UTAH - 79 year old driver kills biker and gets off easy

[oldfattradguy]

n September 12, 2005 Steve. Williams (a long time wasatch skier climbers and biker) was struck from behind and killed by a 79 year old motorist while bicycling in near Ceder Breaks Kane County, utah . On May 10, 2006 after negotiating and reaching a plea agreement for a Class B Misdemeanor with the Kane County attorney, the driver was sentenced to one-year probation and a $957.00 fine in a Kanab courtroom. In Utah Class B Misdemeanors include gambling and soliciting a prostitute. In my opinion the Kane County attorney placed an extremely low value on a human life. This case sets an awful precedent. It appears that a man can get away with murder in Kane County.

the driver was not screened for alcohol or other substances,

the driver claimed that he had glare on his windsheld, while driving a minvan and heading due west before 11am in the morning. A state trooper did an investigation and found that this is not likely. (pers. communication)

nobody was asking for jail time including steve's wife who reqested that no jail time be served.

the judge was himself suprised that this case was even in his courtroom because of such a minor plea, he was a former prosucter who would have expected a more serious charge (pers. communication) and hence the case should have went to jury as another case did her in salt lake earlier this year.


Perhaps it is time that all bicyclists boycott spending money in Kane County Utah.

Please contact the Kane County Attorney and the Utah Attorney General and let them know that this case sets an awful precedent in which the life of a bicyclist is worth so little and that bicyclists as a group are extremely dissatisfied with the Kane County Attorney’s office allowing the case to be plea bargained to such a minor charge.

We are hoping to raise their awareness of bicyclists. I’m hoping to get 1000 people to make this contact and state their displeasure.


John E. Hummel
Kane County Attorney
76 North Main Street
Kanab, Utah 84741
(435) 644-5278
Fax: (435) 644-8156
Email: attorneyasst@kanab.net



Mark Shurtleff
Utah Attorney General
236 State Capitol Building
Salt Lake City, Utah 84114
(801) 538-9600
Fax (801) 538-1121
Email: mshurtleff@utah.gov

[shmoesmith]

thats sad stuff, however I dont think that driver ought to be charged any different just because he hit a cyclist(as opposed to hitting another car and killing the driver in a regular car accident). I doubt that most people that kill other people in car accidents are ever charged with anything unless drugs or alcohol are suspect. Pos vibes to the family though. Goes to show how dangerous cycling can be. I've been hit 2x now while on my bike and am lucky to have not been seriously injured each time. If I remember right you are 12X more likely to be hit on a cycle for each kilometer riden than if you were in a car. Scary stuff.

[pechelman]

Im not saying Im on anyone's "side" here, but what would you have liked to happen to the 79yo man?

It seems to me the problem isnt with the judicial system, the punishment, or even the awareness of cyclist, but rather the very relaxed qualifications it takes for anyone in the US to drive a car. In otherwords, the DMV sucks ass.

Ive always seriously believed everyone needs to have a test every ~5 years of some sort, and once you get above a certain age, 70 maybe? have more frequent physical checkups required to verify reactions, eyesight, etc in addition to a driving test.

granted the DMV is F'D up enough as it is, but shit needs to be done.
Germany has it a lot closer to how it should be.

[shmoesmith]

It seems to me the problem isnt with the judicial system, the punishment, or even the awareness of cyclist, but rather the very relaxed qualifications it takes for anyone in the US to drive a car. In otherwords, the DMV sucks ass.

Ive always seriously believed everyone needs to have a test every ~5 years of some sort, and once you get above a certain age, 70 maybe? have more frequent physical checkups required to verify reactions, eyesight, etc in addition to a driving test.

This would be a great idea...as well as some additional restrictions on new drivers. If I recall from my aggressive drivers school (had to go for cutting across a parking lot of all dumb things..only ticket EVER) something like 50% of all FATAL accidents are caused by males between the ages of 16 and 18....

[Plakespear]

Im not saying Im on anyone's "side" here, but what would you have liked to happen to the 79yo man?

I don't know. Maybe SUSPEND HIS FUCKING LICENSE????

[oldfattradguy]

I don't know. Maybe SUSPEND HIS FUCKING LICENSE????

thats a good start or at least test him

no one wanted or asked for jail time, in another similar case in salt lake last year, the driver got some community service and a bigger fine to be used for bike advocay. thats a much better deal for the bike world.

the whole idea behind the letter campaign is to have the local prosucuter realize that bikers are people with value and contribute to the local tourism economy and need to be recognized. would the charge been any different it the person killed was a local? my gut tells me it would be.

[pechelman]

I don't know. Maybe SUSPEND HIS FUCKING LICENSE????

the driver was sentenced to one-year probation

I assumed that the probation included a suspension. Im not privy to the entire details of the proceedings so I guess I honestly dont know.
He obviously should have had is liscense REVOKED.

Additionally, Im talking about finding the ROOT CAUSE.
If those checks and retests were inplace, there is a chance that man would have never had his license to begin with.

My argument stemmed from contacting the authorities about legal precedent.
Its not about precedent IMO, because just think how many times a cyclist\pedestrian\anyone has been killed in a car accident.
Rather, I think, its about a much larger change that needs to happen...and dont ask me how thats gonna happen

however, your point is taken.

[Telephil]

On a slightly related topic, anyone see this? We have a few races that originate in the oakley area? This dumbass city councilman made a joke about running over cyclists that don't pay taxes to use the roads. This came only a month after one of the biggest cycling advocates (from park city, 15 minutes from Oakley) was killed by a cement truck.

Trails advocate 'shocked' by comment about cyclists
Patrick Parkinson, Of the Record staff

Bicyclists in Oakley beware.

After declaring Wednesday that cyclists should be taxed to use roads, Oakley City Councilman DelRay Hatch said, "so the ones that don't pay I could run over."

Cyclists would be required to display a tag so he could identify people who haven't paid the tax, Hatch said during a meeting the Summit County Commission conducted this week with other elected officials in the area.

During a telephone interview Thursday Hatch claimed his comments were a joke.

"I have no intentions of ever running over a bicyclist," Hatch said.

However, Mountain Trails Foundation Executive Director Carol Potter said Hatch's comment is "sad."

"I'm somewhat shocked by the comment, even in jest," Potter said when contacted Thursday to respond. "There is so much energy going into safe cycling and I'm so sorry that he said that. That's really too bad."

Hatch said he wasn't aware of the death of Park City cyclist Bill Corliss last month. Described as a giant in Summit County's community of avid bicyclists, Corliss, 49, reportedly died on impact of "severe head injuries" when he fell into traffic and was struck by a pickup truck in Utah County.

Though Hatch insists he doesn't "intend" to run over any bicyclists, he said he would tax them to use roads.

"We pay taxes for the county, we pay gas taxes, we do everything. But in the middle of summer here, the roads are obstructed when they have these big races and stuff, and we can't even get on the roads," Hatch said. "If we was to go from here to Park City it's going delay us, oh, probably about a half hour I would like to see some kind of a tax put on bicyclists. If they're going to use the roads and they're going to obstruct the traffic they ought to at least pay a fair tax on it."

Pinebrook resident Don Brown countered, "I don't believe that the tax infrastructure is a problem. We just have a case of people becoming more aware of the preponderance of non-motorized users of roads, and this is a good thing."

"When people make statements, be they positive or negative, it raises awareness of matters such as these," added Brown, who serves on a committee exploring alternative forms of transportation in Summit County.

Road features like "Share the Road" signs and bicycle paths prove cyclists are a recognized part of the transportation system, he said.

"I certainly believe that all roadway users are beholden to adhere to the laws and the usage requirements that are set forth," Brown said. "That we would need to change our tax base is dubious."

Hatch's fourth term on the Oakley City Council ends in 2007.

[L7]

The guy has offered ample proof that he can be at least somewhat of a hazard on the road. The one year probabtion should include a license suspension and then he has to EARN his license back by passing a rigorous driving test.

There is nothing wrong with retesting drivers with diminishing skills and certainly not with retesting someone who has demonstrated poor skills or judgement.

[scarlet begonias]

On a slightly related topic, anyone see this? We have a few races that originate in the oakley area? This dumbass city councilman made a joke about running over cyclists that don't pay taxes to use the roads. This came only a month after one of the biggest cycling advocates (from park city, 15 minutes from Oakley) was killed by a cement truck.

Trails advocate 'shocked' by comment about cyclists
Patrick Parkinson, Of the Record staff

Bicyclists in Oakley beware.

After declaring Wednesday that cyclists should be taxed to use roads, Oakley City Councilman DelRay Hatch said, "so the ones that don't pay I could run over."

Cyclists would be required to display a tag so he could identify people who haven't paid the tax, Hatch said during a meeting the Summit County Commission conducted this week with other elected officials in the area.

During a telephone interview Thursday Hatch claimed his comments were a joke.

"I have no intentions of ever running over a bicyclist," Hatch said.

However, Mountain Trails Foundation Executive Director Carol Potter said Hatch's comment is "sad."

"I'm somewhat shocked by the comment, even in jest," Potter said when contacted Thursday to respond. "There is so much energy going into safe cycling and I'm so sorry that he said that. That's really too bad."

Hatch said he wasn't aware of the death of Park City cyclist Bill Corliss last month. Described as a giant in Summit County's community of avid bicyclists, Corliss, 49, reportedly died on impact of "severe head injuries" when he fell into traffic and was struck by a pickup truck in Utah County.

Though Hatch insists he doesn't "intend" to run over any bicyclists, he said he would tax them to use roads.

"We pay taxes for the county, we pay gas taxes, we do everything. But in the middle of summer here, the roads are obstructed when they have these big races and stuff, and we can't even get on the roads," Hatch said. "If we was to go from here to Park City it's going delay us, oh, probably about a half hour I would like to see some kind of a tax put on bicyclists. If they're going to use the roads and they're going to obstruct the traffic they ought to at least pay a fair tax on it."

Pinebrook resident Don Brown countered, "I don't believe that the tax infrastructure is a problem. We just have a case of people becoming more aware of the preponderance of non-motorized users of roads, and this is a good thing."

"When people make statements, be they positive or negative, it raises awareness of matters such as these," added Brown, who serves on a committee exploring alternative forms of transportation in Summit County.

Road features like "Share the Road" signs and bicycle paths prove cyclists are a recognized part of the transportation system, he said.

"I certainly believe that all roadway users are beholden to adhere to the laws and the usage requirements that are set forth," Brown said. "That we would need to change our tax base is dubious."

Hatch's fourth term on the Oakley City Council ends in 2007.

Hatch sounds like a real ass jockey...don't re-elect him, he obviously has something wrong upstairs.

As for the old dood, I agree- REVOKE the liscense. And why AREN'T we testing drivers over the age of 65??? I know in VT they don't ever have to be retested. Thank god my parents were smart enough to get my grandma off the road before she did something similar.

I wouldn't want to ride a bike in Florida. A lot of sun to "reflect off the glass", and enough Q-tips (old people with big, bushy, white hair) that can't see over the steering wheel to fill a football stadium or two....

[zion zig zag]

And why AREN'T we testing drivers over the age of 65???

The old folks have a lot of power in Washington. AARP is actually a pretty strong lobby group.

[CANADASTEEP]

Just get a an "angry" mob of 20 ppl and hassle him where he leasts expect it, like the grocery store. Public embarassment = short career.

And get someone to film it. Kinda like "cheaters".
No one likes a loser!

[SkiingBear]

I used to be of the same mindset...retest old drivers on a regular basis and make them work to KEEP their license. Then I had this disucssion with my father (who at the time was around 50, so not old...yet). His only real reply was, "we'll see how you feel about that when you're 65." While I know it's not exactly a great justification for not implementing a retesting program, he had a point. People that are 65 (seemed like a good age to work with) have been driving for roughly 50 years. What really begins to suffer at that age is reflexes and reaction time. How do you propose we test that...throw a baseball at their head and see if they can dodge it / catch it? I definitely wouldn't want their reaction time being tested in traffic.

flyk makes a great point about the political power of old people. Look at history, Clinton was one of the few that actually campaigned to young people. Watch the next campaign and pay attention to the age of the hands being shaken. There's a reason for that...old people get involved, and old people vote (ie have a lot of control of what goes into law)

Edit: I should add that I believe drivers that kill bicyclists deserve far worse punishment than they ever get. People that joke about it publicly should be tried for conspiracy to commit murder. After the comments by that douche rocket in Oakley, I thought the biking community should have organized a group ride of multiple hundreds of cyclists to ride out to the Oakley city council meeting with each rider carrying a copy of the Utah cycling laws where it states:

"Your bicycle is considered a vehicle and you have the same rights and are subject to the same provisions as the operator of any other vehicle."

You can find this at:

http://www.udot.utah.gov/index.php/m=c/tid=1020

[L7]

I used to be of the same mindset...retest old drivers on a regular basis and make them work to KEEP their license. Then I had this disucssion with my father (who at the time was around 50, so not old...yet). His only real reply was, "we'll see how you feel about that when you're 65." While I know it's not exactly a great justification for not implementing a retesting program, he had a point. People that are 65 (seemed like a good age to work with) have been driving for roughly 50 years. What really begins to suffer at that age is reflexes and reaction time. How do you propose we test that...throw a baseball at their head and see if they can dodge it / catch it? I definitely wouldn't want their reaction time being tested in traffic.

"[/I][/B]

You can find this at:

http://www.udot.utah.gov/index.php/m=c/tid=1020

This is exactly why they should be tested, they're are little too closely vested in the situation to make the decision themselves. It's like asking someone with multiple drunk driving convictions it they are good drivers and should keep driving. Their self interest will quite often cause them to give the wrong answer.

I don't think reactions are the issue per se. I think the issue becomes multiple sensory input and an inability to deal with it. That's why they drive so slow. An 84 year old woman in ontario ran made a right turn and ran over a jogger crossing the street. She dragged the woman 2 blocks under the car, pulled into her driveway at which point the body became dislodged at the hump onto the driveway, pulled into her garage put down the door and blissfully went inside for tea. She had no idea what happened until the police knocked. It wasn't reaction time, it was complete lack of awareness.

On the other hand my Father was early seventies driving in 5 lanes of busy traffic at 100+km/hr and a truck wheel bounced over the guardrail from oncoming traffic right at him. He did enough of a fake to have it just bounce off the front bumper and kept going. He's 82 now and doesn't like those sort of highways anymore and avoids driving at night or in rain.

[pechelman]

Regarding all of this stuff, its just a simple fact that getting a license here in the states is a complete joke for everyone.

A friend of mine had to get a foreign DL (international maybe?) in France while he was getting training for his company. Turns out its a seriously rigorous test where you have to do lots of random things and while you're doing them, you have to say what you're doing and why...or something to that extent. He was 23 at the time, drove racecars before, and had a hard time with it.

Theres too much American culture ingrained into too many things, some of which is both good and bad. Driving is regarding too much as a freedom and a right, which is complete garbage imo. It needs to be viewed like it is in other countries where its a privelidge and a skill you need to maintain.

I do however disagree with foreign expenses to get a license be implemented here. In Yurp it makes more sense due to the great public transportation.

it also wouldnt hurt to outlaw garbage such as cell phones, televisions and dvd players all over the fucking place in a car.

90% of people I get pissed at on the road for being oblivious, inconsiderate, or just plain morons are talking on their phone.

[powpig]

The old folks have a lot of power in Washington. AARP is actually a pretty strong lobby group.

I'm betting this had less to do with AARP and had a lot more to do with the old guy being a high ranking member of the LDS.

[zion zig zag]

I'm betting this had less to do with AARP and had a lot more to do with the old guy being a high ranking member of the LDS.

Ummm....yeah. I wasn't talking about this individual case, I was speaking to the fact that laws and testing are not stricter for the elderly.

[haydukelives]

(i just came across this thread)
i like to ride a single-lane road frequented by high speed traffic looking at the view(probably a stupid thing to do)

I have taken an car aerial and placed it horizontally on the left side of the bike with a large orange flag. You can control how far the flag protrudes depending on the perceived danger. I do think the drivers give me a little more space.
of course in this case it would have made no difference