NSA data base of phone calls

[Tippster]

Would it be OK if I called it Morally Reprehensible and against the spirit of at least 3 Constitutional Amendments??? Don't forget, that's the document everyone involved is sworn to preserve, protect, and defend... even superceding citizens Lives.

[MeatPuppet]

Would it be OK if I called it Morally Reprehensible and against the spirit of at least 3 Constitutional Amendments??? Don't forget, that's the document everyone involved is sworn to preserve, protect, and defend... even superceding citizens Lives.

I don't really see this as a moral issue. Our government doesn't (thank God!)operate on morals, because every individual's idea of "right conduct" is different. Our government is built around laws. So I see this as more of a pragmatic legal issue than anything else. If anything, this is a failing of Congress(thus the Red Herring comment earlier). It is their job to pass laws. The executive branch is only charged with upholding laws that are already on the books. In this case, they seem to have done that.

The locational data from cell phones is something new. I hadn't considered that before cj mentioned it. I don't really have to think about that one for very long. That's a big problem and needs to be addressed...quickly.

Telecommunications take place in a heavly regulated environment as it is. While it might make me a little uncomfortable, I don't think I object to information involving which phone # connected the which other phone # and when, being in the hands of the NSA. I understand it's potential usefulness.

If the locational data were stripped from cell phone records, would you still object to the connection data going to the NSA, or any other government entity?

[flatlander420]

It blows me away after reading this thread that the same people over and over buy into the utter bullshit that we are told by this administration day after day. It makes me wonder how you can become so brainwashed to think all this crap is hunky dory because they are "protecting us from the terrorists". Makes me want to laugh,puke and cry all at the same time. That is all.

[mr_gyptian]

So if the required cellphone geographic location information is tied into the database so they can track your movements you won't complain. Good to know.

That it may be currently legal doesn't mean fuck all. It sucks, and shouldn't be legal.

all the phone companies are compiling are phone numbers and calls. nothing else. no eavesdropping via wire tapping.

are you guys going to start bleeting about Google giving you the power to type someone's phone number into their search, thereby giving you the person's name and even directions to their house?

again guys, nice try.

crying wolf is getting really old.

[Tippster]

No, it's not. People like you would never have fought against the British or the Confederacy. You enjoy the status quo and trust the powers that be too much. Finding legal loopholes to "protect" us is NOT what i want my government to do. i do not want to go skipping and humming into Big Brother land. I'm absolutely stunned that you guys are, especially since you've professed to be more Libertarians than Conservatives.

[Spats]

It's funny how conservatives will bluster and fight for an expansive reading of the Second Amendment, but will dodge and waffle to create the narrowest possible interpretation of the Fourth Amendment.

I think all the amendments are important.

[mr_gyptian]

huh?

how do the revolutionary war and the civil war tie in to a war on terror that I support?

if you ass brains cared as much about the real problem, read islamofascism, as you do about your precious bush=hitler contrived conspiracy mongering you would actually see we're winning this war.

carry on.

[3eyedsmiley]

huh?

how do the revolutionary war and the civil war tie in to a war on terror that I support?

if you ass brains cared as much about the real problem, read islamofascism, as you do about your precious bush=hitler contrived conspiracy mongering you would actually see we're winning this war.

carry on.

Ok I read, here's what they (first google entry regarding "islamofacism") said "If we in the U.S.A. and our European allies had any sense, we would be shipping Muslims out of our countries as fast as we could. It doesn't matter if they are moderate or radical, either way they don't want to assimilate and feel they have the obligation to impose their religious world view on us. Whether they want to do it peacefully or violently, the result will be the same: Sharia law and dhimmitude for us non-Muslims...Anyone who thinks this clash with Islam is just going to go away is living in some kind of a fog. It's only going to get worse until we non-Muslims unite and take extreme actions to defend our lands and cultures from Muslim encroachment."

For some reason this kind of scares me, doesn't really make me want to support it for some reason. I just can't pinpoint why...
I think it had something to do with the Constitution and a free nation?

And just because some extreme leftists think that Bush is the next Hitler doesn't mean we all do.

Also, we aren't winning any war. In war, no one wins. Sure we may "stop the terrorists" for now or whatever in your grand vision but at what cost? Thousands of Americans/Iraqis killed, sectarian violence, strained religious ties, and more. Sure we may have come out getting what we wanted in the end, but we will have already paid much more than we expected to lose. Right now it seems like a Yankees Devil Rays game where the Devil Rays are nto backing down and the game is the deciding one in the series, and even though the Yankees probably will win eventually, they have already lost Randy Johnson to a broken wrist due to a liner hit right at him. Even if the Yankees come out with a win, they'll be hurting and definitely feeling like it.

[Tippster]

We are not winning the "War on Terrorism." there is no finite amount of terrorists that can be defeated - it's like fighting the war on Drugs or a war on agressive drivers (or your war on Bush Bashers.) The conditions that engender terrorism/drugs/aggressive driving/Bush need to be addressed before effective change can be made.

ISLAM isn't turning these guys into terrorists, just like Christianity isn't turning you into a pedophile.

[cj001f]

the real problem, read islamofascism

hey guys!

I'm a psychopath with nukes, missiles, and a bad attitude. Would you please pass the Hennessy?

[mr_gyptian]

We are not winning the "War on Terrorism." there is no finite amount of terrorists that can be defeated - it's like fighting the war on Drugs or a war on agressive drivers (or your war on Bush Bashers.) The conditions that engender terrorism/drugs/aggressive driving/Bush need to be addressed before effective change can be made.

ISLAM isn't turning these guys into terrorists, just like Christianity isn't turning you into a pedophile.

So it isn't the Imam's fomenting hate that causes young muslims to become terrorists? you mean they aren't meeting in mosques across the globe to plan terrorist attacks? Nor do they commit these acts of terrorism in the name of Allah? Just so I'm clear on this. thanks much.

sheesh, I guess I'm lucky not to be christian? who knew they were training pederasts?

[MassLiberal]

Good god, you just don't get it. Kill a thousand Immans, ten thousand more are going to pop up to take their places. This isn't a war that can really be won solely with bombs and bullets, unless you wiped out the entire middle east.

Just like your leader you see everything in black or white, yet the reality is so much more complex it's astounding.

[mr_gyptian]

oh great another "nuanced" Masshole with a hat.

I thought we'd start with building two democracies in the Middle East specifically taking out a theocracy in Afghanistan and a dictatorship in Iraq. Then I thought we'd do a little more than hint at democracy and pressure nations such as Egypt and Saudi Arabia to have more wide open and inclusive elections(not perfect, I know, but it's a process). An ancillary benefit of our show of force has former terrorist in chief al-Gaddafi to give up his weapons programs. Palestinians had elections and proved they truly are as failed a society as we'd previously thought. Lebanon was different, they actually value human life and are working to get the syrians out of their country and are working towards becoming the riviera of the Eastern Med they once were.

black and white enough for ya?

[summit]

mr gyptian: so you are saying the war is a war on islamofascism (which does scare me and is a danger) but the administration is too politically correct to call it that or fight it like that?

[MassLiberal]

oh great another "nuanced" Masshole with a hat.

I thought we'd start with building two democracies in the Middle East specifically taking out a theocracy in Afghanistan and a dictatorship in Iraq. Then I thought we'd do a little more than hint at democracy and pressure nations such as Egypt and Saudi Arabia to have more wide open and inclusive elections(not perfect, I know, but it's a process). An ancillary benefit of our show of force has former terrorist in chief al-Gaddafi to give up his weapons programs. Palestinians had elections and proved they truly are as failed a society as we'd previously thought. Lebanon was different, they actually value human life and are working to get the syrians out of their country and are working towards becoming the riviera of the Eastern Med they once were.

black and white enough for ya?

And how's that policy working out for you? I never would have guessed that you would be a proponent of liberal democratic peace theory. It'll probably go down as the biggest policy blunder in modern history. Democracy isn't grown at the point of a gun, it comes from within, and any foreign policy that is based around overtly creating liberal democracies is doomed to failure.

You want to make head way in killing terrorism? Stop proping up the regimes of Saudi Arabia, whose suffocating domestic policies have created legions of young men with nothing to live for. Those same young men who find meaning by joining radical islam, whose immams are tolerated because they draw attention away from the problems faced at home by casting the blame abroad.

Fighting terrorism by inflaming the muslim world and invading the one secular country in the middle east is beyond stupid. In doing so we have planted the seeds for yet another islamist state without doing anything to address the real problem.

[freshies]

democracy can't be forced upon a nation, it has to be organically grown/selected by its people

[Grange]

oh great another "nuanced" Masshole with a hat.

I thought we'd start with building two democracies in the Middle East specifically taking out a theocracy in Afghanistan and a dictatorship in Iraq.

So you support nation building then?