Iran Nuclear Situation (Recent SCARY Developments NSR)

[MassLiberal]

a direct strike on paris would be particularly delicous. Imagine, one of their client states razing their capitol city. heh. maybe then they'd take responsibility for a century of bankrupt foreign policy.

Yeah, because millions of innocent people dying is hilarious.

[summit]

a direct strike on paris would be particularly delicous. Imagine, one of their client states razing their capitol city. heh. maybe then they'd take responsibility for a century of bankrupt foreign policy.

That irony isn't funny... or are you just being a moron?

[mr_gyptian]

Yeah, because millions of innocent people dying is hilarious.

not people, the French. I'm only half kidding. but maybe Jack Straw and de Villepin would like to continue stroking Iran?

the bullshit part of this whole dance is that Israel will end it. Not that it's their personal responsibility, but because they understand the stakes like no one else does. It should be the French, Spanish, Italian, Polish, and Russian military sitting on the Iranian borders champing at the bit. will they? doubtful, just like the cold war it is up to the US to provide the muscle. which is fine when a person with neocon's advising him is in office, but if detente/realist douche was in office Israel would have struck already. Fuck, even Reagan scolded Israel for Osirak.

[freshie247]

You mean by threatening to wipe the Taliban off the face of the earth when they were in control of Afghanistan for the first time?

Yeah, huge supporter of terrorism.

I'm glad to see plenty of people are spewing their brains out with heresay and bullshit pulled off Fox etc. while backing nothing up with fact.

And I'm pretty sure if you do the math, the US is the largest supporter of "terrorism"

Put Hussein in power.
Left Afghanistan ripe for the Taliban to take over.
Pumped billions into Afghanistan in weapons, vehicles, and training.
For fucks sake go take a history course or something.

Hey Dude,
Maybe it's time to reconsider upping your hourly dosage,do the walls seem to be closing in on you again?!

I don't usually bite for such weak trolls,but it's a slow day today.MAYBE you should do some research as well.1st off ,I'm not a republican,I don't watch Fox,I don't like Nixon,Reagan,or the Bush family.I think the war in Iraq is a GIANT CLuster-F*CK.I must say that the Nixon admin's idea of opening relations with China to spread mistrust between them & the USSR was brilliant.

We didn't put Saddam in power, His uncle "did" because he was prez after the Bathist take over & Saddam had the real power as he ran the secret police. The US simply gave Saddam billions in money , weapons,& intelligence because he fought our arch enemy the Iranians, while at the same time using cocaine money from the Contras to funnel weapons to the Iranians.But that's academic.

Lets get to the point. Iran has become the worlds most masterful at being the faceless power behind terrorism.Assasinations in Britain & around the world of dissidents,the Iranians,The Beruit truck bombing , the Iranians.Attacks in Saudi Arabia (Khobar)have been linked to the Iranians.Virtually every attack on Israelis around the world in the last 25 years was an Iranian plotted or assisted act.I'm no fan of the Israelis ,but that doesn't mean that terrorist attacks against them aren't terrorist attacks just because I'm not a fan.

We left Afganistan ripe for a Taliban take over? There were many years of infighting between warlords before the Taliban came to power.Talk about hypocrisy,We mind our own business & we let it happen,we get involved & were taking over,Well, which is it?

Big deal,so Shia Iran hated the Sunni Taliban.Sunnis & the Shia have been killing each other for control of Islam for 1,400 years,What makes you think that this will ever stop?It is only posponed while there are "infidels" to kill.Muslims & particularly Afganis are renowed for switching alliances as it suits their immediate needs ,hence former sworn enemies,Taliban & Warlords,are now together in Afganistan,& Islamic fundamentalists & secular Bathists in Iraq.

You forgot to mention that we (the US)made Osama by putting him in charge of the money & weapons we sent to Afganistan.

Don't believe me about Iran,there is a plethora of info about Iranian sponsored terrorism that goes all the way back to the Islamic Revolution read this Gov paper :

1996 Global Terrorism: Overview of State-Sponsored Terrorism http://www.fas.org/irp/threat/terror_96/overview.html

Or this http://www.ict.org.il/articles/artic...?articleid=429

Or this http://www.washingtoninstitute.org/t...5.php?CID=1483

Or this http://www.state.gov/s/ct/rls/crt/2000/2441.htm

I'm sorry to overstate the blatantly over-obvious,but I'm not the one that didn't do their homework.PLease do yours before wasting anyone elses time.

[summit]

the bullshit part of this whole dance is that Israel will end it. Not that it's their personal responsibility, but because they understand the stakes like no one else does. ... [the neocons'll git'r done!] if detente/realist douche was in office Israel would have struck already. Fuck, even Reagan scolded Israel for Osirak.

Remember, Iran tried to bomb the Iraqi Osirik Nuclear Reactor before the Israelis did. The Iranians screwed it up so the Israelis went and finished it.

However, this isn't a dozen F-15s striking a single unfueled reactor just outside of Bagdahd. We are talking many hardened targets spread across Iran. The Israelis will have to violate Jordanian and US controlled Iraqi airspace to do this (our E-3s will see them from takeoff to strike). The IAF can strike the Western edge of Iran with most of their F-16s and F-15s (maybe A-4s). As you go into central Iran only their F-15s and some F-16s can still operate. The options are even smaller for targets in Eastern Iran. In order to use more planes than that, the Israelis would have to use their tankers over Iraqi airspace.

A first strike intended to disable or disarm Iran must take place over a short period of time to deny the Iranians the ability to move critical materials. The US has the ability to perform such strikes because we have cruise missiles, bombers like the B1B and B2, and large numbers of strike aircraft in our carrier battle groups and based in Iraq/Afghanistan.

I dont' know how many targets they'd have to hit or where they are, but I don't know if Israel could pull it off.

PS. Some experts predict a US airstrike on Iran would almost ensure an Iranian incursion across the Iran-Iraq border.

[Tippster]

You people are kidding yourselves if you think anyone is gonna bomb Iran. You're also kidding yourselves if you think we can easily beat them in a conventional war. Iraq - a flat open desert, easy to move through. Look at the topography of Iran, then remember the problems we've had with finding Osama in similar terrain along the Afghani/Pakistani border.

[Free Range Lobster]

You forgot to mention that we (the US)made Osama by putting him in charge of the money & weapons we sent to Afganistan.

Really? We did?

Maybe you should read Charlie Wilson's War and Taliban by Ahmed Rashid
Because he didn't show up until the end of the game.

Btw, did you even bother reading those articles you posted completely?
They don't do much in a way of supporting your claims considering they're all opinion with no real evidence saying "Iran backed terrorists".
Mostly just "well so and so was smuggled through Iran"
or
"Well Iran gave money to this person then that person gave money to this terrorist group."

But you know, its pretty obvious that we support terrorists here considering we've all bought plane tickets which support airlines which support aircraft builders which built the planes that crashed into the world trade center.

[char]

We left Afganistan ripe for a Taliban take over? There were many years of infighting between warlords before the Taliban came to power.Talk about hypocrisy,We mind our own business & we let it happen,we get involved & were taking over,Well, which is it?

Big deal,so Shia Iran hated the Sunni Taliban.Sunnis & the Shia have been killing each other for control of Islam for 1,400 years,What makes you think that this will ever stop?It is only posponed while there are "infidels" to kill.Muslims & particularly Afganis are renowed for switching alliances as it suits their immediate needs ,hence former sworn enemies,Taliban & Warlords,are now together in Afganistan,& Islamic fundamentalists & secular Bathists in Iraq.

You forgot to mention that we (the US)made Osama by putting him in charge of the money & weapons we sent to Afganistan.

Don't believe me about Iran,there is a plethora of info about Iranian sponsored terrorism that goes all the way back to the Islamic Revolution read this Gov paper :

1996 Global Terrorism: Overview of State-Sponsored Terrorism http://www.fas.org/irp/threat/terror_96/overview.html

Or this http://www.ict.org.il/articles/artic...?articleid=429

Or this http://www.washingtoninstitute.org/t...5.php?CID=1483

Or this http://www.state.gov/s/ct/rls/crt/2000/2441.htm

I'm sorry to overstate the blatantly over-obvious,but I'm not the one that didn't do their homework.PLease do yours before wasting anyone elses time.

We "made" OBL? Dude, we hardly even knew who OBL was until the mid-90's. Almost all of the weapons smuggled into Afganistan during the cold war went through Pakistans ISI. Let me repeat that. Pakistani Intelligence agents were in charge of most of the weapons, training camps and money flowing to Afganistan rebels during the cold war. The CIA bought weapons and shipped them to Pakistan where the ISI took control of them and decided who got what. In effect, Pakistan chose who got the goods and who came out ahead in the end. We didn't care who got what because our goal was to get the Soviets out.

When the Soviets withdrew Pakistan latched onto the Taliban as a way to induce some sort of stability in Afganistan. The Soviets were out of Afganistan, so the US didn't give a shit, in effect, Pakistani policy on Afganistan became US policy on Afganistan. Certain elements of the US intelligence community attempted mulitiple times to convince the leadership (Clinton) to snatch OBL, which never happened.

Furthermore, the Saudi's and United Arab Emirates pumped way more cash into Afganistan than we ever did. And they supported the Taliban.

[end hijack]

[char]

You people are kidding yourselves if you think anyone is gonna bomb Iran. You're also kidding yourselves if you think we can easily beat them in a conventional war. Iraq - a flat open desert, easy to move through. Look at the topography of Iran, then remember the problems we've had with finding Osama in similar terrain along the Afghani/Pakistani border.

What worries me is that recent events with Iran seem to mirror the runup to invading Iraq.

Accuse Iran of having or developing a WMD program, take it to the UN, the UN Security Council passes a resolution which they won't enforce and then the US has cause to sidestep the UN again.

Bombing? Maybe. Invasion? No.

[summit]

Let me see if I understand likwid's style of debate...

The Glorious Islamic Republic of Iran is a wonderful peacefull place where perfect little children live golden lollypop dreams. They love everybody and everyone loves them! They don't fund Hezbollah! That is a Zionist American Lie! They thought they were dontating to the Lollypop Fund for Lebanon!

Did I mention that everything is The Great Satan America's fault?

It's all so clear to me now.

[Free Range Lobster]

And thank you char for the short version of Charlie Wilson's War.

[Free Range Lobster]

I'm a jew and im afraid the motherland is gonna get blown up! Even though its not really the motherland and we're really direct relatives to everyone else in the middle east *posts 12 page dissertation on how Arabs and Jews are one in the same which was banned from Israel*. Oh yeah and im a fucking retard in the middle of bumfuck nowhere with a dirtbag job but im still a republican even though they're raping me twelve ways to tuesday! hooray!

Glad we're on even terms there chief.

Edit: Forgot to edit in that part about jews = arabs.

[edg]

Let me see if I understand likwid's style of debate...



It's all so clear to me now.

Making unfunny shit up to support your argument -> So hot right now.

edg

[PNWbrit]

Remember, Iran tried to bomb the Iraqi Osirik Nuclear Reactor before the Israelis did. The Iranians screwed it up so the Israelis went and finished it.

However, this isn't a dozen F-15s striking a single unfueled reactor just outside of Bagdahd. We are talking many hardened targets spread across Iran. The Israelis will have to violate Jordanian and US controlled Iraqi airspace to do this (our E-3s will see them from takeoff to strike). The IAF can strike the Western edge of Iran with most of their F-16s and F-15s (maybe A-4s). As you go into central Iran only their F-15s and some F-16s can still operate. The options are even smaller for targets in Eastern Iran. In order to use more planes than that, the Israelis would have to use their tankers over Iraqi airspace.

A first strike intended to disable or disarm Iran must take place over a short period of time to deny the Iranians the ability to move critical materials. The US has the ability to perform such strikes because we have cruise missiles, bombers like the B1B and B2, and large numbers of strike aircraft in our carrier battle groups and based in Iraq/Afghanistan.

I dont' know how many targets they'd have to hit or where they are, but I don't know if Israel could pull it off.

PS. Some experts predict a US airstrike on Iran would almost ensure an Iranian incursion across the Iran-Iraq border.

I think Summit had a lot of model airplanes hanging from his ceiling when he was a kid - perhaps he still does?

[summit]

Making unfunny shit up to support your argument...

hmm I thought it was way funnier shit than:

SUMMIT IS A JEWWWWWWWWWWWWW!!!!!!!!!!!!

Nice creative insult there, your 88 is showing through...

ps. I'm still not a Republican or a W supporter no matter how much that would turn you on.

[Tin Woodsman]

Making unfunny shit up to support your argument -> So hot right now.

edg

I'm a jew and im afraid the motherland is gonna get blown up! Even though its not really the motherland and we're really direct relatives to everyone else in the middle east *posts 12 page dissertation on how Arabs and Jews are one in the same which was banned from Israel*. Oh yeah and im a fucking retard in the middle of bumfuck nowhere with a dirtbag job but im still a republican even though they're raping me twelve ways to tuesday! hooray!

Indeed it is.

Edit:

Originally Posted by likwid
SUMMIT IS A JEWWWWWWWWWWWWW!!!!!!!!!!!!

WTF is up with that shit? Talk about weak sauce.

[summit]

WTF is up with that shit?

The opening line of his post?

I did make the mistake of stooping to his standard level of engagement. He has more experience... 90% of the threads I start are about skiing... 90% of likwid threads are NSR political or sailing threads (and the rest are gearswap threads)

Page 5 before the trhead devolved is pretty darn good for here though.

-----------------------------

Never had any airplanes on my ceiling as a kid... but being an airforce brat I learned everything I could about how we were gonna shoot down them ruskies...

-----------------------

I can see it in the backroom now:

France: "So... sanctions anybody?"
US: "Israel we think you should blow them up since we are nice to you all the time."
Israel: "So we can get suicide bombed all day long? Your planes are closer and you haev more of em. You blow em up."
US: "But we are already in deep doodoo with the Muslims and Iraq! You do it!"
Israel: "No you do it!"
US: "No you!
Israel: "You!"
Iran: "Guess what I just built while you guys were arguing?"

CNN: "2 of the 3 axis of evil nations are now nuclear powers!"
W: "Poopykins, is it possible to have an approval rating less than zero?"
Rumsfield: "You wouldn't think so but..."

[PNWbrit]

Never had any airplanes on my ceiling as a kid... but being an airforce brat I learned everything I could about how we were gonna shoot down them ruskies..."

When you start quoting all that f-37TypeZLightninghawkstealthcruisinghyperspacemille niumfalconstuff I imagine you making all the sound effects -"woosh, bang, dadadadada, zing, pow, boom, take that Ali Al Muslim dude"

[mr_gyptian]

You people are kidding yourselves if you think anyone is gonna bomb Iran. You're also kidding yourselves if you think we can easily beat them in a conventional war. Iraq - a flat open desert, easy to move through. Look at the topography of Iran, then remember the problems we've had with finding Osama in similar terrain along the Afghani/Pakistani border.

Iran isn't Switzerland. They're stupidly playing fast and loose with Iraq's northern border as we speak. playing right into Bush's hands. hopefully bush and Rummy are "dumb/crazy" enough to do something about it. sadly, no one else will do anything. shrug.

[AstroPax]

However, this isn't a dozen F-15s striking a single unfueled reactor just outside of Bagdahd.

Actually, it was eight F-16's that acually dropped the bombs. The F-15's provided escort.

Israel didn't even have the air-to ground variant of the F-15, the F-15I (aka Israeli Strike Eagle) until 1997.

Just thought I would clear that up.

-Astro

[Tippster]

Iran isn't Switzerland. They're stupidly playing fast and loose with Iraq's northern border as we speak. playing right into Bush's hands. hopefully bush and Rummy are "dumb/crazy" enough to do something about it. sadly, no one else will do anything. shrug.

Oh, you mean that border arbitrarily created by the Brits? What are you talking about, btw - they haven't invaded Iraq. What's happening up there is a migration of Kurds, who see themselves (rightfully, IMHO) as neither Iraqi or Iranian. That border is loose because all parties want it that way. We're as culpable as the Iranians in that respect...

And hoping we bomb some more innocents just because we can is just disgusting. Fuck you and those who think like you.

[freshie247]

The US had a pipeline of weapons into Afganistan within 10 days of the Soviet invasion.The Bin Laden Family has had very close ties with the US for a very long time.It's not a great leap to think that the Admin would use conduits that those know to help with the process.

If we hardly knew who he was, why did Reagan admin personel mention him on public record.Even this has been up for speculation.We all have our opinions, & that's just what they are. You've got your facts to support your conclusions,others have theirs.

[summit]

Astropax - Right you are!

--------

I hope there is some way to keep the Iranians from gaining a nukeshort of bombing them. Right now the only thing I see is
1. Israelis do the job so we don't have to... still crappy
2. Miracle

Remember the Iranians are not starving like the North Koreans so they can't pretend to take a payoff while still enriching. They's rich biatch!

What is there for diplomatic leverage? We don't have anything they want that we won't end up giving them anyway in exchange for oil. With Russia and China on their side the UN is rather impotent to impose sanctions...

[bbirtle]

Sorry for playing the unpatriotic American expat on this one but...

"If Iran, North Korea, or Sudan want to develop nuclear weapons, what gives u.s. the right to say we can and they can't?"

This is the question that's always on my mind when I read the developing events. Yeah sure those places are full of nasties. I'd definitely sleep easier if they didn't have nuclear weapons. But how can we as a country say "you can't!" at the same time we continue to enhance and develop our own nuclear weapons programs? When the USA continues to maintain the largest nuclear missle arsenal in the world?

Many nations consider the US a threat to their security and want to develop nuclear weapons as a deterent towards that threat. That sucks ass dude. I'm not sure the solution. But it seems like justifying an invasion of Iran on these grounds logically would justify an invasion of the United States on the same grounds. Unfortunately, it just doesn't work.

[Blurred]

Sorry for playing the unpatriotic American expat on this one but...

"If Iran, North Korea, or Sudan want to develop nuclear weapons, what gives u.s. the right to say we can and they can't?"

This is the question that's always on my mind when I read the developing events. Yeah sure those places are full of nasties. I'd definitely sleep easier if they didn't have nuclear weapons. But how can we as a country say "you can't!" at the same time we continue to enhance and develop our own nuclear weapons programs? When the USA continues to maintain the largest nuclear missle arsenal in the world?

Many nations consider the US a threat to their security and want to develop nuclear weapons as a deterent towards that threat. That sucks ass dude. I'm not sure the solution. But it seems like justifying an invasion of Iran on these grounds logically would justify an invasion of the United States on the same grounds. Unfortunately, it just doesn't work.

Everybody in the world should be packing a gun too, right? I mean fair is fair.