Farewell German Gotamas!

[Alpinist]

Brand-new, still-wrapped Gotamas 05/06 183cm just arrived in the mail. What a relief when I saw those words in the boards: MADE IN GERMANY.

Words that future generations of skiers will never knew existed....

[Powder Ho]

I have a pair of Volkl ax4's still in plastic that I bought 2 years ago. I thought about selling them, but i'm definitely keeping them now. Hope you like your goats.

[mntlion]

I have a pair of Volkl ax4's still in plastic that I bought 2 years ago. I thought about selling them, but i'm definitely keeping them now. Hope you like your goats.

188cm? if you change you mind let me know

[Bluebird]

Did I miss something? Are Gotamas being made outside of Germany now?

[Lok]

Did I miss something? Are Gotamas being made outside of Germany now?

The new 06/07 version is made in China. At least that's what I've heard.

[Alpinist]

The new 06/07 version is made in China. At least that's what I've heard.

And white. Yuuuuuuuk

They way I see it as new models become just part of the regular lineup (07/08 Mantras, Karmas, AC4) they will all be made in China. The future new models will come out of Straubing...for a couple of seasons, and then the cycle begins again. So stock up in 05/06 Gotamas.

[pechelman]

Is the whole german made thing really that much of an issue on volkls?
Granted you lose the "comfort" or whatever it is you get by not having a ski made in China\Taiwan\Wherever, but if its made well its made well. The only argument I could possibly see for location is if its made in the US and you want to support people like PMGear.

I ask this question because of the somewhat questionable construction we've all read and heard about with this years Mantra.

[Spats]

This is becoming standard practice with many companies.

New products are made locally for a year or two, so that they can make design changes or address manufacturing issues quickly. (It's tough to go back and forth across an ocean with engineering change orders.) Then, once the company feels confident that the product and its manufacturing process are dialed in, they go to China and say "Make me thousands more, exactly like this one," because volume production costs so much less there.

There isn't usually a quality issue anymore, either. In electronics manufacturing, for instance, the Chinese have much better technology for mass production than we do.

There are, however, moral issues.

[schindlerpiste]

Germans don't really value homegrown products. There is a joke in Germany. It goes something like "Made in Germany" really means "Made BY TURKS in Germany". In Germany, "Turks" are thought of the same way "China" is perceived by Americans. Having said that, I like my skis, cars and appliances to be of German origin.

[sevensixfive]

"Made in China" isn't the dirty word it used to be.

[Alpinist]

"Made in China" isn't the dirty word it used to be.

In part I agree, and it will be much better in the future. But in manufacturing (as in anything in life) there is a learning curve, and ultimately it is the consumers that pay the price for that "education".

Look at some other "recent" cases: In the 50s and 60s anything printed "MADE IN JAPAN" was percieved as (and usually, not always, but usually was) a piece of trash. Anything bought now that says MADE IN JAPAN is über plus ultra quality. I guess that with MADE IN CHINA right now we are somewhere as we were with MADE IN JAPAN in the late 60s and early 70's. But not all industries transfer geographically their manufacturing know-how at the same speed: it heavily relies on the volume numbers of the industry. READ NEXT POST.

[Alpinist]

There isn't usually a quality issue anymore, either. In electronics manufacturing, for instance, the Chinese have much better technology for mass production than we do.

Might be that Chinese have better manufacturing technology for most TRULY mass production industries: consumer electronics, semiconductors, steel, cars, food, textile. So I agree that Quality is not an issue here.

This is not the case of the ski industry. China does not have NOWADAYS the years of expertise, knowhow and technology in the ski manufacturing industry that Euros have. PERIOD.

Additionally, the ski manufacturing industry does not remotely have the turnover numbers of the above mentioned industries and IT WILL NEVER HAVE THEM. Still it's more of a specialized than a mass production industry. So in these cases of specialized low turnover industries, manufacturing know-how is harder to achieve and transfer, hence quality is harder to achieve and control.

Just to put my argument above in perspective I'll give you an extreme case of an industry of specialized low turnover manufacturing, luxury watches: I don't see Patek Phillipe starting to manufacture their watches in China anytime soon.

[Alpinist]

Having said that, I like my skis, cars and appliances to be of German origin.

You are not alone...who doesn't?

[Conundrum]

This is not the case of the ski industry. China does not have NOWADAYS the years of expertise, knowhow and technology in the ski manufacturing industry that Euros have. PERIOD.

Be careful with this statement. It isn't always about how the skis are made versus what they are made out of. China may not have the expertise in ski building but they may have expertise in the new, exotic materials going into skis now. Case in point: DP skis.

[irul&ublo]

http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/s...t=gotama+china

[schindlerpiste]

. Having said that, I like my skis, cars and appliances to be of German origin.

OOooops! I better add woman to the list, before Mrs. Schindler reads this. Otherwise, kein bumsen fur ein monat.

[Arty50]

Just to put my argument above in perspective I'll give you an extreme case of an industry of specialized low turnover manufacturing, luxury watches: I don't see Patek Phillipe starting to manufacture their watches in China anytime soon.

Extreme is correct. There is absolutely no correlation between laying up a ski and making a hand built mechanism which requires incredible precision. You might as well compare a pair of rollerskates to a turbine engine.

You want to make a good comparison? I'd say that laying up a ski is about as complicated as plastic molding. Look at almost any plastic part made, and you'll know that the Chinese have the latter down cold.

The key here is where the ski is being designed. That's still happening in Germany, and so the rest is kinda pointless.

[irul&ublo]

Having said that, I like my....appliances to be of German origin.

Don't worry Schindler...the LS9000 is still made in Schtuppgart.

[cj001f]

The key here is where the ski is being designed. That's still happening in Germany, and so the rest is kinda pointless.

Design will follow manufacturing. For skis especially, it's the easy part. Look at your laptop. Increasignly designed in Taiwan, almost exclusively made in taiwan or some other eastern country. The american company just handles the marketing and finance side (Dell). The outdoor industry will, and is starting to see the same.

[Alpinist]

Be careful with this statement. It isn't always about how the skis are made versus what they are made out of. China may not have the expertise in ski building but they may have expertise in the new, exotic materials going into skis now. Case in point: DP skis.

Material expertise is industry specific. If China were the leader in magnesium and titanium manufacturing will still not help them if they don't know how to put that on a ski to work effectively. Last time I've checked, R&D is still done in Europe. Or in the US in the case of K2.

[Alpinist]

http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/s...t=gotama+china

Thanks for reminding me but I've already read that post two weeks ago. AND let me add it was one of the main reasons I've bought the 05/06 model. TGR can be fountain of wisdom...sometimes

[Alpinist]

You want to make a good comparison? I'd say that laying up a ski is about as complicated as plastic molding. Look at almost any plastic part made, and you'll know that the Chinese have the latter down cold.

The key here is where the ski is being designed. That's still happening in Germany, and so the rest is kinda pointless.

Well, first building skis is not ONLY as complicated as plastic moulding. If it only were that you wouldn't see skis with carbon/wood cores, titanium sheets, magnesium power channels, beta technology, i.chip technology, etc, etc, etc.

Second, R&D is key but is not the only key issue for the reasons I mentioned in the above posts.

and third, if you are happy with your MADE IN CHINA Gotamas and K2 skis good for you. Some people still prefer the original stuff.

[Alpinist]

Design will follow manufacturing. For skis especially, it's the easy part. Look at your laptop. Increasignly designed in Taiwan, almost exclusively made in taiwan or some other eastern country. The american company just handles the marketing and finance side (Dell). The outdoor industry will, and is starting to see the same.

Unfortunately, I believe that's the trend. Again, good case in point are post-war Japan and Taiwan in consumer electronics and PCs.

[Arty50]

Well, first building skis is not ONLY as complicated as plastic moulding. If it only were that you wouldn't see skis with carbon/wood cores, titanium sheets, magnesium power channels, beta technology, i.chip technology, etc, etc, etc.

Yeah, but Volkl doesn't do most of that crap. We're talking about basic wood core skis here with the occasional titanal stips/sheets.

[Alpinist]

Yeah, but Volkl doesn't do most of that crap. We're talking about basic wood core skis here with the occasional titanal stips/sheets.

You said:

I'd say that laying up a ski is about as complicated as plastic molding.

You didn't say "I'd say that laying up a "Völkl" ski is about as complicated as plastic molding". So you were talking about the ski industry in general and not of a particular brand in particular.

Nevertheless, it is not just a "basic wood core with the occasional titanal stips/sheets". Check out how a Völkl Sensorwood core is made. Here, this might help: http://www.volkl.com/ski/ski_tech.html

P.S.: There is nothing "ocassional" about titanium. You make it sound like you can buy the stuff at Home Depot...