Global Warming ... Nice Job Red Baron

[Xover]

don't know how many of you caught this lil 2 part piece on local SLC Fox news 2 night, but RB (as he always does) manages to get a truthful point across in the limited time he has. top notch buddy

bummed though that you used APD footy instead of me; would've made my spancers much more happy

oh, and speaking of spancers, i really hope for Trackhead's sake Str8 didn't see the newscast tonight. if he did, TH will surely have no clothes to wear next winter

[Red Baron]

heh, Derek and I were plotting to post a "special" version here - I was going to sub out the APD footage and put you in instead, and say something about living near the mountains so you can go "tumbing down the couloirs"...

oh, and it was an Eider shirt he had on.

[Xover]

oh, and it was an Eider shirt he had on.

hmmm, couldn't tell it from the segment .... TH needs to re-read spancership Rule #1

[AltaPowderDaze]

caught the end of the segment. which footage did you use, rb?

derek said he almost has enough footy of xover to do a full length crash segment.

[powstash]

derek said he almost has enough footy of xover to do a full length crash segment.

zing! BBWWWWAAAAHHHAAAAAAAHHAHAHAAAAA!

[Red Baron]

APD, I'll put a copy online so you can see it in a couple of days - I don't have one here at home and I'm out of the office until Saturday...

(edit) oh, and you guys would not believe some of the emails I've gotten from the "right" side of the political spectrum, calling me everything from "a parroting anti-capitalist" to stuff I won't even write here...

[skifishbum]

Damn nice report.
I watched it w/ the Mrs.
Another great excuse to ski everyday you can.
She wasn't buying that though.
Ya I'm sure Mag Corp and raping the enviorment is a much more viable econmical future for the state than ski tourism.
What will we change the license plates to?
Some how I don't think temperatures/the rain snow line and pollution levels were what they were shooting for with the "Life Elavated" slogan

[yentna]

I missed it, but it sounds like you nailed it! Waiting for a link to footage....

(And getting threatening calls from conservatives means you're on the right track if you're a liberal, no? )

[Tippster]

APD, I'll put a copy online so you can see it in a couple of days - I don't have one here at home and I'm out of the office until Saturday...

(edit) oh, and you guys would not believe some of the emails I've gotten from the "right" side of the political spectrum, calling me everything from "a parroting anti-capitalist" to stuff I won't even write here...

Dude - they're E-MAILS. Cut and paste for the choir, mang!

[Dantheman]

is it on the interweb?

[Xover]

Trackhead's got a new pimp; Str8 aint' cuttin' it anymore

www.stevebaron.com\climate.mov

[uglymoney]

Trackhead's got a new pimp; Str8 aint' cuttin' it anymore

www.stevebaron.com\climate.mov

http://www.stevebaron.com/climate.mov

Just finished with watching the report. Props Red Baron! A sad as this is, it is refreshing to see an accurate piece done on the local level. I like how you at least attempted to cut through the political shroud that clouds this issue for so many people. Why the hell shouldn't a conservative on the religious right care about the enviroment as much as a lefty liberal tree hugger?

As global warming because more and more obvious, I think that the forces entrenched against change are going to find it harder and harder to pull the wool over the eyes of their constituents, though I'm sure they'll give it their best shot.

I like the little segment on compact flourescent bulbs. I am 100% CF at my house and the payoff is huge every month. A simple step that everybody really should be taking, and really doesn't reduce quality of life. In fact, I think a tax on incandescent bulbs may make some sense in order to make LED's (the next wave of efficient lighting) and CF more attractive to the average consumer.

Solar/wind are nice options for people with resources, but adding insulation is probaby more feasible and affordable, with a quicker payoff to go along with that green all over feeling.

Nice work. One of the things I miss about living in a big city (Minneapolis in my case) was the occasional excellent media.

[LeeLau]

Nice piece. Too bad your viewers want to shoot the messenger

[splat]

hmmm, couldn't tell it from the segment .... TH needs to re-read spancership Rule #1

He didn't have to. I'd say he has it mammarized.

[Red Baron]

Glad you guys liked it; if you're having trouble watching or hearing the clip, you need to have the latest free version of Quicktime Player to watch it - I believe it's version 7.

I can't post the emails here, as much as I'd like, even stripping away the personal info it would be a violation of company policy. Putting the clip up is questionable enough already. Even though it's my work, I don't own the copyright so it's kind of a grey area.

Then again, I didn't put it up...I PM'ed it to a few people, and then it "magically" appeared here....

[Squatch]

An interesting (and pretty neutral) point of view: http://www.straightdope.com/columns/060407.html

In summary, there's very little that we can do about rising atmospheric CO2 levels, and any impact we have in the US would be small and negated by CO2 emission increases in the rest of the world.

I feel like there is a little bit of a "scare" tactic here, but I guess that makes for good TV.

Oh, one more thing. I like APD's prominent use of the side-slip.

[uglymoney]

An interesting (and pretty neutral) point of view: http://www.straightdope.com/columns/060407.html

In summary, there's very little that we can do about rising atmospheric CO2 levels, and any impact we have in the US would be small and negated by CO2 emission increases in the rest of the world.

I feel like there is a little bit of a "scare" tactic here, but I guess that makes for good TV.

Oh, one more thing. I like APD's prominent use of the side-slip.

Haha! That article claims that Bush may be redeemed in the future with this Asia-Pacific Partnership on Clean Development and Climate. Whatever. Bush has done what he could since the start of his administration to do nothing, or to roll back proposals that would help us use less energy.

Sorry but my memory is just not that short. Bush has been fucking up for a long time, and his redemption will come only if supply's of hydrocarbons prove limitless and global warming proves to be a farce - which is not going to happen.

For one:

http://www.nrdc.org/media/pressreleases/020523.asp

OE Shift on Air Conditioners: Cold Comfort to Consumers and the Environment

NEW YORK, NY (May 23, 2002) -- Today's effort by the Department of Energy (DOE) to weaken energy efficiency standards for air conditioners is yet another example of the Administration's attacks on the environment and its support for dirty energy sources over energy efficiency, according to NRDC (Natural Resources Defense Council). This latest rollback not only hurts the consumer and the environment, it also harms businesses that depend on a reliable electricity supply. And in this case, NRDC maintains, DOE's rollback violated the law.

DOE's action today is an attempt to overturn an energy efficiency standard, known as the "SEER 13" standard, issued by the Clinton administration DOE in January 2001, which required a 30% increase in efficiency. Over 15,000 organizations and members of the public, including President Bush's own Environmental Protection Agency, urged Secretary Abraham not to reduce the efficiency standards in this rule. Yet a rule published in the Federal Register today, attempts to set a lower energy efficiency standard of SEER 12, which means one-third of the savings from the higher standard will be lost.

"At a time when States like California and New York are both experiencing electricity shortages and struggling to meet clean air standards, the Bush Administration's decision to roll back air conditioner energy efficiency standards is arrogant and hypocritical," said David Goldstein, Ph.D., Co-Director of NRDC's Energy Program. "The Administration's energy plan emphasizes the importance of avoiding blackouts and reducing the costs of energy. Vice President Cheney has said 'we're going to encourage [energy efficiency] in every way possible'. But this rule takes America in the opposite direction -- toward energy insecurity and higher utility bills.

If DOE succeeds in rolling back the SEER 13 standard, electric blackouts and brownouts during summer months will be more likely and electricity markets will be more vulnerable to Enron-style manipulation, Goldstein predicted. "Big energy companies will also be the only winners when America has to build 48 unnecessary power plants by 2020."

"DOE claims that the rollback will 'protect' consumers, low-income residents and states with colder climates," added Goldstein. "But consumer and low-income groups such as the Consumer Federation of America and Northern states such as Vermont and Maine recognize that the stronger standard is better for them. They have actually joined NRDC in suing DOE to challenge this rollback. It looks like DOE is really trying to protect backward-thinking air conditioners manufacturers who don't want to compete and innovate with new, more efficient products."

Goldstein noted that not all manufacturers support the DOE rollback. Goodman Manufacturing, the nation's second largest air conditioning manufacturer and the maker of Amana®, GmC®, Goodman® and Janitrol® air conditioners, along with small manufacturers Goettle and Addison, support the SEER 13 standard.

NRDC has brought a legal challenge against the DOE rollback with the States of New York, California, Nevada, New Jersey, Connecticut, Maine and Vermont, as well as Consumer Federation of America, a national consumer group, and the Public Utility Law Project, a New York- based low-income energy group. The legal challenge is pending in the federal United States Court of Appeals for the Second Circuit.

"NRDC will continue to fight this illegal and illogical rollback in the courts," said NRDC Senior Attorney Katherine Kennedy. "By moving from SEER 13 to SEER 12, DOE is violating federal energy law, which specifically prohibits DOE from weakening energy efficiency standards."

[Squatch]

blah blah fuck bush blah blah

I really don't care about bush, or what he says or does. there's plenty of bush-bashing threads that you can jump in anyways, why cunt this one up. politics aside, what's your point?

[uglymoney]

My point is, I don't think that article was exactly fair and balanced, unless you are speaking of the FOX network's definition of the phrase.

I stay out of most of the overtly political threads and rarely bash Bush per say for the sake of it. Pointing out what I consider policy flaws in an area that I am interested in is a different matter.

[Squatch]

i was meaning scientifically balanced. and in fairness, the straight dope isn't sucking anyone's dick here. moreover, he makes no mention of domestic policy, only international policy, which are two different beasts.

[Jer]

An interesting (and pretty neutral) point of view: http://www.straightdope.com/columns/060407.html

It ain't neutral, sorry to say.

Cecil: "So here we go: Are greenhouse-gas emissions from our fuel-guzzling cars, power plants, etc, a significant contributor to potentially catastrophic climate change? Answer: Beats me. "

Hold it right there.

Cecil sez he doesn't know the answer to the question. A basic question whose answer is known. He's dodging, hard.

Then our clueless wonder who self-deprecatingly terms himself "a weekly alternative newspaper columnist" goes on to answer a much more difficult question, throws down a bunch of unexamined crap, and, without skipping a beat, salutes a do-nothing "Asia Pacific Partnership" as the greatest thing since the Iraq war.

Cecil's colors are showing - maybe he's playing with himself, but straight it ain't.

To say Baron's piece tops that wouldn't be a compliment.

[uglymoney]

Alright, but our domestic policy is what Kyoto tries to address in an international agreement.

We burn 26% of the worlds petroleum, and I am sure our percentage of overall fossil fuel consumption is similar, so we can make a difference. The article you posted implies that we can do little in light of ever increasing third world demand. To me, that is ridiculous in light of our role in the world. We should be taking the lead, not cutting off the heads of the leaders who don't dismiss the worlds scientific body like Bush has done repeatedly.

Also the article states that reducing fossil fuel consumption reduces economic activity, which is simple view that is simply not true. Increased efficiency means just that, same amount of work done with less energy input. If energy prices continue to rise, the third world will become even less competitive and so will the US if we continue down our current path of wasteful energy use. We need to cut the fat if we are going to compete through the next century. Fully compatible with CO2 reduction.

I don't think that Red Barons piece was using 'scare tactics' in the name of ratings. Listening to many top scientists speak of the dangers of global warming is scary. The experts he interviewed were talking about the loss of snowpack and our ability to ski. Hardly horror film material.

I just look at the situation and see win, win, win, if we take action. I don't see where we lose, and so I'm baffled as to why we don't take more immediate steps to curb CO2 output.

Thanks for the discussion Squatch. I wasn't hammering on you for posting the link, just hammering on the link a little.

[Squatch]

Cecil: "So here we go: Are greenhouse-gas emissions from our fuel-guzzling cars, power plants, etc, a significant contributor to potentially catastrophic climate change? Answer: Beats me. "

Hold it right there.

Cecil sez he doesn't know the answer to the question. A basic question whose answer is known. He's dodging, hard.

Alright, you want to dissect the argument? Let's start from the very broadest case. Is global warming truly catastrophic climate change? No. Or at least, not currently, and not in the past. The future, however, is unknown...and it's an outright lie to say that it is known and established that global warming is "catastrophic" in any way. In fact, the times the earth has had problems with global temperatures were when the temps went down, a la the various Ice Ages.

The main point of the article is that what we do, especially in the US, will have insignificant effects on the temperature cycles. It's pointless to preach about this stuff as if it's gospel, because the numbers are all over the place for many reputable studies. Many of the global warming arguments reek of the same stuff as was present in 1960s/70s studies that feared we'd be dead by now. I got news for all the chicken littles out there: we're not dead, and there will still be skiing in the winter.

[Squatch]

uglymoney: i'm pretty sure that telling people in UT that there'd be no more skiing is tantamount to horror-film material. no skiing + wet mtb trails, and you're gonna have to relax your liquor laws pretty hard to make it livable there. just look at the midwest.

i think expecting developing nations to get their growth efficiently is a big task. think of the US...frankly, we were built on filth. Our factories sucked, were polluting in obscene amounts, and were dangerous to work in. we had to establish a baseline level of success before we could start implementing safety and environmental regulations. it's going to be difficult to hold developing nations to that standard, unless we assist them. that's the point of the US/Asia coalition (sp?) to try and increase efficiency, and the final line of cecil's argument. the point i'm trying to make is that someone saying that, forgetting all else, bringing efficiency and higher standards of environmental cleanliness to developing nations is a good thing doesn't make some pro-Bush, fuck the environment guy.

[uglymoney]

Yeah, I remember when they were talking about the possibility of entire coastal communites being flooded. How ridiculous!



Anyway, I never try to convince the unconvinceable, so I'll stick with a picture that is easy to understand, and indisputable.