything" strategy.

and this is the point exactly. i very much doubt an informed individual with well thought out political views of whatever nature would be swayed to vote one way or another after seeing one of moore's films, much as they would judge a political party by its actions and agenda rather than catchy phrases in press statements and interviews. with the "uninformed americans" the propaganda issued by both sides is certainly more effective and although it would be very admirable if one side refrained from trying to manipulate public opinion it would also be rather stupid as i daresay we all tend to be more interested in a juicy story with nice pictures than in plain old boring "truth".

if we can't have absolute integrity in journalism and politics, which we obviously can't, i would rather have both sides using blatant propaganda, than one side selling propaganda as fact and being believed with no one to gainsay them.

i agree with edg.

[RootSkier]

"Bush is bad so that makes it OK for Moore to lie."

BLINDINGLY BRILLIANT!

"Further moore, it makes it OK to lie and say Moore is a stand up guy because I agree with his politics... the end justifies the means."

It must be that... or you are too blind to see Moore for what he is.

Well, FWIW, I think he is obnoxious and pretty much a scumbag, but I can't really get enraged about it. He is, first and foremost, an entertainer. I never even saw F911.

I prefer to save my rage for those fuckballs in the Whitehouse and their ill conceived notions and baldfaced lies.

[MassLiberal]

Irrelevant note: I still remember the sick feeling in my stomach during Bowling... they showed the footage of the second plane hitting the WTC... and someone stood up in the theater and cheered.

I'm calling bullshit on this experience. First off this was a story circulated in the right wing blogosphere, and I highly doubt this happened many times., or that you were the source of this story.

Second of all , Moore's films are opinion pieces. If you can't figure out something on your own, or if you take everything he says hook line and sinker, then you are just as dumb as those who trumpeted the administrations line in the run up to the Iraq War.

[snow_slider]

Moore cherrypicks his facts, takes things out of context to twist them to his meaning rather than their true meaning, he misleads...

The exact same could be said of Bush. Remind me again, which one's actions (Bush or Moore) caused thousands of US casualties and cost the US taxpayers hundreds of billions of dollars? Oh yeah, that's right...Moore's the bad guy....

[DaveTV]

Hey SUMMIT, how is that new "Dixie Chicks" CD? Pretty good, huh?

[Benny Profane]

What's to worry about here? Moore must be pretty bad at what he does if he's a propagandist, as some claim here, because 85% of the soldiers in Iraq, and many, many civilians, still beleive that Saddam Hussein had a direct connection to 911. And democracy is gaining a strong foothold in the middle east, and Mexicans are invading our great country with their filthy habits amd ugly language. And, oh yeah, Mission Acccomplished.

This lawsuit tells me two things - Moore is coming out with a new movie, and it's CAMPAIGN TIME.

[mr_gyptian]

Hey SUMMIT, how is that new "Dixie Chicks" CD? Pretty good, huh?

again, sweet work with the emoticon. you are an artiste.

anywho, summit's been a real bag man for the Bushies for years. I think you've finally got him.

[bdog]

Yep gotta love it how he was buddying it up with the Honorable ex-President Jimmy Carter at the last Democratic convention. The same ex-Pres that it comes to find out took even more money from the Bin Laden family than either Bush did.

TJ, when Carter was president Osama was not a terrorist. Rather he was being financed and supported by the CIA in his work with the Afgani resistance to the soviet presence in Afganistan. It was not until the first Gulf war when George H W Bush was president that Osama turned his efforts to terrorism against the US. His major objection was continued American military presence in Saudi Arabia, his home land after the gulf war action ended. There are few similarities between Carter and the Bush family.

[lemon boy]

The thing that absolutely fucking cracks me up about right wing opposition to BFC is that Moore hardly takes on the issue of guns and the gun nut culture and instead the main thrust of the ENTIRE FUCKING MOVIE is that great right wing boogieman the media. The righties should be standing with Moore on BFC.

Moore is a liberal version of the "controvertialist" tradition that is ususally pretty right wing. Not really different than Savage, Rush et al so please save us the right wing moral indignation please he isn't that big a deal.

[Benny Profane]

There are few similarities between Carter and the Bush family.

Except that the drunk ner' do well in the Bush family made it to the White House for 8 years.

Damn, I just thought of a flip flop here. Bush Beer. I'd buy it.

[bdog]

Except that the drunk ner' do well in the Bush family made it to the White House for 8 years.

Damn, I just thought of a flip flop here. Bush Beer. I'd buy it.

That is a great point, sad but true. Bush Beer ... yeah I like the idea, I think it's a winner.

[Benny Profane]

Bush Beer ... yeah I like the idea, I think it's a winner.

Let's start a label design contest! NSFW, here we come!

[The AD]

While I share much of the same beliefs and concerns as Moore, it scares me how much people love to defend this guy.

I only defend his right to make whatever kind of movie he damn well wants to make.

[leroy jenkins]

However Heston was wearing different colored shirts in the two speeches so in order to confuse the viewer he intercuts a picture of a billboard so that we won't notice the shirt going from white to offwhite pink.

Dude this is how I know everything you say is bullshit. We all know Heston would never wear a pink shirt.

[AKPogue]

Marines gone wild in Haditha,

Before you get on your high horse a member of my family was killed in Gulf War 1 and another is currently serving in Afghanistan.

So this makes it okay to judge something you know absolutely nothing about! A couple of articles and you are an expert at what happened here. When was the last time you got shot at, had mortars blown up around you, carried your buddies away in a body bag, or saw the humvee in front of you get blown the fuck up?

Who the hell are you you self righteous prick?

The Marines there may or may not have done the wrong thing there but you have no place to judge them. That is for the investigators to find out. But of course I am probably wrong about you because you are probably a hardened warrior who makes absolutely the right decisions when under the gun!

I guess you feel like because you had a family member die in a war you know what a war is like. Well until you have personally been in one you don't know shit!

[BLOOD SWEAT STEEL]

So this makes it okay to judge something you know absolutely nothing about! A couple of articles and you are an expert at what happened here. When was the last time you got shot at, had mortars blown up around you, carried your buddies away in a body bag, or saw the humvee in front of you get blown the fuck up?

Who the hell are you you self righteous prick?

The Marines there may or may not have done the wrong thing there but you have no place to judge them. That is for the investigators to find out. But of course I am probably wrong about you because you are probably a hardened warrior who makes absolutely the right decisions when under the gun!

I guess you feel like because you had a family member die in a war you know what a war is like. Well until you have personally been in one you don't know shit!

How dare you! Duh..he knows all about war [by proxy] and thus, his opinion carries far more weight than that of someone who is just a lowly cnn-watching JONG war-gaper. .....

....As far as the Moore supporters touting his "work" as honest and intelligent, well, ....

It's just convenient for some of you to plug him because his lies happen to be congruent with your political viewpoints, not because they're accurate portrayals of truth. To disagree with that is nothing more than pure partisan opportunism. Bottom line is - justifying the crooked behavior of one [or a few] with more lies and half-truths is just ridiculous, childish, and ignorant. Yes, he may be a "filmmaker" or "entertainer," but it's different when fictitious material is intentionally portrayed as fact and blatantly intended to manipulate the accuracy of real events.

[seatosky]

Regardless if you agree with Moore or not, one thing is clear, from a filmmaker’s standpoint these are propaganda films and not "documentaries." It's interesting that people are so quick to dispute the propaganda claim. Any informed viewer can see that Moore twists things, edits, and uses comments made out of their original context. While I share much of the same beliefs and concerns as Moore, it scares me how much people love to defend this guy.

Has he ever claimed to make 'documentaries'? Do other filmmakers who DO claim to make documentaries get the same criticism for doing the same things?

[BLOOD SWEAT STEEL]

Has he ever claimed to make 'documentaries'? Do other filmmakers who DO claim to make documentaries get the same criticism for doing the same things?

Quick search of his website

http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache...s&ct=clnk&cd=1

reveals...

....The only problem with my desire to get this movie in front of as many Americans as possible is that, should it air on TV, I will NOT be eligible to submit "Fahrenheit 9/11" for Academy Award consideration for Best Documentary. Academy rules forbid the airing of a documentary on television within nine months of its theatrical release (fiction films do not have the same restriction).

Although I have no assurance from our home video distributor that they would allow a one-time television broadcast -- and the chances are they probably won't -- I have decided it is more important to take that risk and hope against hope that I can persuade someone to put it on TV, even if it's the night before the election.

Therefore, I have decided not to submit "Fahrenheit 9/11" for consideration for the Best Documentary Oscar. If there is even the remotest of chances that I can get this film seen by a few million more Americans before election day, then that is more important to me than winning another documentary Oscar. I have already won a Best Documentary statue. Having a second one would be nice, but not as nice as getting this country back in the hands of the majority.

The deadline to submit the film for the documentary Oscar was last Wednesday. I told my crew who worked on the film, let's let someone else have that Oscar. We have already helped to ignite the biggest year ever for nonfiction films. Last week, 1 out of every 5 films playing in movie theaters across America was a documentary! That is simply unheard of. There have been so many great nonfiction films this year, why not step aside and share what we have with someone else? Remove the 800-pound gorilla from that Oscar category and let the five films who get nominated have all the attention they deserve (instead of the focus being on a film that has already had more than its share of attention).

I've read a lot about "Fahrenheit" being a "sure bet" for the documentary Oscar this year. I don't believe anything is truly a "sure bet." And, in the end, I think sometimes it's good for your soul to give up something everyone says is so easily yours (ask Olympic swimmer Michael Phelps why he gave up his spot in the last race to someone else equally deserving, and you'll know what I am talking about)....

Yours,

Michael Moore
mmflint@aol.com

P.S. If you want to read my dispatches for USA Today from inside the Republican Convention, go to www.michaelmoore.com

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