Gimme a stiffy in the foot. AT style

[kidwoo]

Hey Kidwoo--
Sorry to hear about your troubles. Tough situation (and there's never enough $$).

Given the foot probs, maybe a softer boot would be helpful for you...something like a Dynafit TLT. I've used the TLT4Pros for long tours (multi-day in the Sierras), and they're great for skinning comfort. They are soft, but I have skied Dana Couloir, Solstice, Ripper, Coke Chute, Laurel & Redd Slate with them....so it is possible.

Anyway, you should be able to pick up a softer pair for cheaper than the "high-end" ski mountaineering boots.

What size shell do you generally wear?

I've gotta say that comfort on the tour should probably be the biggest consideration if going on those long ones. Pain seems to increase exponentially when you can't get a real rest at home each night.

Haha.....everything you just listed except for red slate and ripper is on the agenda once the corn gets corny....

I did a plateau/couloir descent last year with the same setup I've got now. Livable but I couldn't wait to get out of the boots.

Those tlts seem like noodles compared to what else is out there. I stopped by a shop yesterday and tried on a few different brands. Cranked and leaning on those didn't really impress me. The adrenalins did however, might have to go that route. Kind of hard to figure out if I'll run into the same problems one the liner is cooked since they all come with thermos now. I'm in decent shape so I can live with a "little" more weight, regardless of the size of the hikes as long as it's not full on dh boot heavy.

Putting the foam strip along the 6th toe area you mentioned earlier is something I should have done/will do in the future.

Corndog:
I've got 3 pairs of skis with fritchis and have been touring/hiking anywhere from 100% to 40% for my turns over the last 5 years so I'm not in any big hurry to get a dynafit setup. Not anytime soon anyway. I'm not starting a full setup from scratch. The priority Like I said earlier was just getting a decent SKIING boot for now. I've never had a complaint with my lowas, unbuckled and hiking for hours. Heel security and all that is fine. It's just the buckled down descents I've had to live with since they've packed out, which has been doable for 2-3 laps at most of the local hikes I do.

I'm swinging by cosmo's today at luch to see if he has any ideas. But right now, I'm about to just give up on the shells. (Size 25.5 btw)

I know I'm starting to sound like a little bitch but again, I appreciate all the responses.

......to be continued..........

[upallnight]

Those tlts seem like noodles compared to what else is out there. I stopped by a shop yesterday and tried on a few different brands. Cranked and leaning on those didn't really impress me. The adrenalins did however, might have to go that route. Kind of hard to figure out if I'll run into the same problems one the liner is cooked since they all come with thermos now. I'm in decent shape so I can live with a "little" more weight, regardless of the size of the hikes as long as it's not full on dh boot heavy.

Oh, yeah...no arguments from me there. Can't really compare the Adrenaline (or similar) boot to the TLT4 series in skiing performance -- I was merely saying that the TLT4's are great for long tours (Dana plateau is not really a long tour -- I just listed a few things to show what can be skied with even such a noodly boot)....and you are practically running uphill in them compared to any other boot.

I am no stranger to heavier AT boots; I have climbed and skied Denali (Messner & Orient Express) in them....so it's a lot of hiking/skinning + fairly serious descents.

That said the TLT4 has its place. I apologize if I misread or misinterpreted some info in your posts.

I'd still steer you toward a Dynafit compatible boot (over, say, the Denali or Adrenaline) if you are going to buy a new one as it will be more versatile should you decide to go the Dynafit binding route (which does save huge weight & is still quite reliable for serious descents). Going the Dynafit boot route will give you more options for the future, whereas, say, an Adrenaline will limit you in future binding selection (but no doubt be a good inbound/out-of-bounds shoe).

Like I said, a modified MegaRide is my shoe of choice for every single day. I don't think any boot matches it in terms of *overall* performance...although it can be outclassed in any single dimension by other boots.

[kidwoo]

.....more good info......

Jesus man.......any cool outings in north america you HAVEN'T skied?

I hear you on the future desire for dynafits. I'd be a fool to not appreciate the weight savings. But other than just the current status quo, I've still never been on a hike with anyone who has them who hasn't cursed at them for half an hour while I'm sitting there waiting for them to get their skis back on in deep snow (hi Marc ).

So today the mighty cosmo clarified through science (ie a ball peen hammer and the redness on my feet) the squeeze I was getting out of the intuitions. He's got the boots in his hydraulic press toy overnight. We'll see what comes of it tomorrow..........

He said he'd do that and throw in some stiffer tounges for $20 which is the last I'm dumping into these things. If that doesn't do it..........back on the hunt. I'm not going to nickel and dime my way to the cost of a new pair.

You ever make it down this way any more?

[upallnight]

I've still never been on a hike with anyone who has them who hasn't cursed at them for half an hour while I'm sitting there waiting for them to get their skis back on in deep snow (hi Marc ).

jeezus...sounds like a nightmare. Do you actually *wait* for them on a powder day??

next time it happens, tell them to consider stomping a platform before removing their ski. This hasn't happened to me (knock on wood), but it's probably only because I only ski hardpack.

You ever make it down this way any more?

Haen't been back in the California other than business trips to SF in a couple of years. Would definitely love to....many incredible descents in the E Sierras are still on my list....

[kidwoo]

jeezus...sounds like a nightmare. Do you actually *wait* for them on a powder day??

next time it happens, tell them to consider stomping a platform before removing their ski. This hasn't happened to me (knock on wood), but it's probably only because I only ski hardpack.....

Actally when we reach the summit, most of the guys I ride with including myself just a swan dive head first into the snow. One guy gets deemed "the outfitter" and has to take our skins off and lock down our heels and pull us out before we suffocate.

How do you do it?










I know they work but come on, I'm not the only one who's seen it.
I said I could appreciate the benefits though.

Ok.

REVIEW TIME FOR MEGARIDES + DYNAFITS


Then the next 10 minutes was utter cursing.
The bindings just wouldn lock the heel.
Nope. I cleaned the inserts about 20 times,locked the toe and tried to lock the heel. Nada. Nothing. No locking.
Standing on a 40´ slope with some 30cm of grainy snow on the top of the ice and i just couldnt make a solid enough platform. After frantic kickings i finally met the ice underneath and with jumping up/down on the ice the heel finally clicked.

The skiing itself was so shitty i cant say anything about the bindings on that.But at least no releases or anything.

A (C+)


Well,the bindings seem to be really difficult to put on anything but a solid,stable platform (unless i have a shitty technicue,wich i know i have... ). Any pointers in that?

Eh?

[flip]

I've still never been on a hike with anyone who has them who hasn't cursed at them for half an hour while I'm sitting there waiting for them to get their skis back on in deep snow (hi Marc ).

That was just the first hike, you douche. They've been nothing but solid and easy since I broke in the tab.

[flip]

Actally when we reach the summit, most of the guys I ride with including myself just a swan dive head first into the snow. One guy gets deemed "the outfitter" and has to take our skins off and lock down our heels and pull us out before we suffocate.

You mean you actually take OFF your skins? What a waste of time.

Douche.

[kidwoo]

That's a lot of douche'in

You ain't the only one I know with dynafits son.

You comin up this weekend or what?

EDIT: and cut out the cleansing narrative......ew

[SPREAD EAGLE]

If you are not using the Dynafit and have Naxo's or Fritschi's then check out the Salomon E2. A different AT boot but rated highest in Big Mountain AT performance by Skiing Mag this season. (Skiing December 2005, pg. 167)

"The E2 is a reasonably stiff alpine boot with a walk/ski mode toggle, and we were curious to see how it stacked up against traditional AT boots. The upshot: its downhill performance was the category's best, and its lugged sole was nice for boot packing. Tip#1 They run big so consider downsizing. Tip #2 If you're touring a bunch, ditch the heavy alpine-style liner in favor of an aftermarket heat moldable liner."

I agree that the E2 is stiff and allows me to rock in the BC. I am going to take the advice of the testers and throw in thermo liners next year because they are light and heat moldable.

My only grip is that they are a fairly narrow last although it is good for downhill performance. I am a 6th toe victim (both feet) and so I use neoprene donut inserts in my socks to keep from getting unwanted agitation on those bone spurs. Otherwise the boot rocks and rolls and skins and skis and digs and climbs and I compare it to my bro's AT boots all the time.

The other great thing is that it retails for $450.00 USD which is less than the Naxo binding. We received one pair in our shop last fall and I wanted to try it out but didn't to start. We had it priced at $65.00 bones and nobody bought it. Later the report came from Skiing mag so I took it home that day and have loved it ever since.

I have skied steeps to deep with confidence in this boot and there is no need to worry about walk mode release with this toggle. Also I have been on 10-12 hour tours without having cold feet or pains from the boot.

Check them out.

[kidwoo]

If you are not using the Dynafit and have Naxo's or Fritschi's then check out the Salomon E2. .

Thanks for the heads up. Never would have even looked for a salomon.

I actually just paid for a pair of used adrenalins from someone in gear swap. Hopefully I can make those work. I do have the intuitions I just bought so between those and the g2 liners, I may be able to find something functional. At least till next season. If not, I'll definitely check those out. Most of my bike/ski buddies work at a few shops here that do lots of rentals so I may be able to hunt those down if need be. (hopefully not)

[upallnight]

I agree that the E2 is stiff and allows me to rock in the BC. I am going to take the advice of the testers and throw in thermo liners next year because they are light and heat moldable.

My only grip is that they are a fairly narrow last although it is good for downhill performance. I am a 6th toe victim (both feet) and so I use neoprene donut inserts in my socks to keep from getting unwanted agitation on those bone spurs. Otherwise the boot rocks and rolls and skins and skis and digs and climbs and I compare it to my bro's AT boots all the time.

important point:
when you throw down for the thermo liners, be sure to add a neoprene strip at the 6th toe area (in addition to a toe cap) so you wind up with more room there and don't have to either (a) deal w/ the pain or (b) deal with the neoprene donut every day.

you'll love it!

[kidwoo]

important point:
when you throw down for the thermo liners, be sure to add a neoprene strip at the 6th toe area (in addition to a toe cap) so you wind up with more room there and don't have to either (a) deal w/ the pain or (b) deal with the neoprene donut every day.

you'll love it!

Do you cup the whole area or just do a strip on the side/top etc?

[bad_roo]

Anybody ever seen/skied these Salomon E2s?

[LeeLau]

Anybody ever seen/skied these Salomon E2s?

badroo - you have to special order them as they're actually a rental boot designed to be softer. Apparently they're still stiffer then an Adrenaline. I don't fit Saloman's so I never tried them. The friend i know who tried them is about 200 lbs and he just tours short distances so he liked them.

If you can get hold of ski_rick I recall he had some information on them. If i recall it even had lace up liners and some sort of walk mode

[upallnight]

Do you cup the whole area or just do a strip on the side/top etc?

I do a toe cap....and separately a strip down the 6th toe.

[kidwoo]

I do a toe cap....and separately a strip down the 6th toe.

Sorry, guess I wasn't clear....

I got the toe cap piece but wasn't sure what side of the sixth toe area you bulk up.....just the outside or enough of a strip to cover a bit of the top and/or bottom as well?

I've got sort of an extended 6th toe area that reaches back about two thirds of the length of my foot. My ancestry can be found deep in the annals of badass barefoot water skiers apparently. It's almost like a wing. Got much worse with some broken bones in each foot last year.

The result is this wing thing gets pinched in my at boots underneath a buckle. The pressure is from the top as well as the side.

I'd think that in my case some bulk above would also be good but at the same time.......at what point does this create a too big of a void leading to a liner that's too big with buckles that need to be overly cranked?

Sorry to be so anal but just wanted to better understand where exactly you put the extra material.

[kidwoo]

Anybody ever seen/skied these Salomon E2s?

http://www.skithe14ers.com/p-mt-massive.php

On another note, many of you have asked what equipment I am using. Right now I'm on Salomon 174 Foil skis and Salomon E2 boots, with Fritschi Freeride bindings. These E2 boots ski great (better than any rando boot I've tried)and have a solid ski/ walk mode and a nice soft sole for hiking.

Found an "ellipse" and a "verse" E2 (bout 3/4 down the page)
http://www.sportsgearguide.com/scrip....asp?b=Salomon

Sounds like the ellipse is the goods

http://forums.epicski.com/showthread.php?t=32748

[upallnight]

Sorry, guess I wasn't clear....

I got the toe cap piece but wasn't sure what side of the sixth toe area you bulk up.....just the outside or enough of a strip to cover a bit of the top and/or bottom as well?

No problem.

I only add a strip to the outside. Here's why: When you don't have the strip when you mold, the liner is formed pretty snug to your foot, width-wise. As you tour/ski, your foot wants to spread out, but it can't. The outside/6th toe gets squeezed and feels sore on the side AND top (pressure from the side from not being wide enough + pressure from the top from the buckle).

When you put the strip in there, you get the width you need, so the foot does not "roll" or "curl" -- meaning it never gets squeezed from the top. So, the issue is that the soreness on top is a secondary problem caused by insufficient width.

That's the rationale, and it's worked for me for some time (but I def don't have the foot woes that you have).


That help?

[kidwoo]

That help?

Absolutely.

The curl explanation makes a lot of sense.

[SPREAD EAGLE]

Quote:
Originally Posted by bad_roo
Anybody ever seen/skied these Salomon E2s?
Quote:
badroo - you have to special order them as they're actually a rental boot designed to be softer. Apparently they're still stiffer then an Adrenaline. I don't fit Saloman's so I never tried them. The friend i know who tried them is about 200 lbs and he just tours short distances so he liked them.

If you can get hold of ski_rick I recall he had some information on them. If i recall it even had lace up liners and some sort of walk mode."

I SKI THEM alot and love them. Thanks for the input upallnight about the thermoliners. I am going to love them when they get dialed in next fall.

Let me know if you need more beta people from someone who has tried and loved this boot.

P.S. there is an eclipse model or something with a lace up shell but rest assured my E2 is three buckel aluminum with micro adjustment and walk mode. The thing is bomber and doesn't suck at the same time

[ski_rick]

Noticed the other evening while browsing around Chris Davenport's 14ers site that he posted a gear list:

http://skithe14ers.com/p-mt-harvard.php

saying he's using the Salomon Ellipse 9 (E2) boots. The Ellipse 9 appears to be a 3 buckle Alpine Boot with a walk mode and lace up liner that can be found for pretty cheap if you look around. I picked up a pair to compare to my Tornados.

[upallnight]

Noticed the other evening while browsing around Chris Davenport's 14ers site that he posted a gear list:

http://skithe14ers.com/p-mt-harvard.php

saying he's using the Salomon Ellipse 9 (E2) boots. The Ellipse 9 appears to be a 3 buckle Alpine Boot with a walk mode and lace up liner that can be found for pretty cheap if you look around. I picked up a pair to compare to my Tornados.

No mention of bindings in his gear list...To ski all those 14'ers w/o bindings is super-rad!!

Are the E2's Dynafit-compatible?

[kidwoo]

Noticed the other evening while browsing around Chris Davenport's 14ers site that he posted a gear list:

http://skithe14ers.com/p-mt-harvard.php

saying he's using the Salomon Ellipse 9 (E2) boots. The Ellipse 9 appears to be a 3 buckle Alpine Boot with a walk mode and lace up liner that can be found for pretty cheap if you look around. I picked up a pair to compare to my Tornados.

Ahem......(4 posts up)

http://www.skithe14ers.com/p-mt-massive.php

In MY quote he mentions freerides.

O'doyle rules!!!


Somebody mentioned you as having these a while back. Where did you find them? Lemme see'em tomorrow. Don't know about the ski boots but salomon snowboard boots are the only things that fit me flawlessly.

UAN: no dynafit compatibility. They're just low end alpine boots. They sound like they're modeled after AT boots for beginner comfort or some such thing from what I could find on them.

[upallnight]

Ahem......(4 posts up)



In MY quote he mentions freerides.

You expect me to read prior posts????

[ski_rick]

Chris's second post about equipment is the first one I've seen confirming/claiming that the "E2" is an Ellipse 9. I emailed Salomon at the start of the season and was told the E2 is a boot/binding system that could be ordered from them:

http://forums.epicski.com/showpost.p...7&postcount=11

(I guess I never posted that info on this board as I can't find it). My understanding is the rubber sole won't work in a normal binding, just the special E2 binding. I got a pair of Ellipse 9s here and they have a sole for an Alpine binding (actually, it kinda looks like the Tornado sole). But other then that and the color, it looks like the pics of the E2s, 3 buckles, walk mode, etc.