NSA data base of phone calls

[summit]

what the ^%$3 is that? Like far left is not intertwined in their own ideology? It all sucks. i respect anyone who does not adhere to either ideology.

Agreed. Both ideologies=whack. Stupid dogma...

When they start misusing the info then I will get my boxer's in a twist. Until then I will just assume...

WHEN THEY MISUSE.... I WILL BE UPSET... UNTIL THEN...

pretty fatalistic... I agree.

The abuse is inevitable. They will absue this. The first clue is that they already are breaking the law. They are spying on you and keeping the details secret... that means the abuses will go on for a long time before anyone gets direct proof of a particular victim. (And what lengths will they go to in order to ensure nobody reveals that sort of info? HINT: Gitmo)

But apparently random spying on citiziens who have done no wrong is OK by you unless they do something worse... and you still recognize that as inevitable.

I think it is retarded that you are OK with this illegal abuse until it gets "worse".

What really scares me is that the country seems to be full of people who think just like you.

[Cyber Cop]

When they start misusing the info then I will get my boxer's in a twist.

Yea, it won't be too late then, naw.

[MassLiberal]

say's the man commited to the other political ideology, and even puts it in his name.

I think that I made it pretty clear in past posts that I don't adhere to any idealogy, per se, as I stated before Robert Frost has said: A liberal is some one so broad minded he can't be trusted to stand behind his own argument.

Does liberalism has it's faults? Hell yeah, to many to count. But it's a world view I'll take any day of the week over what the conservatives have been offering. One of my points in that statement is that the Neo conseratives tend to march in lock step over message and ideology, they sacrifice their own individuality for a greater cause (ie John McCain). As a result, we are in the messes that we are in now.

[lemon boy]

When they start misusing the info then I will get my boxer's in a twist.

How are you going to know if they misuse the data?

[Cono Este]

Prety harsh Summit.

I'm not trying to defend it. I'm just impartial until I see some real abuse. Until then I will assume it has helped them do their jobs, keeping us safe.

What the hell are you worried about? Even if misused and without that warrant, i doubt it would ever be admisable in court against a US citizen for growing weed.

I think the gov't is faced with an ever evolving technological war to fight. The Chinese are hacking into our defense industry nightly.

All I need is one example of some dude who gets busted for nurturing his pot plant and I will carry the picket sign for you.

[lemon boy]

Prety harsh Summit.

I'm not trying to defend it. I'm just impartial until I see some real abuse. Until then I will assume it has helped them do their jobs, keeping us safe.

What the hell are you worried about? Even if misused and without that warrant, i doubt it would ever be admisable in court against a US citizen for growing weed.

I think the gov't is faced with an ever evolving technological war to fight. The Chinese are hacking into our defense industry nightly.

All I need is one example of some dude who gets busted for nurturing his pot plant and I will carry the picket sign for you.

Two words for you: Jose Padilla

Warrants?
Due process?
Courts?
Lawyers?

These are things of the past, glad to see you're rapidly adapting yourself to the new world order.

[Jer]

Dos Palabras:
Los Desaparecidos.

[Cono Este]

Two words for you: Jose Padilla

Warrants?
Due process?
Courts?
Lawyers?

These are things of the past, glad to see you're rapidly adapting yourself to the new world order.

Is that your best example? Someone who traveled overseas for terrorist training and conspired with known Al Queada memebers? I was hoping for an innocent hippy with a knack for horticulture.

Jose Padilla has been indicted for teror related crimes.
http://www.usdoj.gov/ag/speeches/200...ch_051122.html

Come on. Just give me a real one. i said "MISUSED" the information, not a "Good Use" of it.

[Mcwop]

I think that I made it pretty clear in past posts that I don't adhere to any idealogy, per se, as I stated before Robert Frost has said: A liberal is some one so broad minded he can't be trusted to stand behind his own argument.

Does liberalism has it's faults? Hell yeah, to many to count. But it's a world view I'll take any day of the week over what the conservatives have been offering. One of my points in that statement is that the Neo conseratives tend to march in lock step over message and ideology, they sacrifice their own individuality for a greater cause (ie John McCain). As a result, we are in the messes that we are in now.

So going in lockstep is ok if it fits your worldview?

Neo conservatives move in lockstep on their issues, and so do many liberals. That is reality.

[MassLiberal]

examples of liberals marching lockstep on issues?

One of the "problems" (depending on how you look at it), that the left has getting elected, is that they doesn't put aside it's differences within certain groups in order to form a unified message.

[PNWbrit]

Worrying that the journalistic titans at USAToday broke this story - I bet there are some interesting conversations going on in editor's offices around the country today?

Never mind because the media are already getting themselves and the nation in a frenzy about the really important stuff - get ready for the Davinci Code crisis 24/7 coverage!!

[lemon boy]

Is that your best example? Someone who traveled overseas for terrorist training and conspired with known Al Queada memebers? I was hoping for an innocent hippy with a knack for horticulture.

Jose Padilla has been indicted for teror related crimes.
http://www.usdoj.gov/ag/speeches/200...ch_051122.html

Come on. Just give me a real one. i said "MISUSED" the information, not a "Good Use" of it.

[ak_powder_monkey]

vote democrat this fall so we can impeach this scumbag president

[lemon boy]

vote democrat this fall so we can impeach this scumbag president

Yeah, that'll help

[mr_gyptian]

Combine that with the Oak Ridge labs supercomputer storage of every email we have sent and web page viewed and you have a govt that can/will use this information in corrupt ways to prosecute anyone they want for anything they want. I predict the day will come that any encounter with police will result in this information being used against Americans for background checks, admissible court evidence, and sentencing.

Unpossible?

uh...yeah....sure.

he's right (I think I just threw up in my mouth, heh). If you don't think the government has been doing this for years upon years you are a fool.

not only that, but J. Edgar Hoover makes the current NSA look like choir boys.

again, if this database of phone calls prevents an attack I don't think there's going to be many people objecting to it. What is it already? 70% of the US approves of the NSA wiretapping. so it's not just the soft headed red staters that are in favor of this.

[summit]

Prety harsh Summit.

I'm not trying to defend it. I'm just impartial until I see some real abuse. Until then I will assume it has helped them do their jobs, keeping us safe.

What the hell are you worried about? Even if misused and without that warrant, i doubt it would ever be admisable in court against a US citizen for growing weed.

I think the gov't is faced with an ever evolving technological war to fight. The Chinese are hacking into our defense industry nightly.

All I need is one example of some dude who gets busted for nurturing his pot plant and I will carry the picket sign for you.

Apathy in the face of opression is the surest path to bondage.
There... I just made that little saying up... here is another...
The government takes liberties more readily than it returns them.
History backs that statement up.

How will you know if they've met your qualifications for abuse anyway??? It is all secret... They don't have to do things in US court... that's what Gitmo etc etc is for... we don't need due process.

And I resent your implication because I don't really care about druggies.

However, I will point you abuses of the DSEA and USA PATRIOT acts which were created to combat terrorism but federal law enforcement has comletely gone past the purposes by using it for a host of other crimes.

What we are talking about here isn't abuse of an existing draconian law, it is flat out illegal widespread spying on random US citizens without probably cause, warrant, or due process. I cannot understand how you are OK with this. Your attitude is "As long as they only go after the terrorists, I don't mind if they spy on me, my family, my friends, my neighbors, and the nuns at the convent."

That sounds a lot like: "Don't worry. If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to be afraid of."

Witchhunts and blanket surveilance are back. Joe McCarthy and J Edgar Hoover are grinning in their coffins.

You have the attitude that “We must trade some liberty for security."

This is my American attitude:
"Those who would give up Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Thank you Benjamin Franklin!

[MassLiberal]

he's right (I think I just threw up in my mouth, heh). If you don't think the government has been doing this for years upon years you are a fool.

not only that, but J. Edgar Hoover makes the current NSA look like choir boys.

again, if this database of phone calls prevents an attack I don't think there's going to be many people objecting to it. What is it already? 70% of the US approves of the NSA wiretapping. so it's not just the soft headed red staters that are in favor of this.

Do you possess the ability to tell the truth about anything? First of all, the number was 64% of the country and the question asked was do you believe "the National Security Agency [should] be allowed to intercept telephone conversations between terrorism suspects in other countries and people living in the United States."

I wonder why those numbers were so high?

[lemon boy]

again, if this database of phone calls prevents an attack I don't think there's going to be many people objecting to it. What is it already? 70% of the US approves of the NSA wiretapping. so it's not just the soft headed red staters that are in favor of this.

Neither of those things however makes it "right" or "okay." The whole sorry mess (actually a lot of things for a long while now) is sadly well outside the agreement that empowers the govt.

[mr_gyptian]

examples of liberals marching lockstep on issues?

One of the "problems" (depending on how you look at it), that the left has getting elected, is that they doesn't put aside it's differences within certain groups in order to form a unified message.

Ummh...Abortion? It doesn't get more lock step than that.

[Mcwop]

examples of liberals marching lockstep on issues?

One of the "problems" (depending on how you look at it), that the left has getting elected, is that they doesn't put aside it's differences within certain groups in order to form a unified message.

Examples - school vouchers, welfare reform, education, gay marriage, guns, tort reform, taxes, minimum wage laws, social security, health care reform.

Gore lost a ton of votes over gun control when he ran for President, becuase he moved in lockstep with his party.

Both parties tend to vote in lockstep. That has been the truth for decades.

I hate both parties more than ever. We need a third party.

[MassLiberal]

abortion? there are thousands of different views on abortion within the party, Democrats for life being one, Harry Reid, the democratic leader is pro life and has voted against the party many times.

Licoln Chaffee and Specter the lone two pro lifers on the right have sold out their views every chance they have had.

[MassLiberal]

Examples - school vouchers, welfare reform, education, gay marriage, guns, tort reform, taxes, minimum wage laws, social security, health care reform.

Gore lost a ton of votes over gun control when he ran for President, becuase he moved in lockstep with his party.

Both parties tend to vote in lockstep. That has been the truth for decades.

I hate both parties more than ever. We need a third party.

Who actually enacted welfare reform? Clinton.

Gay Marraige is only an issue because the republicans use it to scare their base.

Minimum wage laws? let's see you make it by on minimum wage.

Health care reform- are you kidding me? there is no one who is unified there, maybe if they were we'd have some progress.

[Cono Este]

Summit, i was not calling you a druggie. But I think you called me a retard.

Gypt. is right. This shit has been going on forever. My attitude is based upon the premise that most in here believe that it is all the neocons fault. Its been going on forever. And i have some issues with previous attempts to obtain this info for anti trust inforcement. Which is probably the one good example I asked for and never recieved. Instead I got Jose Padilla?

I do have a problem with certain wire tapping, but it is my opinion right now, wire tapping for national security purposes is justified. If these wire taps were in the August 2001 Brief Bush never read, people would have used them to further flog him.

and few democrats did anything to oppose these measures.

If you feel otherwise at least blame them all.

http://www.infowars.com/articles/bb/wiretap_city.htm

[MassLiberal]

Dude, no one is arguing against wiretapping, what the are arguing against is that they circumvented the law in order to do it. It's not like it would be really hard to get a warrant, but the fact that they want to do it without any oversight completely undercuts the values this country was founded on. and is therefore inexcusable.

[Cono Este]

abortion? there are thousands of different views on abortion within the party, Democrats for life being one, Harry Reid, the democratic leader is pro life and has voted against the party many times.

Licoln Chaffee and Specter the lone two pro lifers on the right have sold out their views every chance they have had.

And their are thousands of different views on abortion within the republican party. But you often lable all republicans as "neocons". But your not a liberal marching lockstep on anything, right?? Except the neocons thing.