Real Estate Crash thread

**skideeppow** · 10-15-2010, 08:49 AM

Thanks ^^
will do

is he out of PC?

**4matic** · 10-19-2010, 12:41 PM

Pimco wants their money back. That's not good..

SAN FRANCISCO (MarketWatch) -- A bondholders' group is seeking to force Bank of America Corp. /quotes/comstock/13*!bac/quotes/nls/bac (BAC 11.99, -0.35, -2.84%) to buy back some $47 billion in bad mortgages packaged by Countrywide Financial Corp., according to a published report Tuesday. Bloomberg News, citing unnamed people familiar with the matter, reported that Pacific Investment Management Co., BlackRock Inc. /quotes/comstock/13*!blk/quotes/nls/blk (BLK 174.45, -2.05, -1.16%) , and the Federal Reserve Bank of New York wrote to Bank of America and Bank of New York Mellon Corp., the debt's trustee, /quotes/comstock/13*!bk/quotes/nls/bk (BK 26.16, -0.46, -1.73%) faulting Countrywide for not servicing the loans properly. Bank of America acquired Countrywide in 2008. Financial stocks fell in recent trading, with Bank of America were down more than 2%

**Benny Profane** · 10-19-2010, 03:41 PM

Oh, no, it's OK. The CEO of BofA said so this morning. No problemo. They went through the paperwork and everything was/is cool. Just a little snafu. The foreclosure express will leave the station soon. You know, it was those damn deadbeats who are to blame, after all. No payments, no house, right? It's only fair, right?

**Moeghoul** · 10-19-2010, 03:46 PM

Originally Posted by 4matic

Pimco wants their money back. That's not good..

SAN FRANCISCO (MarketWatch) -- A bondholders' group is seeking to force Bank of America Corp. /quotes/comstock/13*!bac/quotes/nls/bac (BAC 11.99, -0.35, -2.84%) to buy back some $47 billion in bad mortgages packaged by Countrywide Financial Corp., according to a published report Tuesday. Bloomberg News, citing unnamed people familiar with the matter, reported that Pacific Investment Management Co., BlackRock Inc. /quotes/comstock/13*!blk/quotes/nls/blk (BLK 174.45, -2.05, -1.16%) , and the Federal Reserve Bank of New York wrote to Bank of America and Bank of New York Mellon Corp., the debt's trustee, /quotes/comstock/13*!bk/quotes/nls/bk (BK 26.16, -0.46, -1.73%) faulting Countrywide for not servicing the loans properly. Bank of America acquired Countrywide in 2008. Financial stocks fell in recent trading, with Bank of America were down more than 2%

And the massive shitball keeps getting bigger...........

**Benny Profane** · 10-19-2010, 04:21 PM

This is a great source of info about this shitball:

http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/

**Mazderati** · 10-19-2010, 06:38 PM

Some of the local foreclosed properties have been pulled from the market due to robo signing. I'm not sure if this is an umbrella lock on all foreclosures in the area or pertains to specific properties. From what I've read, the pulled properties may not be available for sale until after the New Year, and that is only if the previous owners don't litigate.

**Stu Gotz** · 10-19-2010, 07:38 PM

Originally Posted by 4matic

Pimco wants their money back. That's not good.

And PIMCO shows it cards.

I wonder what people where thinking when PIMCO was hoovering up the securities at a big discount? Crafty mofo's.

These guys never had any intention of holding these bonds. It's almost like the anti-Paulson trade. Taking on the worst mortgage securities knowing full well that the worse the structuring, the higher the probability that the banks would have to buy back large swaths of their own cooking.

It truly was going to take someone the size of a PIMCO to tell the banks to suck it. Props to Gross.

**4matic** · 10-19-2010, 09:04 PM

The Countywide loans should be part of TARP. BAC is a bad bank but the Countrywide loans are really a federal problem. A law to streamline the foreclosure process on deliquent loans as well as the whole title system should be streamlined...imo.

**meatdrink9** · 10-19-2010, 09:12 PM

SDP, yes out of PC.

Just as a note of what's been going on out this way. We've tried to sell our house in Suburbia for a few months now. Numerous price reductions. Numerous showings. No offers. I finally listed it for rent last night. Phone rang off the hook all day and rented it this afternoon. The people wanted to do all the paperwork on the spot as to "not lose another one". Great credit scores and nice people.

Also of note, my mom just flipped a house. She paid 64K and sold it for 90K. Sank roughly 5K in remodel. Total turn time of 3 months close to close. Would have been 2 months, but the first buyer's financing fell through. I wouldn't normally recommend a flip in this climate, but this on house it made sense and worked well. It could have worked as a rental too which is why we approached the deal.

We just finished the remodel of two floors of our new (105 year old) house. I'll try to post up some more photos soon. I'm beyond stoked.

**Nobody Famous** · 10-20-2010, 05:58 AM

Originally Posted by Benny Profane

This is a great source of info about this shitball:

http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/

As is this: http://www.calculatedriskblog.com/

**djspookman** · 10-20-2010, 06:29 AM

add me to the list.. just got declined for a short sale of my home that we've been trying to sell for a year and a half now, for 45k less than I owe. Dumped 20k into the house over the past 3.5 years, have lots of lost income and now have 2 small children. Bank still says no, even though I haven't paid my mort for almost 2 months now. Eating PB&J and ramen noodle all the time sucks!

Anyone interested in a sweet little house in downtown Keene, NH? 165k.

**Benny Profane** · 10-20-2010, 07:39 AM

Originally Posted by 4matic

A law to streamline the foreclosure process on deliquent loans as well as the whole title system should be streamlined...imo.

Seems to me that we are now discovering (collectively - many have known about this problem for some time) that a little streamlining is what got us into this mess in the first place. Besides, this is a state's rights issue - the Feds have no jurisdiction over local property rights. If they attempt to rewrite the laws, they are changing centuries old traditions in property rights. Not that I wouldn't be surprised that it would be attempted by the banking oligarchy.

**liv2ski** · 10-20-2010, 08:26 AM

Originally Posted by Benny Profane

Seems to me that we are now discovering (collectively - many have known about this problem for some time) that a little streamlining is what got us into this mess in the first place.

Benny, all the pissing and moaning going on over "show me the Note", "how could you have reviewed all the documents in two minutes", etc, is pure bullshit IMO. All the parties know a deal was reached at closing. The fucking borrower was given a copy of the note and deed at that time to refer back to. The process should be simplified to, you go three payments down, we send you a notice to get caught up in the next 90 days or the bank will foreclose on your ass, period. Property is immediately listed and someone gets a good deal. No more holding foreclosures off the banks books or in shadow inventory. This country needs to get this mess behind us, not stretch it out with more horse shit legal wrangling. end rant

**Benny Profane** · 10-20-2010, 04:32 PM

Originally Posted by liv2ski

Benny, all the pissing and moaning going on over "show me the Note", "how could you have reviewed all the documents in two minutes", etc, is pure bullshit IMO. All the parties know a deal was reached at closing. The fucking borrower was given a copy of the note and deed at that time to refer back to. The process should be simplified to, you go three payments down, we send you a notice to get caught up in the next 90 days or the bank will foreclose on your ass, period. Property is immediately listed and someone gets a good deal. No more holding foreclosures off the banks books or in shadow inventory. This country needs to get this mess behind us, not stretch it out with more horse shit legal wrangling. end rant

You've been sucked into the trap that the propagandists from the banking industry and the politicians they own, who are pretty much every one, especially the White House, want you to see this issue from and argue the point from. You know, the poor dead beat homeowner who hasn't paid his mortgage on time is the problem here, and, just STFU, suck it up, and move out so we can foreclose and get on with the "recovery". When, in reality, the real issue is massive, systematic fraud that the whole mortgage machine was operating on and profiting from massively during the boom years is now coming back to bite them in both ass cheeks now that the buyers of all the Triple AAA securities (including the fucking NY FED! How about that for irony?!) are now threatening to sue for their money back because they just found out the game was totally rigged to the dealer. Not that they didn't know that a few years ago, but, made a bet that they could make some bucks off the deal down the line, but, now that the rabid cat is out of the bag, they are firing up the lawyers in the back office.
You shouldn't blow this off so quickly. Hey, no one wants the market to come down to affordable levels as much as me, especially 2-3 bedroom ski condos in the Rockies or Sierras with an attached garage and, please, please, hot tub or room for one, but, it would be one of the largest thefts of long standing modern bourgeois property rights since the monarchies dissolved centuries ago. I know, that sounds a bit much, but, be careful, if you really want a system where some kid can forge a signature that could take your property away using some central computer server the banks have set up (THE BANKS! MERS!), well, fine. I don't "own" shit right now, but, you, and millions and millions of other of Americans do right now, and, if you let them get away with this, down the line, it will be so much easier for some Burger King kid to stand in front of a retired judge in Florida, or wherever you live, who is supplementing his pension working for a state sanctioned foreclosure mill to take your property away in five seconds, because, there's 2 or 3 hundred other butt fucks waiting in line behind your case, and, hell, said judge has an afternoon tee time. Is that the world you want?

**liv2ski** · 10-20-2010, 06:22 PM

Originally Posted by Benny Profane

You've been sucked into the trap that the propagandists from the banking industry and the politicians they own, who are pretty much every one, especially the White House, want you to see this issue from and argue the point from. You know, the poor dead beat homeowner who hasn't paid his mortgage on time is the problem here, and, just STFU, suck it up, and move out so we can foreclose and get on with the "recovery". When, in reality, the real issue is massive, systematic fraud that the whole mortgage machine was operating on and profiting from massively during the boom years is now coming back to bite them in both ass cheeks now that the buyers of all the Triple AAA securities (including the fucking NY FED! How about that for irony?!) are now threatening to sue for their money back because they just found out the game was totally rigged to the dealer. Not that they didn't know that a few years ago, but, made a bet that they could make some bucks off the deal down the line, but, now that the rabid cat is out of the bag, they are firing up the lawyers in the back office.
You shouldn't blow this off so quickly. Hey, no one wants the market to come down to affordable levels as much as me, especially 2-3 bedroom ski condos in the Rockies or Sierras with an attached garage and, please, please, hot tub or room for one, but, it would be one of the largest thefts of long standing modern bourgeois property rights since the monarchies dissolved centuries ago. I know, that sounds a bit much, but, be careful, if you really want a system where some kid can forge a signature that could take your property away using some central computer server the banks have set up (THE BANKS! MERS!), well, fine. I don't "own" shit right now, but, you, and millions and millions of other of Americans do right now, and, if you let them get away with this, down the line, it will be so much easier for some Burger King kid to stand in front of a retired judge in Florida, or wherever you live, who is supplementing his pension working for a state sanctioned foreclosure mill to take your property away in five seconds, because, there's 2 or 3 hundred other butt fucks waiting in line behind your case, and, hell, said judge has an afternoon tee time. Is that the world you want?

Benny, you are trippin. The questions are, "are you 90+days delinquent?" "Are you able to reinstate the amount owed to your lender?" If the answers are yes and no, end of story. You been foreclosed on. I don't give a fuck if the documents are reviewed or not, as that isn't the point.

**Benny Profane** · 10-20-2010, 06:43 PM

Originally Posted by liv2ski

Benny, you are trippin. The questions are, "are you 90+days delinquent?" "Are you able to reinstate the amount owed to your lender?" If the answers are yes and no, end of story. You been foreclosed on. I don't give a fuck if the documents are reviewed or not, as that isn't the point.

But, who's the lender? That's the whole point. Who has the note? Whom should I pay? Suppose you try to sell your home in ten years and the lawyers kinda murmur, "um, ahem, I'm sorry Mr. Liv2ski, but, um, there seems to be a problem. Your title is as dirty as a one year old's diaper. We have no clue who really "owns" your home. Therefore, you don't. Unless, heh heh, ahem, (fixing tie), we all just continue this charade and lie to the judges one more time. How 'bout it?!"

Hey, I'm no Tea Party fanatic, but, furcryingoutloud, I's amazing how people are chucking their rights over the side since 9/11 just to, I don't know, keep their boats floating. Freedom of movement, freedom of speech, freedom from surveillance, and, now, property rights. And the bankers just fucking laugh at us for being the stupid fools we always are.

**Hutch** · 10-20-2010, 07:34 PM

The state laws requiring lenders/trustees to carefully ensure that no mortgages are foreclosed without ensuring that the lender has the rights it thinks it does are very important and strict compliance should be required. That big banks have elected to engage in secured transactions in 50 states means only that they need to do ehat it takes to ensure compliance with the different laws of those 50 states. It is a horribly shitty reason to advocate for nationwide uniformity in the foreclosure process. Full disclosure- I do foreclosures for a small Utah bank and represent borrowers in loan mod and short sale negotiations. My next mortgage will not be with a nationwide lender. They are unwilling to pay the cost to comply with very straightforward rules. Fuck them. I'm with Benny on this. In our society we routinely give the benefit of the doubt to the less powerful party in a transaction. That's because some playing fields need leveling. If you don't comply with the terms of your mortgage, you'll lose your house, but you should rest assured that your lender carefully reviewed your fucking file before they take away your most valuable asset. The macro "we need to blow through this shadow inventory" line is a greedhead argument, and I'm surprised to see liv2ski making it.

**Benny Profane** · 10-20-2010, 08:02 PM

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/21/bu...andoff.html?hp

"Banks “have essentially sidestepped 400 years of property law in the United States,” said Rebel A. Cole, a professor of finance and real estate at DePaul University. “There are so many questionable aspects to this thing it’s scary.”"

**meatdrink9** · 10-20-2010, 08:28 PM

I'm on the fence for this particular debate. I've developed a somewhat recent "hate the banks with every ounce of my being" stance (until I need a loan), but at the same point.... I hate deadbeats as well. I've played landlord trying to evict. It's costly and time consuming for me and happens because someone else didn't follow through with their obligations. I like how Hutch phrased his response.

On a side note. Here's some remodel stoke. iphone photo of the new kitchen:

**Hutch** · 10-20-2010, 08:33 PM

You know damn well we want more pics than that! Looks amazing.

**grapedrink** · 10-20-2010, 09:15 PM

Originally Posted by meatdrink9

I'm on the fence for this particular debate. I've developed a somewhat recent "hate the banks with every ounce of my being" stance (until I need a loan), but at the same point.... I hate deadbeats as well. I've played landlord trying to evict. It's costly and time consuming for me and happens because someone else didn't follow through with their obligations. I like how Hutch phrased his response.

On a side note. Here's some remodel stoke. iphone photo of the new kitchen:

looks great, got a before shot? share some more!