Iran Nuclear Situation (Recent SCARY Developments NSR)

[splat]

Of course, in other news, everyone will get a $100 rebate to buy gas. Why?
Because, as Bush says, "America is addicted to oil."

Not addicted to a functional mass transit concept.
Not addicted to solar energy.
Not addicted to energy efficiency.
Not addicted to lessening population growth.
Not addicted to self-sufficiency.

And, most certainly, not addicted to sensibility.



I love that part where the government will give everyone $100 to give to the oil companies.
That's so nice of them.

[runethechamp]

I can understand why Iran wants nuclear weapons. They are just trying to protect themselves from an attack from W or somebody equally stupid. They only need to reach Israel with their missiles to prevent this kind of attack. Yeah, the US and Great Britain and now France seem concerned, but Iran hasn't really been an aggressive nation before, have they? If we want nuclear weapons to protect ourselves, why shouldn't any other nation be allowed to do the same?

[CantDog]

Heh, that map says 'no dong'.

[nutcase]

I love that part where the government will give everyone $100 to give to the oil companies.
That's so nice of them.

Yeah. That's good stuff.

[buckethead]

I love that part where the government will give everyone $100 to give to the oil companies.
That's so nice of them.

and this innovative program is to be paid for by...drum roll:

THE DRILLING OF ALASKA (as reported on NPR this afternoon)

maybe now they'll finally get to do it, being that we Americans have bought into all sorts of bad ideas for less than that


some good news sites...though might not be news to most
http://www.commondreams.org/
http://www.democracynow.org/streampage.pl
http://www.truthout.org/index.htm
http://www.counterpunch.org/

[crstlextrm]

I love that part where the government will give everyone $100 to give to the oil companies.
That's so nice of them.

yeah that is kinda fucked up, but I kinda am addicted to oil like tyrone bigguns is addicted to crack so fuck, I will gladly take it.

[Squatch]

on the other hand, nuclear winter will make powder skis that much better. looks like we've solved our global warming issue.


but seriously, i doubt the situation is as dire as summit has summarized. Although N. Korea probably is pretty lonely. Maybe someone can send him, you know, a care basket or something.

[The AD]

The "No Dong" is now my favorite name for a missile.

[Squatch]

The "No Dong" is now my favorite name for a missile.

And you think packing heat means you are compensating for something...what about a fucking nuclear missle? That's some serious insecurity.

[flatlander420]

The Bush lovers have spoken!

no more acid flatlander,

you just sound crazy

So I am crazy and on Acid, interesting.

So the Japs had oil?

I had no idea....

No they didn't, but the USA had no problem nuking them and killing hundreds of thousands of people.

sorry low budget, this guy just beat you with the dumbest post of all time

Ok, you may think my facts are dumb,thats your own opinion. Arrogance and ignorance my friend.................

Oh well, lets go back to talking about skiing

[summit]

g'damn flatlander420... whatever drugs you are on, stop taking them... or take more I'm not sure... then maybe read a history book....

[Arty50]

7. Russia announced that their Tu-160 strategic bombers (nuclear) penetrated US airspace without detection.

I highly doubt this. The Blackjack is largely considered to be a copy of the B1. In addition, it's much larger than the B1. The B1 is hardly stealthy. Sure it's radar signature isn't as large as a traditional plane of it's size, but it's not invisible. So tell me how a much larger plane of essentially the same size is going to suddenly be invisible. I call bullshit.

More importantly, Russia isn't stupid. The only reason Russia is going to launch a nuclear strike against the US is if we hit them first. And there's no reason for that to happen. Nuclear war between the two superpowers is a thing of the past. Russia is much too dependent on the US nowadays to even dare fucking with us. Besides, we get along pretty well with them right now.

[summit]

I tire of people whose understanding of the depths of politics whether domestic or international only goes about as far far as "Bush Sucks/Rules. America Sucks/Rules." These dogmatic morons are often the most vocal as well.

Splat and several others see the game at play on the Iran issue.

China and Russia are very smart players here. This is international diplomacy being used as a tool to cover the real game. China and Russia are well aware that a nuclear Iran is unacceptable to the West. They also know Iran will not back down, especially when behind the scenes they are pushing Iran forward and publicly backing them in diplomacy. They know diplomacy will not work, as it clearly has not. This knowledge allows them to call for a diplomatic solutions while rattling their sabers against the West to embolden Iran. The end goal is to force a confrontation between their proxy and the US/Europe.

To what *particular* end it is not entirely clear. Perhaps China sees it as a way to get oil. Post-Soviet Russia has long been afraid of its waning influence while its former sattellite states cozy to the EU and US, joining NATO. Perhaps China and Russia are sore that NK went nuclear. Perhaps China thinks that the confrontation could push the US off the top of the heap allowing it to continue its push to expand its sphere of influence. Maybe it is none of that. Who knows what exactly the goal here is. Two thing is for sure:

1. The West will not tolerate a nuclear Iran.
2. Russia and China are aware that Bush will utilize force to prevent this.

---------------------------------------

America has guns and bombs and stuff!

Good heavens, neither or China or Iran want to go head to head in a conventional war against NATO. They would be crushed militarily. Both of these countries also are well aware of the futility of a nuclear exchange. Neither is going to be directly interfering militarily if the US were to strike Iran anymore than they directly interfered in the Iraq conflict. They provided intelligence and material support to some extent.

----------------------------------------

Remember that idiotic Axis of Evil speech?
Iraq + Iran + North Korea

4 years later:
North Korea - Acquired long range ballistic missiles and nuclear weapons
Iran - Acquired long range ballistic missiles and building nuclear weapons
Iraq - Occupied by US

Sweet!

on the other hand, nuclear winter will make powder skis that much better. looks like we've solved our global warming issue.

It makes night skiing simple!

And a few misunderstandings:

I can understand why Iran wants nuclear weapons. They are just trying to protect themselves from an attack from W or somebody equally stupid. They only need to reach Israel with their missiles to prevent this kind of attack. Yeah, the US and Great Britain and now France seem concerned, but Iran hasn't really been an aggressive nation before, have they? If we want nuclear weapons to protect ourselves, why shouldn't any other nation be allowed to do the same?

You are a niave about the implications of nuclear weapons and the geopolitics of the region. You haven't paid much attention to what Iran has been up to for the last 30 years.

I give you far more credit than the "Let's hand out nukes like candy" genious though.

...not to mention that whatever supposed legitimacy the US had as a signatory to the nuclear non-proliferation treaty re: Iran was pissed away when Bush went to India and granted their previously illegal nuke program his blessings...

India has has been a nuclear power for 32 years!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Shouldn't you be pissed at Gerald Ford or something?

[freshie247]

[QUOTE=runethechamp] but Iran hasn't really been an aggressive nation before, have they? QUOTE]

I beg to differ:since the 79 revolution, Iran has been the worlds largest supporter & financer of Terrorism.They've had 25 years to put their network in place & I wouldn't be suprised if they gave any number of weapons at their disposal to their "field operatives" if they thought an attack was coming.

[mc_roon]

7. Russia announced that their Tu-160 strategic bombers (nuclear) penetrated US airspace without detection.

Doesnt US airspace go out like 50 miles over the ocean? I bet there are some areas in the ass-end of alaska that it would be possible for a 777 to go without detection. Now, if they flew over california or DC without detection, then i would be worried.

[summit]

I highly doubt this. The Blackjack is largely considered to be a copy of the B1. In addition, it's much larger than the B1. The B1 is hardly stealthy. Sure it's radar signature isn't as large as a traditional plane of it's size, but it's not invisible. So tell me how a much larger plane of essentially the same size is going to suddenly be invisible. I call bullshit.

More importantly, Russia isn't stupid. The only reason Russia is going to launch a nuclear strike against the US is if we hit them first. And there's no reason for that to happen. Nuclear war between the two superpowers is a thing of the past. Russia is much too dependent on the US nowadays to even dare fucking with us. Besides, we get along pretty well with them right now.

I never meant to imply that they were intending to launch a nuclear first strike. The timing is suspicious given the situation with Iran. This is posturing for political purposes, not them threatening us so much.

The B-1B actually has a small RCS on par with a car. The number they always say is "1/50th the RCS of a B-52." The Tu-160 is larger than a B-1B but is also designed with reduced visibility in mind. The Ruskies claim it has a smaller RCS than a B-1B. Looking at the design I'd doubt that (look at the engine inlets) but I'm no expert there.

So I don't think it is necessarily impossible that they penetrated North American airpspace, especially depending on where they went (say over the pole where we dismantled most of our early warning radars in the 90s except BMEWS and NWS lines). Would a low level penetration not be seen by the NWS line? However, I'm no US/Russian capabilities expert...

As for US/Russian buddy buddyness... the Russian President was the former head of the KGB. Have you watched his "reforms?" Surely, he wouldn't possibly scheme...

April 25, 2006
A senior Russian air force commander has claimed that new, upgraded Tu-160 bomber aircraft were unchallenged by US air defense systems when they penetrated a radar zone near the Canadian coast in US territory during an April training exercise, reports the Russian news agency RIA Novosti.

Commander of Russia's long-range strategic bombers, Lieutenant General Igor Khvorov said that the bombers successfully carried out four mock Tu-95MS cruise missile launches, 200 mock bombings, and 53 mock sorties during the exercise. The RIA Novosti reported that the United States Air Force is currently investigating how the Tu-160's escaped detection.

Lieutenant General Igor Khvorov said, "They were unable to detect the planes either with radars or visually."

Khvorov denies any link of the tests to the current US-Iranian tension, saying, "Of course, our exercises did not have anything to do with the situation in Iran, but their organization indirectly echoed in that region." ...

Additional links:
Link 1
Link 2
Link 3

Iran receives ballistic missiles ranged to Europe:
Reuters.com

[tarkman1]

1980 Iran, let's get 'em.

1991-now - Saddam, let's get 'im.

now - Iran, let's get 'em.

Really, why does Iran need to be detered about nuclear weapons? Restate that to be, what good will it do? Is it possible? At what cost?

I really do find it a bit holier than thou for the US to be so adamant about other not having nukes. Holier than thou is exactly the type of mentality that is troublesome in that area.

The West will always have problems in the Mid-East with the current mentality. Check the terrain of Iran, it tends to be rugged. I wouldn't want to fight there.

[summit]

but Iran hasn't really been an aggressive nation before, have they?

I beg to differ:since the 79 revolution, Iran has been the worlds largest supporter & financer of Terrorism.They've had 25 years to put their network in place & I wouldn't be suprised if they gave any number of weapons at their disposal to their "field operatives" if they thought an attack was coming.

Kinda makes you wonder what would happen in the days after a disarming/decapitating first strike by the US against Iran. Iran has had chemical/biological weapons for some time now.

PS. Hey Bush, if you do end up whacking Iran, make sure you nail *all* their IRBMs. Terrorism aside, it would suck to have to explain the anthrax or VX rocket that hits Rome or Paris...

Doesnt US airspace go out like 50 miles over the ocean? I bet there are some areas in the ass-end of alaska that it would be possible for a 777 to go without detection. Now, if they flew over california or DC without detection, then i would be worried.

They don't have to fly over Cali or DC to launch their nuclear cruise missiles. The Tu-160 is about the same size as a 777.

We'd also like to have some warning that an attack is coming so that we can intercept them.

This is why the US and Canada developed the DEW (Distant Early Warning) line and Pine Tree line in the 50/60s and the North Warning System (NWS) in the 80s. The NWS has at least 15 long range radars and 40 short range radars. The interweb says the long range radars have ranges of at least 250nm OTH capability.

Would you have build a radar line with gaping holes in it for the Soviets to waltz through? That seems a bit silly...

I really do find it a bit holier than thou for the US to be so adamant about other not having nukes. Holier than thou is exactly the type of mentality that is troublesome in that area.

The West will always have problems in the Mid-East with the current mentality.

Iran signed the NPT. If the WESTERN POWERS (this is the EU & US) are holier than though in their goal to keep nuclear weapons out of the hands of a country whose leadership is considered to be far from rational, then I guess the UN will be holier-than-thou.

Wouldn't it be nice if we could get this country on a fuel-cell/bio-fuel/nuclear/renewable energy economy? Wouldn't it be nice to tell the ME & Iran to "screw off, we don't need you to survive anymore."

If you don't see the danger of a nuclear Iran, you don't have to close your eyes when a nuke goes off. You are already blind.

[subtle plague]

whoa politics

as an european hippie i have lots and lots to say: pad! pad? pad.

but when the gulf coast and large parts of florida start to vanish in the next 50 years, people might realize that freaky muslim states were not the most urgent problem of the beginning 21st century

[ak_powder_monkey]

lets let isreal and iran duke it out and get the fuck out of the god damn middle east for gods sake oh wait our presidents finances (aside from the 400,000 dollars he gets a year to be president) are all there so getting the fuck out of there would screw him over financially

[Cono Este]

Actually its been the Europeans who have been putting the presure on Iran the last few years. Because they like Russia and China have an interest, an intrest in not getting nuked. The Chinese just invested 100 billion in Iran, what do you want them to say?

Summit you forgot to mention that Iran has been lieing like a desperate Meth head the whole way.

I love how many people bash the religous types then find it perfectly acceptable for some of the most outspoken and crazy ones to develop a nuke for "respect"?

I guess its like the far left version of Martydom. Let some crazy fundamentalist Islamo types develop a bomb because they hate Bush.

[Free Range Lobster]

Of course, in other news, everyone will get a $100 rebate to buy gas. Why?
Because, as Bush says, "America is addicted to oil."

Yes and this money is attached to the DRILLING ANWR bill.

[MassLiberal]

Summit, I would point out that the United States has withdrawn from the NPT, therefore essentially destroying its efficacy.

[Free Range Lobster]

I beg to differ:since the 79 revolution, Iran has been the worlds largest supporter & financer of Terrorism.They've had 25 years to put their network in place & I wouldn't be suprised if they gave any number of weapons at their disposal to their "field operatives" if they thought an attack was coming.

You mean by threatening to wipe the Taliban off the face of the earth when they were in control of Afghanistan for the first time?

Yeah, huge supporter of terrorism.

I'm glad to see plenty of people are spewing their brains out with heresay and bullshit pulled off Fox etc. while backing nothing up with fact.

And I'm pretty sure if you do the math, the US is the largest supporter of "terrorism"

Put Hussein in power.
Left Afghanistan ripe for the Taliban to take over.
Pumped billions into Afghanistan in weapons, vehicles, and training.
For fucks sake go take a history course or something.

[Bandogge]

"And I'm pretty sure if you do the math, the US is the largest supporter of "terrorism""

Amen to that. Though I guess one can understand why GB chose not to include the US within the "axis of evil"... lol