BRO's...No Cons?

[upallnight]

And I don't think there's a better backcountry touring ski out there right now than the 179. Everything else is either heavier, narrower, or softer.

APH:
I'm super in favor of a lightweight fatty....but for the steep & icy stuff. would you ever find any value in a narrower ski? Even a 9mm ski with good edge-hold doesn't have the same edgehold as a narrower ski (assuming it is a good narrower ski).

I'm not saying that the BRO would not be the best choice for the whole tour...but on days when you're skinning up firm snow the width is not a positive or if they're on your back, of course, it doesn't matter.... and if you're line is steep & firm, is the extra width counterproductive?

Just curious. I would really love to ski a BRO and try for myself., but if one had a heavier ski with a 99mm waist, would it make more sense to add to the quiver with a good 88mm waist ski for those conditions, or replace that ski with a BRO? Seems to me the former might be better.

Your (and others') argument "BRO-as-1-ski-quiver" seems to have alot of merit, though.

[upallnight]

Hope this doesn't tick anyone off around here, but just curious. I can search/research in this forum and others, and can find legit anti/pro reviews/testimonials of other skis in this class (goats, KW mid-fats, etc.), but can't seem to find any negatives with regards to the Bro (other than preferences between the 179 and 188 for obvious reasons, as well as mounting points).

There has to be a naysayer somewhere for christ sake. I don't believe there has ever been a ski made that suited everyone's style or taste, but the BRO seems to be dispelling that myth. I sure as hell can't speak for PM or Splat, but constructive criticism is usually more insightful than positive testimonials. Don't mean to start shit, just interested if anyone has any slight criticism of the the bros.

Well....
1) You're asking this of the community that includes the manufacturer(s);
2) The design incorporates the collective feedback of this community;
3) Sometimes on the board you will find a bit of a herd mentality that can be hard for some to speak up against (e.g., it's rare to find folks that say anything negative about custom boards, in general);
4) Some folks who post the raves include people skiing their first-ever fat ski...or others who have no basis for comparison (but can say "this is awesome"...which leads one to believe that *some* people are just reading others' "great" reviews, and they want to be a part of it, too, so they parrot the comments. This happens for many skis, not just the BRO -- and it definitely DOES NOT mean that there are not legitimate raves about the BRO; it's a general cautionary statement about being careful about the background of anyone giving a review/advice. It's not so much their fault, they just don't know.)

Some guy did criticize the graphics on the BRO a while back (trying to say theat the graphics didn't appeal to him and may not appeal to some others), but he got eaten alive.

I think the true measure of a company (esp a small one) is how well they listen and accept feedback + work to make problems right. By all accounts, PMGear gets absolutely top marks in that regard.

I think constructive criticism is a good thing because it gives those very companies that care a chance to react. How can you improve if all anyone ever tells you is that your product is great?

(PS I would like to ski and maybe buy a BRO.)

[cito]

That is why I hold your guys opinions in such high regard. You usually disect the goings-on of most "mag" skis quite thoroughly. The good with the bad. The feedback isn't would what you'd call consistent.

PS And I too will be buying a pair quite thankfully

[cito]

Why does "easily blown sidewalls" vs. "easily chipped topsheets" have to be a compromise? Is that where they save their nickels? I understand what you're saying, but sheesh, for the duckets they all are charging? You'd think...

[marshalolson]

if you have an impact to the edge on an ABS sandwich ski the edge might get a little bent and worst case you need to fill in a little of the sidewall. easy repair that will last for a long time.

on cap ski the topsheet is structural, so a hit will cause the topsheet to delam from the edge/base/core. this is not really fixable since a major structural part of the ski is affected. all you can do is fill with epoxy and have an expensive rock ski.

unless someone starts reccessing the topsheet into the ABS, an edge will always be able to hang up under the topsheet and the graphic will chip.

[cito]

Jeezus Marsh, either you know your shit or you can sure as hell make people get lost in your shit. I have a feeling it's the former...so why can't engineers complete the following to some extent, "unless someone starts reccessing..."

[f2f]

marshal knows his shit, stick around a little longer and you'll know why

ps: cut the homeboy lingo out :P

[cito]

I forgot "yo" was owned by TGR, once again, my bad. Ski'd/surf'd my whole life, never chimed in, but lurked for a bit. Homeboy lingo, can't make it up.

[Shredgar]

Got a pair of the mismatched 179 blems. Jumped up & down on the stiffer one for a few weeks, now the camber & flex match. Round flex, torsionally stiff, they ski great. Damp & pretty straight = stable for their length. The sidewalls are angled = topsheet is kind of recessed. Wish they had less twintip. One tail delaminated, the epoxy fix has held. Have skied them in deep pow, steep chutes & good corn & have been happy.

Also have a pair of the stiff 188s. Also great skis & are my ride for ski areas using my big boots, Scarpa T1s. But I mostly ski the Wasatch backcountry & prefer to use my lighter & softer T2 boots. The stiff 188s are more ski than I need for that purpose & will be put up for sale. Whoever gets them will be pleased.

Edited to add yea when there is less ski penetration, skinnier sticks ski & tour fine & can have some advantages. Got a pair of the Italian Trab Freerandos for that purpose. My 179 Bros are light at 7.56lbs/pair. The Trabs are 78mm underfoot & 6.25lbs/pair, Ferraris for ski mountaineering.

[dfinn]

don't laugh too much but this is a somewhat serious question. are any east coast mags on bros? it sounds like everyone says they make a great all around ski, any reason why they wouldn't make a great all around EC ski?

[funkendrenchman]

if you have an impact to the edge on an ABS sandwich ski the edge might get a little bent and worst case you need to fill in a little of the sidewall. easy repair that will last for a long time.

on cap ski the topsheet is structural, so a hit will cause the topsheet to delam from the edge/base/core. this is not really fixable since a major structural part of the ski is affected. all you can do is fill with epoxy and have an expensive rock ski.

unless someone starts reccessing the topsheet into the ABS, an edge will always be able to hang up under the topsheet and the graphic will chip.

This is true to some extent, but the Legend Pro is a sandwhich ski and its topsheet does not peel (as far as I know).

[splat]

I'll chime in on that question........The reason we haven't made a ski for the East Coast is that we had nothing but struggles getting one ski made. making two skis proved to be even harder. As a newbie ski company, we've had to rely on some real shithead manufacturers who 1) don't deliver as promised 2) say they know everything and end up proving they know nothing and 3) we started the company with almost no money and have been losing money since because of the broken promises and bullshit the manufacturers have spewed.

From the consumer perspective, it would be easy to assume that we should just make a ski for everyone and every condition - but it ain't that easy. With no large capital outlay to invest, we have stayed small, but true to our roots. The 188 Bro and the 179 Bro were made to be skis that you could take out on any given day and know you'd get on sticks that would handle whatever the mountain dished out. And they do that. We have come out of the last two seasons with little to no money left over to get all creative, but with a lot of happy customers.

We're just as small as you get, but we are now slowly collecting the machinery to make skis ourselves. Once we get the process down, it will be much cheper and far easier to start diversifying our quiver of offerings. After learning that trusting others to keep their word and make the skis for us was basically a delusion of grandeur, we're throwin down to do it ourselves. As I've said a thousand times - we're not K2, and we're not Rossignol. We're just a bunch of people who love to ski and love to make the skis maggots want. As we grow, we'll continue to make more models with the approval and feedback of the people here. But in the meantime, we'll continue to take baby steps. It's all we can do until things settle out and allow us to grow into bigger boots. Thank you all for your kind reviews. But don't hold back - we like to hear from the people who have skied the Bros and can tell us from experience if there's anything we can improve

[MTT]

This is true to some extent, but the Legend Pro is a sandwhich ski and its topsheet does not peel (as far as I know).

No need to look at LP's through rose colored glasses. Great Ski for a very aggresive skier (Most here) but they are not as durable as the Bro's I own and ski both.

[splat]

This is true to some extent, but the Legend Pro is a sandwhich ski and its topsheet does not peel (as far as I know).

There are some damn durable topsheets out there. The LP has one. Material sourcing takes a while sometimes. Small ski companies in the US were hard-pressed for edges this spring. The rubber anti-vibration layers you always hear about - there's one guy in the US supplying many independents with that stuff - and you have to use it more to bond layers together more than to dampen a ride. It's made in Europe. Same with many of the best topsheet materials, I believe. It's not like calling someone in New Jersey to get it. The topsheets on the Bros and many indies skis is PBT, a rather chippy plastic that graphics can be easily laminated to. To lessen the chipping, I have hand-beveled the edge where the sidewall meets the PBT on almost 200 pair of Bros, creating a bit of a slope so the edges hit the fiberglass under the PBT and hopefully slide over it. If I didn't do that, the topsheet would chip in some damn big flakes. On some of the metal skis, you might notice the topsheet set back on metal, so edges hit the metal first. Same to similar solution obtained through different approaches.

[Syprik]

Have few issues with 188 Stiffs (last yr model):

1. Topsheet durability...aka chipping - no big deal, but future attention to this could do good.
2. Wax hold - perhaps new bases are better?


No cruise control? Come on now. May 5th weekend up at Mammoth I was having major issues keeping speeds reasonable. Speed warning from ski patrol aint cool. When folks say they bomb proper, they aint jokin. I've never had so much fun charging through varied conditions. The verdict is still out wrt to steep icy chute performance... next season and fresh tune will tell.

I'm not the type who jumps on bandwagons, but I have to say I'm absolutely pleased with the 188 on the little time I've charged them. So easy/quick to handle in tight steep lines. Light setup, even with the s916 boat anchors I have on there.

I'm an EC'er and did the whole gs ice racer spiel growing up. If you know how to lay an edge through ice like most EC'ers do and have a proper tune, see no reason why you couldnt use these on chop/powder days back East. Not to say I'm not going to rock my Race Tigers on Whiteface groomer days, but the Bros will certainly prove worthy on a variety of days. Not sure about the 179's on EC ice though...significantly less edge contact. Others will have to chime in there.

Keep it up!

Oh and update the website... needs a little tender care and info is outdated.

[SkiEvil]

don't laugh too much but this is a somewhat serious question. are any east coast mags on bros? it sounds like everyone says they make a great all around ski, any reason why they wouldn't make a great all around EC ski?

I ski at Seven Springs in PA most of the time (Patrol) and make a couple of trips out west each season. The 2005/2006 188 stiffs are my main ski. The only issue is that they make a small mountain smaller. It took me a while to get them dialed in but once I did they were (are) tremendous.

I do get some stange looks when I am on them and some people challenge the need for a wide ski on the Ice Coast. I simply ski a run with them and the questions change from why do you ski those? to how can I get a pair?

As far as the top sheet issue, they do not chip nearly as badly as my first generation bandits did. I also have a pair of Explosivs that also chip fairly easily. Personally the chipping does not bother me, a chipped ski is a ski that has been skiied not stored in a rack.

- Evil

[justcuz]

I sold my Stockli Stormrider DP's late last season and went to the 188 SOFTS. Some people were like "dude, that's insane......you should at least be getting the stiff if not the supers". But my thought (and I turned out to be right) was that the 188 softs would be almost as stable, easier to ski, and I would still be able to ski em' as hard as I did my stocklis. So true...and by the end of the day my legs still had feeling in them.

I have 188 softs with the baby blue bases...they hold wax fine. No better or worse than any other ski I've owned.

Re: Topsheet chips.

The stocklis had SUPER bomber topsheets. But I have got to believe that those topsheets added a ton of weight to the ski. Splat, can you keep this in mind when you think about improving the durability of the topsheets? The Bro is super rad for our short tours here in Michigan, I'd hate to make it any less fun because of a nicer topsheet.

I don't like the fact that they don't come tuned either, but add $40 onto the price of the ski and it's still cheaper than most any really nice new ski out there.

[marshalolson]

On some of the metal skis, you might notice the topsheet set back on metal, so edges hit the metal first.

................

thanks splat.

a scholar and a gentleman.




so long story short a glass/wood ski is prone to chipping and metal topsheet or cap skis are not, if made properly.

though cap skis are prone to delam, and metal skis are prone to getting bent nd weighting alot more than glass/wood.

i'll take glass/wood, and deal with them not looking pretty forever.

[shmerham]

There are actually quite a few skiers on the East Coast that use the Bro's. Their light weight make them easy to throw around in the trees.

[skifishbum]

A little less chamber on next seasons sticks would be nice. The only other con is having to explain the PM Gear/Bro story several times a day.
Oh yeah there are not wide enough. Rectify that please.

[Huck_Schmuck]

I smoked a rock on about day three on the skis and have treated them as rock skis ever since.

Sorry Shirk, is that a pro or a con? For me I only turn to crack when things are really bad. Thus implying that the bros are bad. Or maybe you were comfortable to start using really hard drugs after only three days. I'm confused.

[Vinman]

don't laugh too much but this is a somewhat serious question. are any east coast mags on bros?

I'm on the EC and have about a season and a half on the Bros now. And there are a good handful of EC maggots now on Bros.

I really can't find much wrong with mine. Topsheet chipping is such a minor thing, I could really care less about that. Performance wise I feel that the Bros perform well in almost all conditions. The only place I have found them difficult to ski is in tight steep moguls (no surprise there). My list of pros would be the same as most others here. Damp, stable, carves well, good hold on ice/firm snow, floaty, crud buster, light, low swing weight in tight spots etc.

Cons: Tough to get tuned the first time. Most shops have no idea what to do with them when you bring them in. This would be something I think PMG should look into in the future. Getting that finish tune on pre-delivery would be a major plus. Even if it is just having each set with a finish grind and leave the edge alone so that peeps can bevel them to their preferneces.

On my set the concave base thing was a bit concerning at first, until I realized that it idi not effect performance. QA needs to come up a bit on this and may have been fixed by now.

I am now seeting a small delam on the tail of one of my skis right now. The base is begining to bubble at the very end and the edge on the tail is looking a bit loose.


Overall though I am very please with this ski and would buy again if I ever needed to.

[sfotex]

Got a pair, love 'em. Damn fine ski for the BC, haven't had a chance to ski them in bounds yet, but I can't wait. You'll be hard pressed to find a ski this light that handles this well....

[skiing-in-jackson]

I'll be in line to get a pair stiff 188's for next season. But I hear this delam talk and it gets me thinking. I'm not a super agressive skier, but I ski alot. I haven't heard a word about a warranty- do the Bros come with one?

I don't care about top sheet dings/chips- All the Iggy skis I see look pretty rough, but will people shed some light on the delam issue that seems recurrent through this entire thread?

[Twoplanker]

In all honesty, we don't get that many people providing us with negative feedback. Maybe that's because people don't want to say anything negative to our faces and maybe it's because we make good skis. All of the problems mentioned above we have heard before and we're working to address those problems, for sure.

However, we did just get an email from some dude that skied them and he hated them. We immediately dispatched our 'customer satisfaction' department to address his needs:



His concerns have been silenced...errr, addressed.

You can't please everyone and if you try you wind up pleasing nobody. One thing you can be sure of: if you buy BROs and you're dissatisfied or unhappy we WILL take care of you.