Why SKI magazine rules (a Powder Magazine criticism)

[teledave]

My thoughts on SKI, predating this thread.

http://forum.powdermag.com/forum/sho...e=0#Post104466

[mnflyfish]

This is an even bigger problem for us at Couloir... the prime backcountry season is March and April, and at that point our key retailers (even the core ones) are already moving out the ski gear and setting up for biking and climbing.

For the whole industry, it's a difficult circle to crack, but Bdog is onto something with introducing people to the sport. Most people getting into skiing and snowboarding don't want to stand out in the cold and get soaked with snow and pelted by driving wind. Think about how much more enjoyable spring skiing is for a beginner... in conditions and weather. If you could keep that flow of traffic up to the ski areas through April and May, it'd be a lot easier for resorts (like Kirkwood, Heavenly, Mt Rose in Tahoe) to keep the lifts running, too.

Hey, a little off topic, but I love your mag. I picked it up while on vacation in of all places, Florida. Made the trip with the kids to see the mouse a little easier to take.

In response to the guy that wrote he get's Ski of free and... I too get it free and that's the only way it would end up at my house. It used to be a great mag, but it's turned into Golf Digest (same company I believe) with the dream houses etc. The only article in this spring issue I found useful was the review on the Toyota FJ Cruiser, which I'm leaning towards putting in my driveway. Even that lacked any good stats, they said it guzzled gas but negliectied to include the mileage stats, which frankly are pretty good in comparison to my current Exploder (yes I mispelled it on purpose, worst vehicle I've ever owned, 2002 model). The Toy gets 19/21 and the Ford get 15/19. I average something like 17mpg, thank god I only drive 6 miles round trip to work.

Good Luck,
Jay

[mtbakerskier]

The Snowboard Journal blows Frequency away. Much less goth.

chick it out, bra.

WTF are you talking about??? HAVE YOU EVER READ FREQUENCY??????

[KevinDineen]

Dipstick, what was on the cover of that SKI magazine you mention? That's right, a mountain bike. So in that regard, we do 8 summer issues. We call them BIKE.

Believe me, our parent company would love it if we could sell a summer issue. (personally I couldn't care less, as that summer issue would cut into my march and april ski time) We can't. Our circ is about a quarter of SKI's, and that's all the car and real estate companies look for. We wish they would look at the quality of the publication, but all they're concerned about is number of eyeballs. And at 96 pages, I'm not sure the summer issue of SKI is actually making any money, either.

[irul&ublo]

And I'll bet you're not bitching on that stank day in August (or Sepetmber, or October, or January of the next year...it'll arrive eventually)when you stroll out to the mailbox in flops and get your buyer's guide.

...........................

[irul&ublo]

the true innovation of wifi.

with the onset of electronic court filing, i have literally filed court documents while commenting out of my ass.

That's something new? I've been pulling stuff out of my ass and filing it for years.

[Plakespear]

Number of NSR ads in Feb 2006 Powder (not including classified/marketplace): 8


Breakdown:
1 Nissan (who sponsor TGR and Warren Miller, and TGR has produced commercials for)
2 Honda
1 Suzuki
1 Boost Mobile (Which seems to have a partnership with Powder, FUEL TV, and ESPN)
1 Paul Mitchell Hair products
1 American Express (may be SR, it was for special ski delas for cardholders)
1 Viosport (Although it was for helmet cams some of us use).

So it's arguable that it's actually 4 NSR ads. Plus the Suzuki ad and one Honda ad had references to skiing.

I don't have an issue of SKI handy, but I fo have the April 2006 Outside. How many non-outdoor sportss ads are in there?

15- 8 car ads, 2 bank/credit card ads, 2 for electronics (not counting companies like Garmin or Suunto), 2 for booze, and 1 for Wolverine work boots. I was lenient in my choices, I could have included Samsonite Luggage, The Dicovery Channel, and OLN ads as well.

[Dexter Rutecki]

that summer issue would cut into my march and april ski time

And the truth comes out.

I can't believe dipstik needs this stuff explained to him--not to mention it's been explained many times over the years on this (and the previous) forum.

[cj001f]

I can't believe dipstik needs this stuff explained to him--not to mention it's been explained many times over the years on this (and the previous) forum.

You can't believe a dipstick doesn't get it?

[Dexter Rutecki]

OK, you win this round.

[alpinepronghorn]

If you're not in the ad business, it can be hard to believe how seasonal the business is. There are a couple things to keep in mind: first, most of the endemic advertisers (those whose products directly relate to the content) are small, with small budgets that are spent carefully and in direct proportion to the sales season. On the other hand, the non-endemics really require massive circulations to be interested. And a magazine needs both to survive; Powder's not going to be able to pick up more non-endemic car or booze or financial services ads to make up for the ski advertisers taking a summer break; if they're not interested in winter, what makes you think they're going to sign on for summer?

Even at Alpinist, where our sport is less seasonal (people climb year round) the summer is still a hard time to get ads. Magazines just don't do as well in the summer: people just don't read as much then. So Powder suffers from having their off-season line up with the magazine off-season; putting out a summer issue, while certainly not impossible, is thus faced with a number of serious obstacles they can't do anything about.

In terms of content, its an unhappy fact that the more core you are, the smaller your audience will be. Powder serves a niche market; we all are not the average ski audience, and there just aren't that many of us.

Now, one interesting example of a ski mag that puts out a summer issue is Fluid, the french photomag that blows every US mag out of the water. (And incidentally they are part of a large, primemedia like conglomerate) They put out 6 issues a year, one every other month. 3 are ski issues, one is a 'snow' issue (which I guess focuses on snowboarding) and then they put out 2 surf issues. That way they replace thier endemics with the season. It's a pretty kick-as mag; even if you don't read french, the quality of the photos and the production values are unbelievable. Maybe Poweder could put out a couple mags on their summer hobbies? Would cut into the summer vacation, though...

[bdog]

Maybe Poweder could put out a couple mags on their summer hobbies? Would cut into the summer vacation, though...

Seems to me Primedia owns Surfer and Climbing. Both of those mags were better before Primedia took over ownership, but then I have been reading Surfer since the early days when it was owned and published by Peterson Publishing (do they even exist anymore?).

Not that there isn't room for improvement at Powder, but it is a damn good magazine. If the content and photo quality were to be equal to say Alpinist, no doubt the cost to the buyer would be similar. I don't know that I want to pay that price for two publications, one is hard enough to justify.

[Meadow Skipper]

... POWDER is the only mag core enough to have editors that actualy read and contribute to this site.

Heh. Or maybe not:

This is an even bigger problem for us at Couloir...

Couloir: core enough.

[KevinDineen]

I have been reading Surfer since the early days when it was owned and published by Peterson Publishing (do they even exist anymore?).

Petersen was the beginning of the downslide for all our titles. The original group was a small independent known as Surfer Publications. Petersen bought Surfer (and the Surfing Group) around 1998, and immediately brought down the paper quality to try to save more money. Emap then ate Petersen, and Primedia ate Emap.

[bdog]

Petersen was the beginning of the downslide for all our titles. The original group was a small independent known as Surfer Publications. Petersen bought Surfer (and the Surfing Group) around 1998, and immediately brought down the paper quality to try to save more money. Emap then ate Petersen, and Primedia ate Emap.

Really. I was reading Surfer in the 60's and I was sure it was published by Peterson then. Guess not. Must be "Old Timers Disease" kicking in and effecting my memory ... or maybe it's just all the drugs Thanks for the info KD.

[crashnburn'd]

I wish Powder had more articles on real estate.

[Lynx]

Number of NSR ads in Feb 2006 Powder (not including classified/marketplace): 8


Breakdown:
1 Nissan (who sponsor TGR and Warren Miller, and TGR has produced commercials for)
2 Honda
1 Suzuki
1 Boost Mobile (Which seems to have a partnership with Powder, FUEL TV, and ESPN)
1 Paul Mitchell Hair products
1 American Express (may be SR, it was for special ski delas for cardholders)
1 Viosport (Although it was for helmet cams some of us use).

So it's arguable that it's actually 4 NSR ads. Plus the Suzuki ad and one Honda ad had references to skiing.

Paul Mittchel, while it seems like an odd sponsor for ski events, they sponsor alot of ski comps. They have been supporting the ski industry for a long time so you -could- label that as ski related. c'mon, the "lifestyle in lifestyle sports"

[mtbakerskier]

Heh. Or maybe not:

Couloir: core enough.

Fair enough, However I was thinking more along the lines, of the big titles.

[Joey Joe Joe Junior Shabadoo]

If you're not in the ad business, it can be hard to believe how seasonal the business is. There are a couple things to keep in mind: first, most of the endemic advertisers (those whose products directly relate to the content) are small, with small budgets that are spent carefully and in direct proportion to the sales season. On the other hand, the non-endemics really require massive circulations to be interested. And a magazine needs both to survive; Powder's not going to be able to pick up more non-endemic car or booze, financial services ads to make up for the ski advertisers taking a summer break; if they're not interested in winter, what makes you think they're going to sign on for summer?

Even at Alpinist, where our sport is less seasonal (people climb year round) the summer is still a hard time to get ads. Magazines just don't do as well in the summer: people just don't read as much then. So Powder suffers from having their off-season line up with the magazine off-season; putting out a summer issue, while certainly not impossible, is thus faced with a number of serious obstacles they can't do anything about.

100% correct. I worked at a daily newspaper in Boulder after college(CO Daily for you Boulder mags) and even as a daily newspaper summer issues where way smaller and advertisers weren't as interested and other daily papers were the same deal. During the summer we came up with all kinds of different "special issues" so we could pull more advertisers and charge more for summer rates.

[Beaver]

Beav- uh, Alta shuts down mid april every year as well, so does Brighton. And how does April = February?

Sorry, I was drunk. I ment mid March, so basically they are thinking about it in February.

[BushwackerinPA]

I wish Powder had more articles on real estate.

2345678

[splat]

OK. In order to evaluate your claims, dipstik, I breezed the SKI magazine this am during my special bodily relief alone time. That fucking waste of paper couldn't even get me through a single crap session. But the stacks of Powders on the holy grail of porcelain will guarantee me happy thoughts all the way until August as I crack the vertical smile over lac twalet. How you could hang here and love SKI is a dichotomy of epicski proportions.

[The Dad]

Ski Magazine bills itself as "The Magazine of the Ski Life." It's a lifestyle magazine, not a skiing magazine.

Skiing Magazine's tagline is "Go Bigger / Live Better."

Both are published by the same company, Mountain Sports Media. They are targeted towards different markets, i.e., different advertisers.

I get both free -- who remembers why? -- and wouldn't be likely to pay money for either. But Skiing has some useful information of a non-lifestyle bent, including a decent buyer's guide. EDIT TO ADD: And in fact, the first item on their website right now is a preview of TGR's Anomaly, and they've posted a guide to Kirkwood's Cirque.

The best explanation of magazine economics I've ever read was published in the penultimate issue of Hi-Fi Heretic, just before it went under for lack of ads. The editor wrote a long piece that explained very clearly that the magazine industry, like most industries, entails selling a product to a purchasing public. You, the reader, probably think that the product is the magazine you're holding in your hands, and that you are a member of the purchasing public. That's dead wrong -- the real product is the person holding the magazine, and the real purchasing public is the advertisers.

[KevinDineen]

the real product is the person holding the magazine, and the real purchasing public is the advertisers.

This is true, and this explains why you get Ski and Skiing for free. The problem with that model is, if it's free, how do you convince the advertisers the people they are selling are actually reading the magazine? Non-endemics don't care, because their advertising is handled by agencies who merely need to justify their buys, not actually sell more product. I've always contended that our readership drinks ten times more than Ski's. Problem is the agency for Jack Daniels couldn't care less.

[HotTate]

I got a great idea! Let Hottate be guest editor for an Issue! we'll call it the "hater issue" HATE HATE HATE